Swans v Suns: Round 6.

[Kumarangk]

Certainly not Parker but Lloyd needs top be accountable for some of his games just as Blakey should be , but whilst there is a lack of depth my point was that these changes cannot be made.

[stevoswan]

What if its the same players week in week out who i think arent good enough ? You dont have to agree . There are 4 or 5 players who get regular games for us who i dont think are up to it and they fail to do enough to convince me otherwise. I am not a stubborn old man like you think, i didnt have Sam wicks in our top 22 players before the season and didnt know why we were giving him a go over others. He performed and has shut me up. Havent had to mention him since. Time for Hayward , Melican McLean Rowbottom and Blakey to do the same and shut me up.

I don't think you're old but maybe a bit stubborn yes. I do agree on some of the players you speak about like Blakey and maybe Melican but not so much on the others. Hayward and RB have just come back....Hayward might be on notice after a quiet second game but RB will be better for the run. He may have come back a week early but he didn't select himself. McLean is usually serviceable in Buddy's absence and while a bit quiet yesterday, still kicked two. Amartey is hardly banging the door down at the moment. It's fine to bang on about the same players all the time, as annoying as that can be but we've actually got a dearth of ready made replacements at the moment with our increasing injury list. Selection table merry go round is not the way to go.

[TheBloods]

Players get dropped to the reserves, then recalled, and sometimes dropped again. This is done by every club for lots of different reasons. Hayward and Melican were both dropped for the start of the season, then played well enough in the reserves to get the call when we had a few injuries. So they come in, play a few weeks, and try to stay in the best 22. How else are they supposed to earn your affections unless given a chance to show that they have indeed improved since dropped to the reserves? You've even given Wicks as an example of how this happens. We meed tp show a bit of patience with the younger players before sending them off to the gulag.

I've been far from satisfied with the play of Hayward and Melican.

Hayward is only 22 yo, has a lot of talent, but hasn't quite put it together on a consistent basis. He's still young and has time to develop his game further. Perhaps he will get dropped many times before proven he's an automatic selection. Maybe it will never happen.

Melican has only played 48 games in 7 seasons, so he hasn't strung that many together to achieve the consistency required, mainly due to injury, but sometimes due to form. In yesterday's game, he connected with 8 of his 9 disposals, but his one on one defending wasn't too good. In his defence, he had a tough assignment in King, who is close to unstoppable on the lead. I don't know if Melican will ever reach a level where he's capable of guarding someone like Ben King.

I feel McLean is too slow and lacks agility, but works hard and is a capable mark and kick for goal. He's still a work in progress. Sometimes players can forge a career off effort alone.

I don't mind Blakey trying things from his bag of tricks. He's not pulling off enough for my liking, but he seems a smart kid and I feel he'll work it out. Eventually I think he will come to dazzle the crowd.

The selectors are faced with problems every week, trying to decide if someone in the reserves has done enough to warrant a call-up, as well a who from the seniors needs to go back to the reserves to improve his game. I don't think it helps a player's development to play them like a yo yo, bouncing back and forth between the senior team and the reserves. It doesn't do much for the continuity of our game plan either. I prefer to give players a fair stretch of time to settle in and get up to the pace and level of the game.

Hayward has played 72 games, Melican 48. They have had plenty of experience to show their worth. Depth players at best.

What about Blakey and rowbottom ? They are immune from being dropped it seems

[barry]

Don't worry about these minor players. Makes no difference if they are in or out of best 22.
The only player that matters is Tom Hickey.

[Captain]

What if its the same players week in week out who i think arent good enough ? You dont have to agree . There are 4 or 5 players who get regular games for us who i dont think are up to it and they fail to do enough to convince me otherwise. I am not a stubborn old man like you think, i didnt have Sam wicks in our top 22 players before the season and didnt know why we were giving him a go over others. He performed and has shut me up. Havent had to mention him since. Time for Hayward , Melican McLean Rowbottom and Blakey to do the same and shut me up.

Totally agree.

Posters on here (generally the usual cancel culture lot who cannot fathom differing opinions) are keen to get stuck into you about Rowbottom but not many give you credit for getting on Warner early in the pre season.

