2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[AB Swannie]

Goater looks better to me....more skills and dynamism but either would be good.

Goater is flashier and has great burst but his skills are actually only average, particularly his kicking.

Personally, if they were all available at our pick, I’d take van Rooyen, Sinn, and Goater in that order but would be excited by all.

[liz]

Goater is flashier and has great burst but his skills are actually only average, particularly his kicking.

That's being generous. (Though I guess it depends on the population against which you're comparing his skills/kicking. Include me, and his are way above average.)

[TheBloods]

Time will tell.

I know COVID has thrown a huge spanner in the works but as a rule we know of any academy guns way well in advance.

Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Gulden and Campbell were all highly touted more than 12 months out. They may well have a great year but they're equally as likely to go the way of kids like Nick Brewer, Jackson Barling and Josh Rayner....

I saw a lot of Rayner , liked him as a teenager . You could see the moment it stopped clicking for him , didnt have the work rate or hunger to make it , thats OK . No shame in it. My nephew was similar ,our family had a lot of hopes for him and had a few recruiters taking notes on him . Got to about yr 11/12 and he got left behind big time , . That final yr before the draft can be a make or break one that separates the casual talents from the pros

[Velour&Ruffles]

OK I’ve completely changed my mind. I really want us to find a long term partner for Logan. If we do that we can really set up for a decade. Someone earlier in the thread said that you don’t need two tall forwards. That’s very rarely true (I’m looking at you LRT 2012) because….
Riewoldt/ Lynch
Brown/McDonald
Kennedy/Darling
O’Loughlin/Hall
Franklin/Roughead
A. Lynch/J. Brown
Lloyd and that other bastard who won a game against us in the last seconds at Colonial

I was at that game - that loss was a real heartbreaker. We literally led all day until that goal, kicked by Steven Alessio with 4 seconds left on the clock.
Alessio was more of a ruckman who could rest forward than an actual forward.
But Lloyd and Scott Lucas were certainly a very dangerous pairing of key forwards.

[i'm-uninformed2]

That's being generous. (Though I guess it depends on the population against which you're comparing his skills/kicking. Include me, and his are way above average.)

Correct. Goater looks like Elliot Yeo at his peak in some of his play, then he kicks the ball, and he looks like me.

Andrew Dunkley had him covered.

[WomblingFree]

I saw a lot of Rayner , liked him as a teenager . You could see the moment it stopped clicking for him , didnt have the work rate or hunger to make it , thats OK . No shame in it. My nephew was similar ,our family had a lot of hopes for him and had a few recruiters taking notes on him . Got to about yr 11/12 and he got left behind big time , . That final yr before the draft can be a make or break one that separates the casual talents from the pros

Despite the success of the academy system we pay an enormous amount for a relatively small benefit but it could be argued the cost of not having the academy system is worse.

For all the hysteria about the academy system and it’s rivers of talent all it does is give us a fighting chance. Top schoolboy talent will still mainly go to NRL and Union in Sydney for the foreseeable future. If anything it shows just how strong the pathways in Victoria are

[Auntie.Gerald]

i must say that the level of impact is not always two talls kicking 4 goals each ie clicking in a goal sense

Many a coach including Hardwick and Horse have said their two talls creates so many challenges for the opposition defence...........Hardwick has said Lynches role in many an interview is about team function and bringing the ball to ground for the small impact players in the forwards.

So I do agree that two talls with impaxct make it very difficult for an opposition to go to a plus 1 in defence and that means primarily man on man and then good luck to the defensive team in minimising scoring opportunities but also minimising the plus 1 rebound impact !

With Heeney sounding like he is going to a 70/30 type mid forward than we need to have Bud and McDonald as our leading talls and that can happen in 2022 you would suspect ?

2023 not so sure ?

[TheBloods]

Despite the success of the academy system we pay an enormous amount for a relatively small benefit but it could be argued the cost of not having the academy system is worse.

For all the hysteria about the academy system and it’s rivers of talent all it does is give us a fighting chance. Top schoolboy talent will still mainly go to NRL and Union in Sydney for the foreseeable future. If anything it shows just how strong the pathways in Victoria are

Its changing , mark my words . Will take time. Academy was always going to be a long term thing and every kid we add to the team from it the better off well be . Thats 6 now , Wicks the least impressive of the lot so were going ok. Sheather will make it 7 next year .

[liz]

Correct. Goater looks like Elliot Yeo at his peak in some of his play, then he kicks the ball, and he looks like me.

Andrew Dunkley had him covered.

Even his movement through traffic - probably the most appealing part of his package - reminds me more of Leo Barry than Yeo (or Pendlebury or Bont or McCluggage or anyone else who is able to create space and time when there isn't any available to the ordinary player).

[mcs]

Despite the success of the academy system we pay an enormous amount for a relatively small benefit but it could be argued the cost of not having the academy system is worse.

