2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[longmile]

You'd think we'd go for Mac Andrew with our first round pick. Looks like he could be a great ruck aspect and can spend a few years under Hickey. I wonder if there is any danger with him going back to Melbourne as he's a Melbourne NGA Academy pick?

And I'm well aware people here have already made a McAndrew and Mac Andrew joke

[Ralph Dawg]

Yes, Heaney is an impact player and shouldn’t be used in midfield other than for short bursts if needed- we need him in the forward line 90% of the time.

I hope none of our wanted players leave. It is a professional game, I know, and players have every right to look for the best deal and transfers to rival clubs has been with us since Adam and Eve. However, I always found it a bit strange that a player has been involved in battle with his team mates for a fairly long time and then goes to a rival club and embraces a new culture and mates and then plays against his old team. He sings the new club song- how does this work? It’s not like changing jobs as you are joining the enemy. Having said that, there is a lot of camaraderie between teams as we see after games when players have such friendly chats- I think this is very commendable but during the game they are enemies!

So I can’t see Parks leaving unless our salary cap is so stuffed that we can’t make a fair and reasonable offer. Same goes for Dawson. Same for George- he is good value. I’d rather not “buy” anyone but keep what we’ve got. Sign Paddy for the backline and then rely on the draft- certainly no more fringe from other clubs unless a marquee player wants to come to us. Our squad is looking great and needs to be kept intact- even Sammy!

I disagree on Heeney - he's only young and with a good run, can build into one of the elite midfielders.

Re not signing any fringe players from elsewhere, totally agree. This talk about Lipinski and Billings is just ridiculous. It's clear our current batch is at least as talented as these two, most in my opinion ahead. We shouldn't even be wasting our time talking to guys like this when we have players still unsigned, in particular a guy like Hewett would be asking for similar cash or Stephens who would be asking less.

Like you RR, I'd just be happy to keep all our current best 22 and up and coming midfielders. In terms of de-listings, can see Clarke, Gray, Ling, Brand and Ronke going. Sqizzy still has a year left so will stay as depth. Reid and Stephens high risk to be traded.

[bloodspirit]

Ludwig, no way on God's green earth is Matt Kennedy on $500K. Wasn't he de-listed and re-listed after nobody was interested in him last year? He's somewhere behind Petrevski-Seaton. I think $200K would be closer to the money and it might be less. I wondered (both last year and this year) whether we should consider him (given his NSW roots) but we don't seem to need him.

I'm keen on Mac Andrew come draft time but it seems we will be lucky if he reaches our current first pick (if you listen to Cal Twomey who generally has an excellent idea of how the first 10-15 picks will play out). Unfortunately Andrew is one of not so many tall players in this draft (which is why it's great that we cashed in on Logan McDonald when we could last year).

I don't know much about Tom Lynch (ex-Crow) and so have never been excited about him. I'm more interested in Daniel Talia. I wonder whether having Don Pyke on board will help or hinder us attracting Adelaide players (or maybe it won't make much difference).

What do people think about trading out of the first round for better future picks? While it would be better to get a good player now, we have a lot of young talent and there might be another team who values our pick more than us and would be willing to pay a premium to get it. For instance, I'd certainly consider trading it for West Coast's future first, although of course that's a gamble. WC need to start investing in the draft urgently. This would be a way that we can continue to stagger the talent on our list so it is not grouped too much around the same age group. Also the positions we need (ruck and KPP depth) are not needs that will be easily addressed with the pick we have (from what little I know).

Coach-wise, I'm very happy with the group that we have and would be happy to see us keep them. The only change I would consider is Laidler but I find it very hard to judge how good a job he's doing. Conversely I get a good vibe from Lloyd Perris but he's even younger and less experienced.

Similarly, the changes we made to our heads of performance, physio and welfare seem to be working well and I hope we can retain them all.

[Aprilbr]

I dont think Perris is still employed by us. I believe that he was part of the cull last season due to Covid cuts (along with Taigh). Our coaching line-up looks great. Laidley is hard to assess given the disrupted nature of reserves games over the past two seasons. I'm yet to be convinced by Charlie Gardner as Head of Football. Its a key role. If we do have a forced set of departures this off-season due to Cap issues he may be in trouble?

[mcs]

Ludwig, no way on God's green earth is Matt Kennedy on $500K. Wasn't he de-listed and re-listed after nobody was interested in him last year? He's somewhere behind Petrevski-Seaton. I think $200K would be closer to the money and it might be less. I wondered (both last year and this year) whether we should consider him (given his NSW roots) but we don't seem to need him.