You claimed Warner was ahead of Rowbottom and you were 100% correct.

[Ludwig]

What about Blakey and rowbottom ? They are immune from being dropped it seems

You're in a minority of one on Rowbottom. You're entitled to your opinion, but the rest of us in the majority feel he's too good to be dropped. The majority supporting Rowbottom include every commentator and footy journalist as well as the Swans' coaching staff, so it's going to take a lot of LSD to see what you're seeing.

Blakey has been dropped before, so he's not immune. But nearly everyone agrees that he's a real talent and will be one of our stars of the future. It's just a matter of finding the best way to help him develop as a player. Do we let him find his way in the seniors or work on his development through the reserves? I'm okay to leave that decision to the coaching staff.

[AB Swannie]

Hayward has played 72 games, Melican 48. They have had plenty of experience to show their worth. Depth players at best.

What about Blakey and rowbottom ? They are immune from being dropped it seems

Hayward has kicked more than 1 goal per game on average which is the the same as Bailey Fritsch from Melbourne but Will is two years younger. What exactly or who as a comparison would you like to see Will perform like?

[gloveski]

Righto we have 3 players in debate.

Rowbottom great talent but really want to see him dominate and go a high 30 plus game with 10 plus tackles consistently . I can see him just being a run of the mill midfielder unless he regularly gets 30 plus . What he does is good but will need to be 30 plus regularly to be elite

Hayward , if he can be the 4th forward I can see him being more than serviceable as he is a hard match up . Needs to get more of it but he’s the type I could see go to another side and dominate. We need to find his best spot or another team will . Reminds me of Will Hosken Elliott looks a million dollars when he gets it but is likely to give you less Than 10 touches a game . Needs to be 15 plus player to make an impact.

Blakey , bit of an enigma hoping he turns in to a bit westoff type player . Tries to do to much with it . His best is great and can break lines with his speed . If he can average 20 he will be a gun . If he can’t he will be another that has wasted his talent .

These 3 all have talent it’s up to the coaches to get the best out of them we sure don’t want another Aliir Aliir situation


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[Ludwig]

Rowbottom great talent but really want to see him dominate and go a high 30 plus game with 10 plus tackles consistently . I can see him just being a run of the mill midfielder unless he regularly gets 30 plus . What he does is good but will need to be 30 plus regularly to be elite

There are only 7 players averaging more than 30 disposals a game this year and none of them are close to landing 10 tackles per game. In fact, the best tackler in the comp is Jed Anderson averaging 9 per game. Dustin Martin is averaging 24 disposals and 2 tackles a game. Rowbottom has the highest average tackles this year for a Swan with 6.50 per game.

So, you will only be satisfied with RB if his stats are much better than the best player in the game. Averaging high 30 plus disposals and 10 tackles would make him the runaway Brownlow medalist.

Not asking too much, are you?

[Velour&Ruffles]

There are only 7 players averaging more than 30 disposals a game this year and none of them are close to landing 10 tackles per game. In fact, the best tackler in the comp is Jed Anderson averaging 9 per game. Dustin Martin is averaging 24 disposals and 2 tackles a game. Rowbottom has the highest average tackles this year for a Swan with 6.50 per game.

So, you will only be satisfied with RB if his stats are much better than the best player in the game. Averaging high 30 plus disposals and 10 tackles would make him the runaway Brownlow medalist.

Not asking too much, are you?

Stop introducing rationality and objective data into the discussion. It has no place here.

[mcs]

There are only 7 players averaging more than 30 disposals a game this year and none of them are close to landing 10 tackles per game. In fact, the best tackler in the comp is Jed Anderson averaging 9 per game. Dustin Martin is averaging 24 disposals and 2 tackles a game. Rowbottom has the highest average tackles this year for a Swan with 6.50 per game.

So, you will only be satisfied with RB if his stats are much better than the best player in the game. Averaging high 30 plus disposals and 10 tackles would make him the runaway Brownlow medalist.

Not asking too much, are you?

Illustrates exactly the broader point I've been making at times, and equally applies to many players across the teams. People throw out any sort of crazy ideas about what a player must do, even if in the reality of cold hard stats its completely unrealistic.

