Swans v Dogs Gamethread

[Rod_]

Well first is to congratulate the Swans on a great victory!

Free kick balance sheet was not in our favor and against the Dogs in Victoria will probably never be a level playing field. Disappointing in the 21 century! (look above and smile)

Gulden has proven to be so much more that I had hoped from all the write up over the years. Well do and keep up the work!

Joined the Armarty Party for sure!!

Hope we can fit Chad into the side..

Reid will have to do a lot to push one out..

Enjoying the moment

Rod_

[NeonBible]

I also think that Hewitt was great yesterday. A real challenge for Rowbottom, I think, as that seems to be the most like-for-like match-up at the moment.

Parker was so strong, and Kennedy, notwithstanding some comments above, was mighty. But I don't think that we can play JPK, Parker, Hewitt, and Rowbottom in the same 22. Mills is # 1 midfielder picked.

Hi O'Reilly Boy,

Rowbottom poses an interesting dilemma for JL. It's obvious he is too good for the VFL, but perhaps not quite good enough for the AFL. He is a favourite of Longmire's but he would not deny that the midfield has been on song without Rowy of late, and when given the choice between what's best for a highly rated player of his who he sees as a best 22 player versus what's best for the team, he will always go with what's best for the team! It's what makes him a successful coach!!

I have a proposal and it might be controversial.. i hope not hehe.. but the idea of keeping Rowy in the reserves for the rest of the year is appealing. Of course if there are injuries in the senior 22 and he's called upon, i think most of us are convinced of what he can do at the highest level and would be more than a handy inclusion if needed! But I would maybe not make him a priority for his own sake as much as the team's.

It hasn't been his year i'm afraid! Knee hyperextension in the first quarter of the first game, adductor soreness in the pre-bye stretch of games, more recently a shoulder injury that flared up! He's also been sidelined every time the team goes on a tear! He missed the first 3 weeks, and has missed the last two, all when we've played our best footy! I don't believe it's his fault but sometimes things just don't go your way and he hasn't got to enjoy the spoils of playing in a dominant team like the rest have!! He has been solid. I wouldn't call his season a failure to launch, more like a cautious lower-atmosphere space orbit, threatening to do more but never quite doing so heh.. He's been managed consistently and there have been concerns about his fitness, he's had the training wheels on all year and even yesterday was managed in a VFL game!

He is playing catch-up all the time because of where his fitness is at and time is rapidly running out for him to get to a point where we can just rely on him to be fit enough to be at his best! There are just five games left! We can't go into a must-win match in the run home - or a FINAL - carrying a kid who might only get 65-70% game time! He needs to just get his body right while the rest of the team keeps on winning. Finishing out his year by playing some excellent but less physically taxing footy in the VFL might just give him the best chance at recuperating. Rest, recover, reload and go again next year when he might be better placed to do so!!

Thoughts??

[The Great One]

The umpiring yesterday was absolutely disgraceful. Pisses me off the absolute bias going on, particularly after 2016 GF.

Wouldn't have expected anything different playing against the Bulldogs. Every time we play them or Hawthorn we seem to be playing against almost perfect opponents.

Longmire never seems to complain. It is a conundrum as to whether he should or shouldn't.

[stevoswan]

I generally try to disregard the umpiring, but found myself yelling at the telly a fair bit thru that third quarter in particular. I don't believe there is bias against us, corruption / cheating etc, though at times it seems incompetence is the main concern. I'm probably more aligned with the school of thought that questions why is it that in 2021 umpires are still not fully professional, when you consider some of the superfluous constructs that have crept into the game in the past decade such as AFL X and some of the soft cap indulgences.

Could boundary umpires also be tasked with calling free kicks that field umpires aren't in a position to judge? (Though from yesterday's vision they seem to be struggling with their own domains).
It's an issue crying out for a solution.

So it's just a coincidence that it's nearly always us on the negative end this 'incompetence'? We are perennially on the bottom of the free kick differential at seasons end. No, there is definitely prejudice against us and no doubt there is straight out bias towards the Fairypups and other Vic based teams.

Remember, it's the A(V)FL we are talking about. They are fully aware of where and who the heartland is....and as for the boundary umpires making decisions, just forget it, half of them can't even throw the ball back into play properly. It's embarrassing and I agree with you that it's an issue crying out for a solution. However, based on this league's history of 'finding solutions', I am not holding my breath for an adequate outcome.

Making umpires fully professional would be a start but it's no guarantee that anything coming out of a biased Vic based boardroom will help in the long run.