I'm keen on Mac Andrew come draft time but it seems we will be lucky if he reaches our current first pick (if you listen to Cal Twomey who generally has an excellent idea of how the first 10-15 picks will play out). Unfortunately Andrew is one of not so many tall players in this draft (which is why it's great that we cashed in on Logan McDonald when we could last year).

I don't know much about Tom Lynch (ex-Crow) and so have never been excited about him. I'm more interested in Daniel Talia. I wonder whether having Don Pyke on board will help or hinder us attracting Adelaide players (or maybe it won't make much difference).

What do people think about trading out of the first round for better future picks? While it would be better to get a good player now, we have a lot of young talent and there might be another team who values our pick more than us and would be willing to pay a premium to get it. For instance, I'd certainly consider trading it for West Coast's future first, although of course that's a gamble. WC need to start investing in the draft urgently. This would be a way that we can continue to stagger the talent on our list so it is not grouped too much around the same age group. Also the positions we need (ruck and KPP depth) are not needs that will be easily addressed with the pick we have (from what little I know).

Coach-wise, I'm very happy with the group that we have and would be happy to see us keep them. The only change I would consider is Laidler but I find it very hard to judge how good a job he's doing. Conversely I get a good vibe from Lloyd Perris but he's even younger and less experienced.

Similarly, the changes we made to our heads of performance, physio and welfare seem to be working well and I hope we can retain them all.

I can see both sides of the story re: our first pick this year. If we use it and recruit to fill a gap, then it gives them 12 months in the system before (at least in theory) we may have a little space to play with in terms of 'topping up' the gaps in the squad (Assuming that if Buddy goes on, he will be on a lot less than $900K - but likewise we have a lot of good players that will need new contracts) - so will have some idea of whether we still need to recruit in that space or not. Alternatively, we may see it as a chance to bank some future currency by trading it, taking a chance on a couple of lower draft picks this year (i.e. the lucky dip approach), and having a really strong hand next year when it comes to trade/draft time - which would provide currency both if we want to go to the draft, or if we want to be ambitious and potentially trade for a big name or two.

[Ludwig]

Heeney, as good a player as he is, does not have the body to withstand the bash and crash of the midfield. I don't think he is yet to play a season without some form of significant injury. An occasional impact player in the middle but not every week.

Interestingly, the inside mids are often the most durable, at least on the Swans. Parker and JPK have been 2 of our most durable players. I like Heeney as one of several 'everywhere' players the Swans have, who can see time in the midfield, both inside and on the wing as well as forward. Dawson would be another in this category.

I like your thinking. I've always rated Tom Lynch of the Adelaide variety. Very under rated. !

I've been a big fan of Tom Lynch as well, and was upset that we didn't recruit him when he was there for the taking. As much as I like Lynch, I think the time has passed, because the Swans are filled with transition players, like Lynch, now, so he would only take the place of some younger player who needs the senior time for development.

You'd think we'd go for Mac Andrew with our first round pick. Looks like he could be a great ruck aspect and can spend a few years under Hickey. I wonder if there is any danger with him going back to Melbourne as he's a Melbourne NGA Academy pick?

And I'm well aware people here have already made a McAndrew and Mac Andrew joke

Would be in the mix, except that he's likely to go top 10, before we get to pick.

[Ludwig]

Ludwig, no way on God's green earth is Matt Kennedy on $500K. Wasn't he de-listed and re-listed after nobody was interested in him last year? He's somewhere behind Petrevski-Seaton. I think $200K would be closer to the money and it might be less. I wondered (both last year and this year) whether we should consider him (given his NSW roots) but we don't seem to need him.


What do people think about trading out of the first round for better future picks? While it would be better to get a good player now, we have a lot of young talent and there might be another team who values our pick more than us and would be willing to pay a premium to get it. For instance, I'd certainly consider trading it for West Coast's future first, although of course that's a gamble. WC need to start investing in the draft urgently. This would be a way that we can continue to stagger the talent on our list so it is not grouped too much around the same age group. Also the positions we need (ruck and KPP depth) are not needs that will be easily addressed with the pick we have (from what little I know).

.

Yes. You must be right on Matt Kennedy. I was thinking that he must have been offered a big contract when recruited from GWS, but forget that he was delisted and now must be close to what you say. I thought he was on a longer term deal. Thanks for the correction.

I think it's definitely worth entertaining trading our 1st pick into next year, especially if we get a 2nd round compo pick if George Hewett leaves. I would like to get another KPP in the first round, but there aren't many this year. It depends how we rate a few of the KPPs rated around the 20 mark this year. The general principle you state about letting some air in between recent drafts to give time for current players to develop is a good one, as evidenced by the difficulty of getting games into Stephens and Gould.

