Swans v Suns: Round 6.

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  • Captain
    Captain of the Side
    • Feb 2004
    • 3602

    Originally posted by gloveski
    And that’s my point to be elite that’s what he will have to do .He is no Dusty . Good player but not Elite . For us to go forward a player like Rowbottom has to become Elite . He’s not dynamic enough to influence a game unless he becomes a high posy mid . I’m not writing him off by all means


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Couldn’t agree more. Elite players help win premierships, not mediocre ones.

    Comment

    • longmile
      Crumber
      • Apr 2011
      • 3373

      Originally posted by mcs
      I was disappointed when Blakey got injured yesterday - only because I was intrigued to see how he would go across a full game playing a role that included time in the ruck. Actually had a couple of decent tap downs if I remember rightly. He feels like a player that is going to frustrate for a while yet, but hopefully perserverance will be worth it. I do wish we would see a bit more 'keep it simple' footy from him. Really does feel like that he overthinks his options at times, and sways a little bit too far towards trying to pull off the miracle play when a simpler option would be better.

      Blakey reminds me of Rohan. Does a couple of good things and goes missing. Hope to be proven wrong and he can live up to his talent

      Comment

      • MattW
        Veterans List
        • May 2011
        • 4232

        Originally posted by mcs
        I was disappointed when Blakey got injured yesterday - only because I was intrigued to see how he would go across a full game playing a role that included time in the ruck. Actually had a couple of decent tap downs if I remember rightly. He feels like a player that is going to frustrate for a while yet, but hopefully perserverance will be worth it. I do wish we would see a bit more 'keep it simple' footy from him. Really does feel like that he overthinks his options at times, and sways a little bit too far towards trying to pull off the miracle play when a simpler option would be better.



        Hayward is an odd one. For the style of role he plays, statistically he stacks up pretty well at this point in his career. But I think many of us have a lingering feeling that his career is really ambling along, when he is actually reaching a point where if its going to take off, it should. I've always had concerns with his tank as well, but I think part of the challenge is that his style is one that is likely to be effective when he has a well functioning team around him, but one that is likely to look badly exposed when it doesn't. I want him to take that next step, but not entirely sure it is going to happen.

        But I've been wrong plenty of times before, so hope I am again.
        Agree on both players.

        Blakey looks like he hasn’t really grown up yet. The responsibility of pinch hitting ruck looked a good opportunity for him.

        Comment

        • Markwebbos
          Veterans List
          • Jul 2016
          • 7186

          Originally posted by MattW
          Agree on both players.

          Blakey looks like he hasn’t really grown up yet. The responsibility of pinch hitting ruck looked a good opportunity for him.
          The second coming of Dean Towers?

          Comment

          • MattW
            Veterans List
            • May 2011
            • 4232

            Originally posted by Markwebbos
            The second coming of Dean Towers?
            Eek.

            Comment

            • stevoswan
              Veterans List
              • Sep 2014
              • 8573

              Originally posted by Captain
              Totally agree.

              Posters on here (generally the usual cancel culture lot who cannot fathom differing opinions) are keen to get stuck into you about Rowbottom but not many give you credit for getting on Warner early in the pre season.

              You claimed Warner was ahead of Rowbottom and you were 100% correct.
              Not all of us pick sides (political or not) but you're in the minority on RB......and we're all on the Warner train. We can fathom different opinions....and can agree or disagree. Hey, isn't it a free world anti-cancel culture guy?

              Comment

              • TheBloods
                Suspended by the MRP
                • Feb 2020
                • 2047

                Originally posted by stevoswan
                Not all of us pick sides (political or not) but you're in the minority on RB......and we're all on the Warner train. We can fathom different opinions....and can agree or disagree. Hey, isn't it a free world anti-cancel culture guy?
                Define 'minority' ?? Maybe on RWO to not rate RB is a minority opinion but hes not rated that highly outside of the supporter base. We all want every swans player to be a superstar but reality is very few if any will be. Most neutrals see him for what he is - a decent kid with the potential to be good. Nothing more. He doesnt have the talent of Chad, Gulden, Jmac, Dawson, Mcdonald .. these kids have the makings of elite players and you wont hear a single Swans supporter or neutral alike question them. Their ability speaks for itself and you can have patience with them and ride their ups and downs. The less capable players like Rowbottom , Mclean Melican have to hit the ground running harder to make more of an impact and when they dont they open themselves to criticism. Thats not my opinion or exclusive to this forum, its just a fact. Might not be fair but thats the way it is

                Comment

                • Scottee
                  Senior Player
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 1585

                  His leap is enormous. Most positive thing to come out of the game.
                  We have them where we want them, everything is going according to plan!

