Match Thread. Swans v Hawthorn

[NeonBible]

Hi all, i would just like to add my two cents and hopefully offer a different perspective on Rowbottom

First of all anyone who is contemplating (or in TB's case hoping) that he will be dropped might as well forget that idea as it won't happen. The coaches love him and they are loving what he is doing in what has been a development year for him. Last year he was forced to play above his level due to injuries in the midfield and COVID meaning we couldn't rest youngsters as much as we would've liked. Our depth was challenged. It was valuable experience for Rowy but he didnt get the backseat lessons the coaches intended for him because of it! This year he is getting more of an instructive approach, Mills has come in and been a bit of a buffer, hes also had a few injuries throughout the season so his role is a bit more secondary! He's getting to focus on learning the offensive and defensive side of his game, when to go for the ball and when to go for the man, and getting front row seats to watch how the three older and bigger mids go about it! He wont always get it right but these are the lessons they want him to learn as despite what we all might think, they see him as the one who will lead the midfield in the future alongside Mills. So they will ride the bumps and will give him every chance to learn the game!! His form would have to seriously seriously wane for him to be on the chopping block.

On Friday night's performance again the coaches liked what they saw. From my observations it wasn't one of his better games. The two nasty fend-offs he was given by the Hawthorn players showed he is lacking in strength as barry said above. The side of that argument i hadn't considered is that they meant he was getting into the right positions to be given a fend off. As fabulous as our midfielders like Joey and Parker are, you wont see them being brushed off like that, because they are usually too far behind to get near the playe rwith the ball. Rowbottom has that acceleration off the mark and can close the space between himself and his opponent quite well to keep up with them. It puts him in great positions to close them down with tackles, once he has the strength to make them stick!! None of our older mids have that spring in their step to be able to do that and the coaches aren't discouraged by him being beaten like that. They see it as a positive that he's able to stick on his opponents enough in the first place. Maybe something for us all to consider next time he gets swatted away like a fly!!

I definitely see other concerns in his game but as far as his physicality the powers that be at the club aren't concerned!

CHEER CHEER

[Blood Fever]

Im not expecting great games from him every week. One would do. He is 37 games into his career now and not one of them have been great. Has never even had over 25 touches which should be a achievable at least once or twice if your an inside mid. Never had a coaches vote, never had a Rising star nomination , most outside the swans fans wouldnt know who he is

These arent everything but they are usually a good indication of what a player can become . Max king for example wont kick bags every week but has had a few here and there that suggest he could be a great forward. Noah anderson was quiet on the weekend but has had some great games to suggest what sort of a player he'll be. We havent seen anything of that sort from Rowbottom yet , just moments here and there. The most concerning part as i mentioned is that he was not prolific as a junior either , his record shows he was only averaging 21 disposals as an inside mid so not great signs that we can expect him to become a dominant player

His game against Brisbane where he was injured and played on, was excellent in terms of courage and output.

[royboy42]

Some cant take the leap from junior talent to AFL star and theres no shame in that. He's an average player who can still have a role in the team if used correctly, hes a strong tackler and has good body work at times which would make him an excellent defender. Maybe he replaces Fox or Hewett. But we are lacking a spark in the midfield and we are kidding ourselves if we think he is it , give his midfield minutes to Chad and Florent instead, then Gulden, Stephens etc next year

By the way im glad someone else mentioned the constant hands on knees. It is not a good look when you are side by side with your opponent at a stoppage and you are hunched over sucking in the big ones looking like you would rather be anywhere else. Not lazy but a sign that you lack the competitiveness at the contest and hunger for the next ball to be thrown up. Have said his body language on field has stunk for ages now and been howled at, even someone on here who knows him personally said hes too passive

'Hands on knees...sucking in the big ones?"
Ever noticed out captain Parks does exactly that all the time?
Gonna challenge him on it?

[mcs]

'Hands on knees...sucking in the big ones?"
Ever noticed out captain Parks does exactly that all the time?
Gonna challenge him on it?

Plenty of other quality players around the league do it to.

It might be a sign of fitness not being at the level one would hope, but its hardly the hanging offence being suggested either. I somehow don't think its in the 'leading indicators' that coaches are too concerned about.

Hi all, i would just like to add my two cents and hopefully offer a different perspective on Rowbottom

First of all anyone who is contemplating (or in TB's case hoping) that he will be dropped might as well forget that idea as it won't happen. The coaches love him and they are loving what he is doing in what has been a development year for him. Last year he was forced to play above his level due to injuries in the midfield and COVID meaning we couldn't rest youngsters as much as we would've liked. Our depth was challenged. It was valuable experience for Rowy but he didnt get the backseat lessons the coaches intended for him because of it! This year he is getting more of an instructive approach, Mills has come in and been a bit of a buffer, hes also had a few injuries throughout the season so his role is a bit more secondary! He's getting to focus on learning the offensive and defensive side of his game, when to go for the ball and when to go for the man, and getting front row seats to watch how the three older and bigger mids go about it! He wont always get it right but these are the lessons they want him to learn as despite what we all might think, they see him as the one who will lead the midfield in the future alongside Mills. So they will ride the bumps and will give him every chance to learn the game!! His form would have to seriously seriously wane for him to be on the chopping block.