[rb4x]

I dont think Perris is still employed by us. I believe that he was part of the cull last season due to Covid cuts (along with Taigh). Our coaching line-up looks great. Laidley is hard to assess given the disrupted nature of reserves games over the past two seasons. I'm yet to be convinced by Charlie Gardner as Head of Football. Its a key role. If we do have a forced set of departures this off-season due to Cap issues he may be in trouble?

Last I heard Perris was coaching at Knox but of course with Covid nothing is happening there.

[Bangalore Swans]

I like your thinking. I've always rated Tom Lynch of the Adelaide variety. Very under rated. Obviously the preference is to keep Parker but if we lose him, then it will accelerate Heeney's transition into an AA midfielder. Also if Parker goes, it will mean we are dead certs to retain Dawson and Hewett. A future midfield of Mills, Heeney, Chad, Hewett, RB, Dawson, Ollie, JMac, Errol and Campbell doesn't look too bad.............

But even better with Parker - the guy is a champion!

Another Parker contingency idea.

Heeney to midfield full time and bring in Jack Silvagni from Carlton to play half forward. The Blues haven’t signed him.

I think he’s a talanted footballer who would not cost much salary cap or draft capital. May improve a lot due to a stable environment and playing away from a club where family expectation was massive. Just ask Josh Kennedy about moving away from an environment where your grandfather and father were legends. It can work out well.

[NeonBible]

Hi all,

Love the thoughtful and energised discussions above! Very interesting times as we approach a premiership window sooner than we had expected!! Do we go big at trade time, or put our faith in the list we have been building for a few years now?? Pros and cons to both! I lean towards keeping the faith in our current list. Let's see what they can do before we make any big decisions!
The midfield debate is interesting.. we have two very young but exciting mids in Chad & Rowy.. plus some others who have been tried in there in a nod to the future.. Gulden, Campbell etc. Maybe they are the backbone of our next great midfield.. maybe they aren't.. I think Chad looks as close to a sure thing as we can get.. the rest a little more speculative. Gulden is certainly talented but his size may be a factor against him.. But we won't know until we try them. Give them 2 to 3 years to learn off each other while we still have Parker around to show them the way, and if by that time they don't look like they will have 'it', we can look at a Lipinski, Billings, Kennedy type. Those sorts of cheap mids are always available..

That is just my two cents.. looking forward to another off season of frenzied discussion with you all!

CHEER CHEER

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Very interesting times as we approach a premiership window sooner than we had expected!!

WHo is this "we"?
There was an off season conversation on RWO where it was suggested that the parrallels were such that 2021 would be our 2003, and 2023 would be our 2005.

[Faunac8]

Hi all,

Gulden is certainly talented but his size may be a factor against him.



CHEER CHEER

Boomer Harvey says hold my beer????

[mcs]

Another Parker contingency idea.

Heeney to midfield full time and bring in Jack Silvagni from Carlton to play half forward. The Blues haven’t signed him.

I think he’s a talanted footballer who would not cost much salary cap or draft capital. May improve a lot due to a stable environment and playing away from a club where family expectation was massive. Just ask Josh Kennedy about moving away from an environment where your grandfather and father were legends. It can work out well.

To be fair, Kennedy left hawthorn in search of sustained 1st team opportunities, not to escape the weight of 'family expectation' or similar.

[Markwebbos]

Gulden is a very smart player. He comprehensively out bodied Lukosius on Saturday to take a mark. And I seem to remember a great spoil in defence a few weeks back on a player twice his size.

He’s already got a tank too.

[NeonBible]

Gulden is a very smart player. He comprehensively out bodied Lukosius on Saturday to take a mark. And I seem to remember a great spoil in defence a few weeks back on a player twice his size.

He’s already got a tank too.

Hi markwebbos,

By no means am i knocking Gulden's ability.. he is a fantastic player in every facet! In heart and mind he could be an excellent midfielder! But when the whips are cracking we will need hardened, big bodies who are made for the contest! Gulden could do this in rotations, maybe even for a half .. but i doubt we will ever see him at 20 centre bounces like lads such as Chad and Rowy.. their bodies are made for that and that is where they thrive!

The Boomer Harvey comparison was a good one heh.. but it is a different era now .. the brutes like Oliver and Petracca and Bontempelli would monster Harvey ..

I like the idea of a 50/50 split with Gulden.. having a red hot crack in the contest.. and being given plenty of space off a forward flank or a wing.. he could be what we had hoped young Stephens would be??