                  Comment

                  • mcs
                    Travelling Swannie!!
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 8177

                    Originally posted by TheBloods
                    Define 'minority' ?? Maybe on RWO to not rate RB is a minority opinion but hes not rated that highly outside of the supporter base. We all want every swans player to be a superstar but reality is very few if any will be. Most neutrals see him for what he is - a decent kid with the potential to be good. Nothing more. He doesnt have the talent of Chad, Gulden, Jmac, Dawson, Mcdonald .. these kids have the makings of elite players and you wont hear a single Swans supporter or neutral alike question them. Their ability speaks for itself and you can have patience with them and ride their ups and downs. The less capable players like Rowbottom , Mclean Melican have to hit the ground running harder to make more of an impact and when they dont they open themselves to criticism. Thats not my opinion or exclusive to this forum, its just a fact. Might not be fair but thats the way it is
                    As always, you define everything in absolutes when like everything else you say it is solely your opinion. I'd be very intrigued how you objectively define 'capable player' or 'talent' in any shape or form that allows for objective comparisons to be made between players, beyond your views of the world you like to portray as 'fact'. They are purely subjective measures, which make them nothing but opinion by definition.

                    And as always you continue to apply one set of rules to players you like, another altogether to those you don't..... somehow players that have to 'work harder to make more of an impact' are open to constant criticism (or in your case - continual roasting), but those blessed by a wannabe football deity are given a free reign because we are commanded to 'have patience with them'.

                    Perfectly illustrated by the fact there hasn't be a peep from you about how relatively anonymous one of your favourites has been in the last fortnight, nor about how ordinary the ball use has been by another of them. But if someone not on the 'free pass' list makes a mistake, its off to the guillotine with them.....
                    Last edited by mcs; 26 April 2021, 09:57 AM.
                    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

                    Comment

                    • mcs
                      Travelling Swannie!!
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 8177

                      Originally posted by longmile
                      Blakey reminds me of Rohan. Does a couple of good things and goes missing. Hope to be proven wrong and he can live up to his talent
                      Definitely get what your saying and sadly don't disagree at this point.
                      "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

                      Comment

                      • royboy42
                        Senior Player
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 2078

                        Originally posted by TheBloods
                        Define 'minority' ?? Maybe on RWO to not rate RB is a minority opinion but hes not rated that highly outside of the supporter base. We all want every swans player to be a superstar but reality is very few if any will be. Most neutrals see him for what he is - a decent kid with the potential to be good. Nothing more. He doesnt have the talent of Chad, Gulden, Jmac, Dawson, Mcdonald .. these kids have the makings of elite players and you wont hear a single Swans supporter or neutral alike question them. Their ability speaks for itself and you can have patience with them and ride their ups and downs. The less capable players like Rowbottom , Mclean Melican have to hit the ground running harder to make more of an impact and when they dont they open themselves to criticism. Thats not my opinion or exclusive to this forum, its just a fact. Might not be fair but thats the way it is

                        HMOG, can we drop off RB for a while? He's a pretty good player trying to improve himself. And that's enough for me.
                        Enough of this petty hate fest.

                        Comment

                        • giant
                          Veterans List
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 4731

                          Think I picked a good week not to watch the game. That replay can be safely consigned to the waste bin I suspect.

                          Comment

                          • bloodspirit
                            Clubman
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 4448

                            I want to question the near-universal hate currently on here for Lewis Melican. Certainly, Melican has had a number of conspicuous fail moments: e.g. where he has kicked to the opposition and lost one on one contests. Despite this, is he overall doing a decent job?

                            AFL Player Ratings are the official metrics of the AFL and they are based on the best stats/objective data available and are certainly better than AFL Fantasy and SuperCoach which are both really shallow. While these ratings are certainly not perfect, they have the key virtue of being relatively OBJECTIVE. They are also fairly sophisticated. You may be surprised to know that, even factoring in Melican's various clangers and contest losses:

                            * against GWS, Melican was rated 3rd best player on ground: AFL Player Ratings (@AFLPlayerRating) / Twitter

                            * and even against the Suns he was rated our 7th best player and 12th best afield (out of 46): AFL Player Ratings (@AFLPlayerRating) / Twitter.