Its just the same old ramblings that we've seen all season from someone that has already written him off, fed him to the wolves, hung drawn and quartered him and then thrown him off the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

As always, all most would like to see is for consistency about how young players are assessed. For others, they are marked with a free pass because of the style of play, the dynamism of their approach, or whatever other term is this weeks phrase of the week, while a target few are subject to excessive micro-scrutiny of every single little thing - just like this week's absurd focus on hands on the knees at stoppages.

More nuanced comments such as yours recognise that he is like any other young player, will be up and down at times, and will have better and worse games. But that there seems to be a plan, as there invariably is for young players that have talent and need time and experience to develop and to find where the ceiling may be.

For every player that 'bursts' on to the scene, there are just as many that take a long time to reach anywhere near their ceiling. Some of the absolute best players in the modern era fit that profile, as I've said many times on here before. I'm not saying Rowbottom will reach such a level, but would not suprise me if in 2 or 3 years time his career trajectory rapidly takes off either - the building blocks are broadly there.

Maybe the majority will be proven wrong and nostradamus can live out their days saying 'told you so' excessively and at every living moment. But maybe not. Far too early to tell.

You only have to look at the McHack episodes all those years ago to see how it can all just 'click' even after an extended period of inconsistency and promising moments only early in a career. And statistically, Rowbottom is doing just fine in the role he is playing for the stage at his career he is at.

[liz]

It might be a sign of fitness not being at the level one would hope,

On its own I don't think it says anything about fitness. It just says that a player is working up to the limit of his fitness, whatever that might be.

[MattW]

My curiousity on Rowbottom is not what sort of player he can become, which is very good; but how much the knee is bothering him still.

Last year, he showed a fairly dynamic element to his game, with not so much pure speed but both an ability to get up and down the ground, as well as being one of those rare players you see both accelerate into and out of contests.

A bit of that is absent right now, or at least he's not doing it consistently. Which makes me wonder how much training he's doing through the week, and how much the coaches have tailored his role for now to more of a defensive one to match any physical limitations.

It may just be a temporary thing and I'm far more confident that one or two notable exceptions about his long-term capacity to be part of a terrific midfield mix.

Right on.

[mcs]

On its own I don't think it says anything about fitness. It just says that a player is working up to the limit of his fitness, whatever that might be.

As always Liz, you put it far better than me - I meant within that broader context of where his limits are at this point in time.

[Bangalore Swans]

Im not expecting great games from him every week. One would do. He is 37 games into his career now and not one of them have been great. Has never even had over 25 touches which should be a achievable at least once or twice if your an inside mid. Never had a coaches vote, never had a Rising star nomination , most outside the swans fans wouldnt know who he is

These arent everything but they are usually a good indication of what a player can become . Max king for example wont kick bags every week but has had a few here and there that suggest he could be a great forward. Noah anderson was quiet on the weekend but has had some great games to suggest what sort of a player he'll be. We havent seen anything of that sort from Rowbottom yet , just moments here and there. The most concerning part as i mentioned is that he was not prolific as a junior either , his record shows he was only averaging 21 disposals as an inside mid so not great signs that we can expect him to become a dominant player

BT midway through the 3rd quarter was commenting that Rowbottom was doing a good 2nd half job of slowing down Tom Mitchell. BT in the next sentence said that Rowbottom can do those lock down roles.

That comment was coming from someone who knows Rowbottom’s game very well and probably watched him play a lot at junior level.

Maybe he’ll become a better version of that Freemantal tagger Ryan Crowley.

[NeonBible]

Its just the same old ramblings that we've seen all season from someone that has already written him off, fed him to the wolves, hung drawn and quartered him and then thrown him off the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

As always, all most would like to see is for consistency about how young players are assessed. For others, they are marked with a free pass because of the style of play, the dynamism of their approach, or whatever other term is this weeks phrase of the week, while a target few are subject to excessive micro-scrutiny of every single little thing - just like this week's absurd focus on hands on the knees at stoppages.

More nuanced comments such as yours recognise that he is like any other young player, will be up and down at times, and will have better and worse games. But that there seems to be a plan, as there invariably is for young players that have talent and need time and experience to develop and to find where the ceiling may be.