No doubt Rowbottom needs to build up his possession numbers, and improve in a range of areas in his game. So does every player at that point in time in a career. Statistically, he still stacks up relatively well for someone playing the role he is at this stage of his career.

And despite the protestations of some that seem to think whatever is shown in game 1 is enough to make complete judgment of a player's ability, there are countless examples throughout AFL/VFL history to show that all players develop at different rates, and judgments made before a player hits a reasonable level of experience and one can reasonably expect they are truly approaching their 'ceiling' are foolish at best. Many that come out of the blocks like a house on fire don't reach any great heights over their entire career. Some look utterly unsuited for a long time before 'hitting the switch' - there is so much variation in how players develop.

[Nico]

Hayward has kicked more than 1 goal per game on average which is the the same as Bailey Fritsch from Melbourne but Will is two years younger. What exactly or who as a comparison would you like to see Will perform like?

AB, I was at the game and made a point of watching Will as much as I could. A lot of the time he wandered aimlessly around the forward line. IIRC he had 2 kicks and a handball to 3q time. He didn't lead or try to create a target and he does little or no chasing. If he made a run in a direction he was then on his haunches. He doesn't seem to have a tank. He just doesn't get into the action. TB says he has played 72 games, how long do we wait for a breakout game/s.

[mcs]

I don't mind Blakey trying things from his bag of tricks. He's not pulling off enough for my liking, but he seems a smart kid and I feel he'll work it out. Eventually I think he will come to dazzle the crowd.

I was disappointed when Blakey got injured yesterday - only because I was intrigued to see how he would go across a full game playing a role that included time in the ruck. Actually had a couple of decent tap downs if I remember rightly. He feels like a player that is going to frustrate for a while yet, but hopefully perserverance will be worth it. I do wish we would see a bit more 'keep it simple' footy from him. Really does feel like that he overthinks his options at times, and sways a little bit too far towards trying to pull off the miracle play when a simpler option would be better.

AB, I was at the game and made a point of watching Will as much as I could. A lot of the time he wandered aimlessly around the forward line. IIRC he had 2 kicks and a handball to 3q time. He didn't lead or try to create a target and he does little or no chasing. If he made a run in a direction he was then on his haunches. He doesn't seem to have a tank. He just doesn't get into the action. TB says he has played 72 games, how long do we wait for a breakout game/s.

Hayward is an odd one. For the style of role he plays, statistically he stacks up pretty well at this point in his career. But I think many of us have a lingering feeling that his career is really ambling along, when he is actually reaching a point where if its going to take off, it should. I've always had concerns with his tank as well, but I think part of the challenge is that his style is one that is likely to be effective when he has a well functioning team around him, but one that is likely to look badly exposed when it doesn't. I want him to take that next step, but not entirely sure it is going to happen.

But I've been wrong plenty of times before, so hope I am again.

[TheBloods]

Totally agree.

Posters on here (generally the usual cancel culture lot who cannot fathom differing opinions) are keen to get stuck into you about Rowbottom but not many give you credit for getting on Warner early in the pre season.

You claimed Warner was ahead of Rowbottom and you were 100% correct.

There are no comparisons between the two. Chad is a superb talent. Rowbottom is a player of average ability who can be good if he applies himself.

[gloveski]

There are only 7 players averaging more than 30 disposals a game this year and none of them are close to landing 10 tackles per game. In fact, the best tackler in the comp is Jed Anderson averaging 9 per game. Dustin Martin is averaging 24 disposals and 2 tackles a game. Rowbottom has the highest average tackles this year for a Swan with 6.50 per game.

So, you will only be satisfied with RB if his stats are much better than the best player in the game. Averaging high 30 plus disposals and 10 tackles would make him the runaway Brownlow medalist.

Not asking too much, are you?

And that’s my point to be elite that’s what he will have to do .He is no Dusty . Good player but not Elite . For us to go forward a player like Rowbottom has to become Elite . He’s not dynamic enough to influence a game unless he becomes a high posy mid . I’m not writing him off by all means


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