Changes to R22 Against North Melbourne

[Bangalore Swans]

This is bang on.

To clarify my learning on the Wicks small forward role.

Could I simply recruit a GPS Rugby Half Back (one not likely to make Waratahs) to play the Wicks small forward role. This kid would be fast, aggressive, have good endurance and be able to nail amazing tackles on much bigger opponents. He’s also smart enough to watch 10 videos of Wicks play and learn where to position himself to block the space. You tell the kid that he would only need 5-8 possessions, but we’re looking for the 6-10 hard tackles and the pressure you’ll provide.

There is surly more needed for the Wicks forward position role than the above.

Can Barracuda add the missing pieces to the above analogy to the GPS halfback? It’s obviously not a position for talented and skilful AFL footballers like Chad or Florent.

[RogueSwan]

Me too, I think there is a lot of unwarranted Melican-hate on here....

The problem with Melican, from what I can tell, is that he takes more than 2-3 games to get back to his best. His injuries have not allowed him to do this. If he had half a dozen games in a row I think we would see what made him a potential Grundy replacement a few years back.

... And does Melican replace Fox or Rampe in a KPD role?

I think all 3 can play together, along with McCartin, Lloyd.
Dawson, Lizard and Harry to rotate through as required as all three can play wing too.

[Markwebbos]

The problem with Melican, from what I can tell, is that he takes more than 2-3 games to get back to his best. His injuries have not allowed him to do this. If he had half a dozen games in a row I think we would see what made him a potential Grundy replacement a few years back.

I think all 3 can play together, along with McCartin, Lloyd.
Dawson, Lizard and Harry to rotate through as required as all three can play wing too.

Question is which defenders play which roles. Does Melican take #2 fwd, Fox #3 freeing up Rampe? Or are the KPDs McCartin / Melican / Rampe, in which case what does Fox do?
Harry is our specialist small lockdown defender these days. I wonder if Fox could play that role?

[Blood Fever]

To clarify my learning on the Wicks small forward role.

Could I simply recruit a GPS Rugby Half Back (one not likely to make Waratahs) to play the Wicks small forward role. This kid would be fast, aggressive, have good endurance and be able to nail amazing tackles on much bigger opponents. He’s also smart enough to watch 10 videos of Wicks play and learn where to position himself to block the space. You tell the kid that he would only need 5-8 possessions, but we’re looking for the 6-10 hard tackles and the pressure you’ll provide.

There is surly more needed for the Wicks forward position role than the above.

Can Barracuda add the missing pieces to the above analogy to the GPS halfback? It’s obviously not a position for talented and skilful AFL footballers like Chad or Florent.

I hope nobody is naive enough to engage with this stuff

[barracuda]

To clarify my learning on the Wicks small forward role.

Could I simply recruit a GPS Rugby Half Back (one not likely to make Waratahs) to play the Wicks small forward role. This kid would be fast, aggressive, have good endurance and be able to nail amazing tackles on much bigger opponents. He’s also smart enough to watch 10 videos of Wicks play and learn where to position himself to block the space. You tell the kid that he would only need 5-8 possessions, but we’re looking for the 6-10 hard tackles and the pressure you’ll provide.

There is surly more needed for the Wicks forward position role than the above.

Can Barracuda add the missing pieces to the above analogy to the GPS halfback? It’s obviously not a position for talented and skilful AFL footballers like Chad or Florent.

Can I suggest you look at his extended highlights from games earlier in the year. He did way more than you describe, or a rugby player could do. Elite ball use, contested possessions and goals. No one is disputing he is tired and did not play well last week. But obviously the swans believe they need him fully firing for finals, and that he makes can make an important contribution. Otherwise they would have gone in a different direction.

Let me give you an example, the swans present the game ball to a player each week that they believe makes the most important contribution for the win. Wicks has won it several times including the job he did on Brodie Smith against the crows.

This kid was raised in Sydney, has no elite physical talents, was never picked in the talent teams, never played allies, was not drafted in his draft year, but has worked and fought his way into the best 22 of a finals bound team by playing the role no one wants. He was recruited as a cat b, the lowest of the low, but has held out several top 10 picks. He has played some amazing footy, eg 10 coaches votes against Richmond, but his young body is now tired. Why can’t you just celebrate this achievement and accept he should have a rest. Chris Smith has said Wicks is the player from the Academy he is most proud of, because he had to fight the whole way.

[Roadrunner]

Great changes this week. I'm not a fan of Lloyd, but know that it's just rest and he'll be there through finals. So be it.

Campbell - where he plays is really interesting. If he's a Lloyd replacement, then you'd struggle to see him getting retained for finals, with Lloyd due back. So he's probably competing with Fox for the last position in the back 7.