[snajik]

I find it hard to weigh into these RB discussions objectively because he's one of my faves. I think it's good of you to acknowledge his injury affected season and the preference to play him for 60-70% of game time. His best is clearly better than what he has shown so far this year, I believe due to his injuries. Interestingly his stats for 2021 are all above career average, so on some levels he is being undervalued.
I'm not a great one for obsessing over team composition or individual strengths and weaknesses. I trust the MC to make all the right moves as they so often do.
Could be that the team has just hit some form and they would have played to this level whether RB had been included these last few weeks or not. Remember when we got trounced by Hawthorn (17th at the time, and played at the SCG) a few weeks back? Virtually the same team played Footscray yesterday. No Rowbottom, no McDonald. Replaced by Gulden and Blakey. Good ins no doubt, particularly with Blakey's refound form and new role, but on paper you'd think not enough to recover from a shellacking by Hawthorn to knock over the top side on their home deck.
We've seen glimpses of RB's class this year. It could be argued that he won us the game against Geelong with that clutch goal, he broke the deadlock against Collingwood with some tough inside play that lead to a goal, and his goal against Freo was a pearler (shame we didn't get the points).
He needs to come back fully fit though I agree, and when he is I reckon he'll find his way back in. After all he is the #1 pressure player from the #1 pressure side in the comp. Kind of makes sense.

[rojo]

Hi joeykango if you are reading this! You asked about accessing ABC broadcasts of the games. If you have access to AFL.com.au and go to the Swans match day page you can click on watch live, if the game is being televised FTA or listen live. If the latter, a drop down list magically appears and you have a choice of radio stations broadcasting the game. I usually choose the ABC but if I don't like the commentators (bias) I switch to SEN. Otherwise i am not knowledgeable 're bandwidths. I am in northern Tasmania and our local ABC always broadcasts a game but it may not be the game you want, if 2 games are on at about the same time.

Strangely, I find it a whole lot less stressful listening to games if i have to be out and about, and then relax and enjoy, or not, watching, later!!

[dejavoodoo44]

Agree with that. Errol shows remarkable skills and precision for a first year player. Dawson has always exhibited these skills, but now seems to be in the right position for the team. I reckon we can improve further once Papley and Heeney find another gear. They're currently both still below their best.

Gulden's arrival is possibly even more than remarkable, than how it seems on the surface. In that, it's generally accepted, that a player needs a bit of time to adapt, to the increased speed and pressure of a higher level. An academy player usually needs a bit of time to make their mark at VFL/NEAFL level. Somebody who's been running around in the VFL, takes a while to shine in the AFL. However, in 2020, when Gulden should have been getting a few games in the NEAFL, the NEAFL was cancelled. The NAB League and the U18 state games were also cancelled. So, he only really played a couple of academy games against the Giants and a season in the Sydney league. Which means that he's more or less jumped from the SFL to the AFL.

So, despite a brilliant start, he's probably still adapting to the much higher level. In a season or two, his ball use should be truly remarkable. I'm looking forward to that. And I suspect that a few of our forwards are too.

[bloodspirit]

So it's just a coincidence that it's nearly always us on the negative end this 'incompetence'? We are perennially on the bottom of the free kick differential at seasons end. No, there is definitely prejudice against us and no doubt there is straight out bias towards the Fairypups and other Vic based teams.

You keep saying this, stevo, and it's not true. In fact Richmond has by FAR the worst free kick differential. Last time I checked they were based in Victoria.

However, the Bulldogs (and West Coast) do do consistently well in terms of free kick differential and we tend to languish towards the bottom. West Coast is not a VFL side. And the Bulldogs are not one of the big power clubs. Conversely, we have not fared well with the umps generally over the Longmire era (dunno before that).

I tend to think it is more to do with gamestyle and coaching. I don't subscribe to umpire bias theory (except affirmation bias).

None of which is to say it is not frustrating when we get soft frees against us and the opposition get away with repeated infringements.

Anyway, Mongrel Punt has published their typically quality review of the game: Sydney v Western Bulldogs - The Good, Bad and Ugly - The Mongrel Punt. You'll be pleased to see they comment on the umpiring.