                            I would like to see him polish up his errors but I haven't given up on him yet. He is far from our worst player and we need him to succeed given our lack of depth in this position. He is going to be playing for the next few weeks to come (barring injury) and I hope the continuity helps him get on top of his game. Ideally he will play well enough to hold his place after the return of Rampe and McCartin.
                            All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

                            Comment

                            • snajik
                              Senior Player
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 1115

                              Originally posted by bloodspirit
                              I want to question the near-universal hate currently on here for Lewis Melican. Certainly, Melican has had a number of conspicuous fail moments: e.g. where he has kicked to the opposition and lost one on one contests. Despite this, is he overall doing a decent job?

                              AFL Player Ratings are the official metrics of the AFL and they are based on the best stats/objective data available and are certainly better than AFL Fantasy and SuperCoach which are both really shallow. While these ratings are certainly not perfect, they have the key virtue of being relatively OBJECTIVE. They are also fairly sophisticated. You may be surprised to know that, even factoring in Melican's various clangers and contest losses:

                              * against GWS, Melican was rated 3rd best player on ground: AFL Player Ratings (@AFLPlayerRating) / Twitter

                              * and even against the Suns he was rated our 7th best player and 12th best afield (out of 46): AFL Player Ratings (@AFLPlayerRating) / Twitter.

                              I would like to see him polish up his errors but I haven't given up on him yet. He is far from our worst player and we need him to succeed given our lack of depth in this position. He is going to be playing for the next few weeks to come (barring injury) and I hope the continuity helps him get on top of his game. Ideally he will play well enough to hold his place after the return of Rampe and McCartin.
                              I agree, Melican hasn’t been nearly as bad as everyone would have you believe. There’s been no lack of effort that I can see. He’s been outplayed by bigger, more talented opponents. Realistically, he’s our third best tall defender behind Rampe and McCartin, but he’s been asked to play the #1 key defender role, and probably #2 last week. He’s doing his best under tough circumstances, and the ball has been down there a lot, often well-delivered.

                              Interestingly, Melican copped it last week against the Giants. He gave away a goal in the last quarter due primarily to Himmelberg’s smarts, but managed to save two others through sound positioning. Meanwhile, McCartin’s final quarter against GWS was very flaky – clearly outmarked twice, dropped three marks (not all were straightforward, and gave away a 50m penalty – though he avoided any criticism. Don’t get me wrong, I reckon Tom’s a ripper, but some players come under much greater scrutiny here. Further, it was Melican’s first game for the season, thrown into a makeshift and mostly inexperienced backline.
                              It's very hard to live in a studio apartment in San Jose with a man who's learning to play violin. That's what she told the police when she handed them the empty revolver.
                              The Scarlatti Tilt - Richard Brautigan

                              Comment

                              • MattW
                                Veterans List
                                • May 2011
                                • 4232

                                Originally posted by bloodspirit
                                I want to question the near-universal hate currently on here for Lewis Melican. Certainly, Melican has had a number of conspicuous fail moments: e.g. where he has kicked to the opposition and lost one on one contests. Despite this, is he overall doing a decent job?

                                AFL Player Ratings are the official metrics of the AFL and they are based on the best stats/objective data available and are certainly better than AFL Fantasy and SuperCoach which are both really shallow. While these ratings are certainly not perfect, they have the key virtue of being relatively OBJECTIVE. They are also fairly sophisticated. You may be surprised to know that, even factoring in Melican's various clangers and contest losses:

                                * against GWS, Melican was rated 3rd best player on ground: AFL Player Ratings (@AFLPlayerRating) / Twitter

                                * and even against the Suns he was rated our 7th best player and 12th best afield (out of 46): AFL Player Ratings (@AFLPlayerRating) / Twitter.

                                I would like to see him polish up his errors but I haven't given up on him yet. He is far from our worst player and we need him to succeed given our lack of depth in this position. He is going to be playing for the next few weeks to come (barring injury) and I hope the continuity helps him get on top of his game. Ideally he will play well enough to hold his place after the return of Rampe and McCartin.
                                Hate is a bit strong, mate.

                                Comment

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