For every player that 'bursts' on to the scene, there are just as many that take a long time to reach anywhere near their ceiling. Some of the absolute best players in the modern era fit that profile, as I've said many times on here before. I'm not saying Rowbottom will reach such a level, but would not suprise me if in 2 or 3 years time his career trajectory rapidly takes off either - the building blocks are broadly there.

Maybe the majority will be proven wrong and nostradamus can live out their days saying 'told you so' excessively and at every living moment. But maybe not. Far too early to tell.

You only have to look at the McHack episodes all those years ago to see how it can all just 'click' even after an extended period of inconsistency and promising moments only early in a career. And statistically, Rowbottom is doing just fine in the role he is playing for the stage at his career he is at.

Im not certain that criticism of Rowbottom is isolated to TheBloods or even just to this site. I have heard similar opinions shared by other people in person and on the internet. I saw some nasty discussions about him on IG the other day. I dont wish to speak on his behalf (not sure TB is a man but he has mentioned his wife before so just assuming here!!) but I think he has been clear that his gripe with Rowbottom is that he doesnt see much in him talent-wise (not an unreasonable view) and so he expects him to make up for that by being prolific (perhaps an unreasonable view) and when he doesn't then he isn't worth giving games to (definitely an unreasonable view)

I can see why one would look at Rowbottom and not see enormous ability, especially compared to some other young swans on our list. He doesnt have much athletically and he would be the first to say that. A nice little shot of acceleration off the mark but that is about as quick as he gets. His ball use leaves a lot to be desired and I have already said that i don't think he has that natural arrogance in his game to try anything spectacular. As Bangalore points out even BT his own uncle sees tagging as a potential niche for him, and you wouldn't say that about a premium youngster.

Hoping he will get more of the ball seems an unfair expectation to hold Rowy to though. On the one hand TheBloods thinks he is at his best when he is being a defensive player. Tackling, pressuring etc. But focusing on those things means you wont get as much of the ball. So it seems TheBloods is mad at Rowy for doing the few things he thinks he is actually good at doing. Oxymoron perhaps??

And it is most definitely unreasonable to call for him to be dropped! For all of the cases where we can point to Rowy getting pushed off too easily there are several other times a match where he sticks a ferocious tackle that few others in the team could do! Where he uses that little acceleration i spoke of to lay a smother or at least pressure the opposition. And though they have been a bit few and far in between, he can have moments of individual brilliance that most certainly help the team! Perhaps in the future if our midfield ends up with as many talented young mids as we hope, maybe Rowy does get pushed out. Maybe he becomes a tagger or he is moved to defence or he is dropped. All possibilities! We're a long way from that though! As of right now he is nowhere near our worst player each week!! I haven't loved what i've seen from him this year but we have FAR bigger problems than Rowbottom! (Not that we are going bad at all!!)

CHEER CHEER

[NeonBible]

On a brighter note ... what a wonderful surprise Amartey has been!! Interestingly he started both games quietly and grew into each game! That is a very promising sign! He is not letting quiet and nervous starts get him down and is still finding his confidence!! Often it can be the opposite for young players! Bravo young man!

[Bangalore Swans]

Im not certain that criticism of Rowbottom is isolated to TheBloods or even just to this site. I have heard similar opinions shared by other people in person and on the internet. I saw some nasty discussions about him on IG the other day. I dont wish to speak on his behalf (not sure TB is a man but he has mentioned his wife before so just assuming here!!) but I think he has been clear that his gripe with Rowbottom is that he doesnt see much in him talent-wise (not an unreasonable view) and so he expects him to make up for that by being prolific (perhaps an unreasonable view) and when he doesn't then he isn't worth giving games to (definitely an unreasonable view)

I can see why one would look at Rowbottom and not see enormous ability, especially compared to some other young swans on our list. He doesnt have much athletically and he would be the first to say that. A nice little shot of acceleration off the mark but that is about as quick as he gets. His ball use leaves a lot to be desired and I have already said that i don't think he has that natural arrogance in his game to try anything spectacular. As Bangalore points out even BT his own uncle sees tagging as a potential niche for him, and you wouldn't say that about a premium youngster.

Hoping he will get more of the ball seems an unfair expectation to hold Rowy to though. On the one hand TheBloods thinks he is at his best when he is being a defensive player. Tackling, pressuring etc. But focusing on those things means you wont get as much of the ball. So it seems TheBloods is mad at Rowy for doing the few things he thinks he is actually good at doing. Oxymoron perhaps??