[NeonBible]

I find it hard to weigh into these RB discussions objectively because he's one of my faves. I think it's good of you to acknowledge his injury affected season and the preference to play him for 60-70% of game time. His best is clearly better than what he has shown so far this year, I believe due to his injuries. Interestingly his stats for 2021 are all above career average, so on some levels he is being undervalued.
I'm not a great one for obsessing over team composition or individual strengths and weaknesses. I trust the MC to make all the right moves as they so often do.
Could be that the team has just hit some form and they would have played to this level whether RB had been included these last few weeks or not. Remember when we got trounced by Hawthorn (17th at the time, and played at the SCG) a few weeks back? Virtually the same team played Footscray yesterday. No Rowbottom, no McDonald. Replaced by Gulden and Blakey. Good ins no doubt, particularly with Blakey's refound form and new role, but on paper you'd think not enough to recover from a shellacking by Hawthorn to knock over the top side on their home deck.
We've seen glimpses of RB's class this year. It could be argued that he won us the game against Geelong with that clutch goal, he broke the deadlock against Collingwood with some tough inside play that lead to a goal, and his goal against Freo was a pearler (shame we didn't get the points).
He needs to come back fully fit though I agree, and when he is I reckon he'll find his way back in. After all he is the #1 pressure player from the #1 pressure side in the comp. Kind of makes sense.

Hi snajik,

I'm with you on Rowy, he is one of my favourites and i'm sure there are many others who are the same! He's a great kid and player. Has had some fantastic moments this year and has never stopped trying.

The question worth asking is do we think he can improve and get to the level we know he can play at in order to earn his spot in the 22?? Big question mark! Any games from here out he will probably have to be managed and that might be too much of a liability for a team challenging for top 8/top 4! I would love to see him part of our young brigade taking to the field in our first finals match since 2018!! But might be best to play the long game with him as we've seen this year that pushing him too far hasn't made him any better!

[Markwebbos]

It’s a great review from TMP and singles out that ridiculous front on free against JMac.

[Sandrevan]

The nauseating commentator "Nige" was Nigel Carmody. I found him on Twitter. Please feel free to provide some candid feedback on his performance as a 'commentator'

[rojo]

It is great to read the discussion, thoughts and reflections of the posts on the last few pages, especially as they vastly outnumber the umpire-centric posts (after the 1st 20 such posts I suffer umpire-discussion phobia!).

If we don't have injuries, I agree with the suggestion to keep RB in the reserves in order to fully recover from his run with injury. It does highlight the concern around how we are going to fit all our young talented players into the top 22. Reports of Stephens and McDonald tearing it up in the reserves game and as already mentioned having Chad and Campbell waiting in the wings, as well as Reid and Melican, reveals the obvious - we cant! Unfortunately Ludwig may be right, we are going to have to face up to letting go of players we don't want to let go of. As to who it is, team balance has to be taken into account. There is a pathway for McDonald and Chad perhaps, (replacing Buddy, Reid and Joey and Melican is almost as injury prone as Reid) but who would we let go of to make way for the speedsters Stephens and Campbell? With Dawson, McInerney and Blakey covering the wings and half-back at the moment, they are not really suited to slot into the role of a Bell or Wicks.

Paps has not had many highlights lately. With Heeney and Hayward hitting their straps in the forward line and the role of McInerney, and now Dawson bursting in as well, and the crumbing of Wicks, Paps, a bit like Bud seems to be somewhat sidelined as the star of the forward line. Paps is still making important contributions but competition for the highlights is now fierce! Bud is still the man I suspect. It is exciting for the team and we fans.

[Captain]

The nauseating commentator "Nige" was Nigel Carmody. I found him on Twitter. Please feel free to provide some candid feedback on his performance as a 'commentator'

How would you like it if someone encouraged people to get on Twitter and give you some 'candid feedback' about your job (assuming though you actually have one)? I find your post absolute poor taste and stuff of a true keyboard warrior.

[Ludwig]

No argument about the Coaches Votes this week, especially the first 2.

10 Jordan Dawson (SYD)
8 Tom McCartin (SYD)
3 Bailey Smith (WB)
3 Luke Parker (SYD)
3 Alex Keath (WB)
2 Taylor Duryea (WB)
1 Caleb Daniel (WB)

[mcs]

How would you like it if someone encouraged people to get on Twitter and give you some 'candid feedback' about your job (assuming though you actually have one)? I find your post absolute poor taste and stuff of a true keyboard warrior.

Is the part in bold really necessarily? Your having a go at others for taking cheap 'keyboard warrior' shots, but then taking what could be interpreted as a pretty cheap shot in the process (who knows what the employment circumstance of said poster is - its entirely irrelevant anyway). Just seems entirely unnecessary and unhelpful.

And to be honest - Nige was nauseating yesterday. But as you suggest, he was just doing his job. Doesn't mean feedback shouldn't be provided - but I'd suggest there are more appropriate ways to do so then starting a twitter war.