For all the hysteria about the academy system and it’s rivers of talent all it does is give us a fighting chance. Top schoolboy talent will still mainly go to NRL and Union in Sydney for the foreseeable future. If anything it shows just how strong the pathways in Victoria are

Changes to build talent production lines that are regular and consistent don't happen overnight - it takes time. But what is shown by some of the other codes (in particular Union), without a long term view of the world, a world of pain can be easily reached. Rugby is really paying just desserts for not recognising it needed to move well beyond its roots to compete in the modern sporting market, and is suffering as a consequence.

I suspect the transition to a more even split of schoolboy talent may happen quicker than you think. Hopefully in time GWS will be building up the number of genuine Sydney based academy products they take (rather then the farming in model that dominated several of their first years, where the academy in essence operated like a defacto zone), and we will continue to have a steady stream of talent coming through. The critical mass point, where what the academies are producing > the abilty of the Sydney clubs to absorb said talent may be much closer then we all think.

[Aprilbr]

Changes to build talent production lines that are regular and consistent don't happen overnight - it takes time. But what is shown by some of the other codes (in particular Union), without a long term view of the world, a world of pain can be easily reached. Rugby is really paying just desserts for not recognising it needed to move well beyond its roots to compete in the modern sporting market, and is suffering as a consequence.

I suspect the transition to a more even split of schoolboy talent may happen quicker than you think. Hopefully in time GWS will be building up the number of genuine Sydney based academy products they take (rather then the farming in model that dominated several of their first years, where the academy in essence operated like a defacto zone), and we will continue to have a steady stream of talent coming through. The critical mass point, where what the academies are producing > the abilty of the Sydney clubs to absorb said talent may be much closer then we all think.

Victorian clubs would typically have half of their list, probably more, originating from that State. I guess the ultimate aim for us would be to achieve something similar with NSW? The proportion of our list from NSW has steadily increased over the past 15 years. 12 out of 44 (27%) of our players on the list last season were from NSW (not all former Academy products eg Rampe, Cunningham). Participation rates in AFL in NSW are great. Over the next 15 years we should aim to double the current proportion on our list that are from NSW. This is a stretch but not an unobtainable target.

[WomblingFree]

Victorian clubs would typically have half of their list, probably more, originating from that State. I guess the ultimate aim for us would be to achieve something similar with NSW? The proportion of our list from NSW has steadily increased over the past 15 years. 12 out of 44 (27%) of our players on the list last season were from NSW (not all former Academy products eg Rampe, Cunningham). Participation rates in AFL in NSW are great. Over the next 15 years we should aim to double the current proportion on our list that are from NSW. This is a stretch but not an unobtainable target.

Don’t get too excited about participation rates in NSW, the NSWAFL are notorious for cooking the books. Attend a school clinic and you’re a participant.

GWS has made next to no effort in genuinely investing in Sydney. Shipley and Briggs, two duds, are all they have to show. The others are Canberra and county. The state of local football in Sydney’s west reflects the neglible investment by GWS/AFL.

Having said that I agree with a previous posted that 50% of our senior list being Academy grads is the goal. I believe we’ll get there bit closer to 10 rather than 5 years. And that may not be a bad thing as it shows how much hard work it is

[Thunder Shaker]

Changes to build talent production lines that are regular and consistent don't happen overnight - it takes time. But what is shown by some of the other codes (in particular Union), without a long term view of the world, a world of pain can be easily reached. Rugby is really paying just desserts for not recognising it needed to move well beyond its roots to compete in the modern sporting market, and is suffering as a consequence.

I suspect the transition to a more even split of schoolboy talent may happen quicker than you think. Hopefully in time GWS will be building up the number of genuine Sydney based academy products they take (rather then the farming in model that dominated several of their first years, where the academy in essence operated like a defacto zone), and we will continue to have a steady stream of talent coming through. The critical mass point, where what the academies are producing > the abilty of the Sydney clubs to absorb said talent may be much closer then we all think.

The real payoff will be when players are raised in Sydney, go through the Academy system, get recruited by a non-NSW club and then return to NSW after a few years because they want to "go home".

Oh, how the other clubs will whine about that, while forgetting how many players they've all taken from Sydney since 1982.

[WomblingFree]

The real payoff will be when players are raised in Sydney, go through the Academy system, get recruited by a non-NSW club and then return to NSW after a few years because they want to "go home".

Oh, how the other clubs will whine about that, while forgetting how many players they've all taken from Sydney since 1982.

The reality is that the Swans are doing virtually all the AFL's junior development and funding it themselves.

GWS too but in a half baked manner.

[The Big Cat]

The reality is that the Swans are doing virtually all the AFL's junior development and funding it themselves.

GWS too but in a half baked manner.

Yep. Tutored a couple of GWS ‘academy products’ from rural NSW at a Victorian boarding school. They’d been to Sydney once and we’re just shown the ‘academy’. They were on football scholarships and had played footy all their lives in traditional football areas.

GWS academy = Rort.