And it is most definitely unreasonable to call for him to be dropped! For all of the cases where we can point to Rowy getting pushed off too easily there are several other times a match where he sticks a ferocious tackle that few others in the team could do! Where he uses that little acceleration i spoke of to lay a smother or at least pressure the opposition. And though they have been a bit few and far in between, he can have moments of individual brilliance that most certainly help the team! Perhaps in the future if our midfield ends up with as many talented young mids as we hope, maybe Rowy does get pushed out. Maybe he becomes a tagger or he is moved to defence or he is dropped. All possibilities! We're a long way from that though! As of right now he is nowhere near our worst player each week!! I haven't loved what i've seen from him this year but we have FAR bigger problems than Rowbottom! (Not that we are going bad at all!!)

CHEER CHEER

The 2005 premiership team was built on defensive midfielders. Mathews, Crouch, Kirk, Fosdyke and Ablett.

Rowbottom would have been perfect in that time.

I still don’t know how these guys beat a midfield of Kerr, Cousins, Judd and Cox? Two Brownlow medallist’s, the best ruckman of the era and in Kerr a brilliant player.

[Roadrunner]

Im not certain that criticism of Rowbottom is isolated to TheBloods or even just to this site. I have heard similar opinions shared by other people in person and on the internet. I saw some nasty discussions about him on IG the other day. I dont wish to speak on his behalf (not sure TB is a man but he has mentioned his wife before so just assuming here!!) but I think he has been clear that his gripe with Rowbottom is that he doesnt see much in him talent-wise (not an unreasonable view) and so he expects him to make up for that by being prolific (perhaps an unreasonable view) and when he doesn't then he isn't worth giving games to (definitely an unreasonable view)

I can see why one would look at Rowbottom and not see enormous ability, especially compared to some other young swans on our list. He doesnt have much athletically and he would be the first to say that. A nice little shot of acceleration off the mark but that is about as quick as he gets. His ball use leaves a lot to be desired and I have already said that i don't think he has that natural arrogance in his game to try anything spectacular. As Bangalore points out even BT his own uncle sees tagging as a potential niche for him, and you wouldn't say that about a premium youngster.

Hoping he will get more of the ball seems an unfair expectation to hold Rowy to though. On the one hand TheBloods thinks he is at his best when he is being a defensive player. Tackling, pressuring etc. But focusing on those things means you wont get as much of the ball. So it seems TheBloods is mad at Rowy for doing the few things he thinks he is actually good at doing. Oxymoron perhaps??

And it is most definitely unreasonable to call for him to be dropped! For all of the cases where we can point to Rowy getting pushed off too easily there are several other times a match where he sticks a ferocious tackle that few others in the team could do! Where he uses that little acceleration i spoke of to lay a smother or at least pressure the opposition. And though they have been a bit few and far in between, he can have moments of individual brilliance that most certainly help the team! Perhaps in the future if our midfield ends up with as many talented young mids as we hope, maybe Rowy does get pushed out. Maybe he becomes a tagger or he is moved to defence or he is dropped. All possibilities! We're a long way from that though! As of right now he is nowhere near our worst player each week!! I haven't loved what i've seen from him this year but we have FAR bigger problems than Rowbottom! (Not that we are going bad at all!!)

CHEER CHEER

Some good points Neon- but guys, aren’t we focusing on RB a bit too much? There are 22 plus players in our team/ squad so why are we (or some of us) keep talking so much about 1 player?

[Goal Sneak]

The 2005 premiership team was built on defensive midfielders. Mathews, Crouch, Kirk, Fosdyke and Ablett.

Rowbottom would have been perfect in that time.

I still don’t know how these guys beat a midfield of Kerr, Cousins, Judd and Cox? Two Brownlow medallist’s, the best ruckman of the era and in Kerr a brilliant player.

The 05 team was stacked with great forwards and defenders. Hall, O'Loughlin, Davis and ROK all firing up front. C Bolton, Barry, Kennelly & LRT locking down back.

Ball was in great form in the ruck all that year and was super important.

Throw Goodes in (in Brownlow form) and you got yourself the makings of a drought breaking premiership team.

The 05 mids were tough. They always gave their all. They played to their strengths and they were not going to let anyone stop them.

That 2005 team was special. I know exactly how they beat all those guys.

[Legs Akimbo]

[QUOTE

I still don’t know how these guys beat a midfield of Kerr, Cousins, Judd and Cox? Two Brownlow medallist’s, the best ruckman of the era and in Kerr a brilliant player.[/QUOTE]

Don't do drugs. Drugs are bad.

[NeonBible]

Some good points Neon- but guys, aren’t we focusing on RB a bit too much? There are 22 plus players in our team/ squad so why are we (or some of us) keep talking so much about 1 player?

I am with you!! I enjoy the discourse both in praise and criticism but it does feel like some (Rowy, Chad, Blakey, Hickey) attract one or the other more than others!! Just earlier i tried to get some love for the young man Amartey going.. Nobody took the bait!!!