Warner clearly isn't ready yet, otherwise he'd either be in, or an emergency. The type of injury he had isn't easy to come back from. We're only just seeing Campbell return, and Warner occurred later.

The comments about both McLean and Wicks highlight one thing - people don't understand the role of the different parts of our forward line.
No, Wicks cannot be easily replaced by Papley, or Warner, or McDonald. It's a completely different role. It's a shut down role - you give that to Papley and you sacrifice 3 goals a game.

And McDonald isn't a key forward yet. Any of McKay, Tarrant or Walker would rag doll him. He's not ready to be a key target. McLean is capable of being serviceable in that role.
And Amartey is sitting behind Reid for the forward/ruck role.
Arguing over some of these different players is really apples and oranges. Just because they are all forwards doesn't make them the same.

No you don’t have a feel for the game. You constantly want to pick the most talented players and put them in roles they are not suited for. Whereas the swans have done rather well, and keep talking about players having a role. We have seen Warner try to play small defensive forward and he was terrible, and got dropped for it. Clearly Wicks is doing what they want him to, despite a poor game last week, otherwise they wouldn’t pick him. If you want a sense of how bleak the small defensive forwards role is I suggest you read Brandon jacks book. I remember talking to Dan Robinson about the role. He said he hated it. All you did was run up and down the field blocking space. You couldn’t go to any stoppages, and there was little opportunity. A parade of players have gone through the club unable to show the discipline to play the role, eg James rose. James rose had way more talent than wicks, yet wicks is still there. I suggest you try to understand this stuff or you will never progress beyond your endless comments attacking players whose job you don’t understand.

Thanks for clarifying the role that Wicks plays. It is a bit strange to me as I grew up thinking a forward’s job was to score or help others score and not to just negate your opponent. However, in the modern game it s
eems that a lot more emphasis is placed on defensive play and preventing attacks from the HB line. Hence the coaches picking Wicks. I can understand that.

My point really boils down to this: ideally, I would like all our forwards capable of applying pressure while being creative enough to score and/or assist in scoring on a regular basis. If we could achieve this, we would win just about every game. Why can’t we aim for all 6 of our forwards doing this? Gun midfielders need to be tagged but our forwards need to be creative- we should simply outscore the opposition. It makes for attractive, winning football.

[111431]

Can I suggest you look at his extended highlights from games earlier in the year. He did way more than you describe, or a rugby player could do. Elite ball use, contested possessions and goals. No one is disputing he is tired and did not play well last week. But obviously the swans believe they need him fully firing for finals, and that he makes can make an important contribution. Otherwise they would have gone in a different direction.

Let me give you an example, the swans present the game ball to a player each week that they believe makes the most important contribution for the win. Wicks has won it several times including the job he did on Brodie Smith against the crows.

This kid was raised in Sydney, has no elite physical talents, was never picked in the talent teams, never played allies, was not drafted in his draft year, but has worked and fought his way into the best 22 of a finals bound team by playing the role no one wants. He was recruited as a cat b, the lowest of the low, but has held out several top 10 picks. He has played some amazing footy, eg 10 coaches votes against Richmond, but his young body is now tired. Why can’t you just celebrate this achievement and accept he should have a rest. Chris Smith has said Wicks is the player from the Academy he is most proud of, because he had to fight the whole way.

A wonderful insight from someone who understands the nuances of what makes a successful team. Thanks

[Bangalore Swans]

Can I suggest you look at his extended highlights from games earlier in the year. He did way more than you describe, or a rugby player could do. Elite ball use, contested possessions and goals. No one is disputing he is tired and did not play well last week. But obviously the swans believe they need him fully firing for finals, and that he makes can make an important contribution. Otherwise they would have gone in a different direction.

Let me give you an example, the swans present the game ball to a player each week that they believe makes the most important contribution for the win. Wicks has won it several times including the job he did on Brodie Smith against the crows.

This kid was raised in Sydney, has no elite physical talents, was never picked in the talent teams, never played allies, was not drafted in his draft year, but has worked and fought his way into the best 22 of a finals bound team by playing the role no one wants. He was recruited as a cat b, the lowest of the low, but has held out several top 10 picks. He has played some amazing footy, eg 10 coaches votes against Richmond, but his young body is now tired. Why can’t you just celebrate this achievement and accept he should have a rest. Chris Smith has said Wicks is the player from the Academy he is most proud of, because he had to fight the whole way.

Brilliant post and thank you. I now have a much greater appreciation for Sam Wicks and the job he does for team.

[707]

Can I suggest you look at his extended highlights from games earlier in the year. He did way more than you describe, or a rugby player could do. Elite ball use, contested possessions and goals. No one is disputing he is tired and did not play well last week. But obviously the swans believe they need him fully firing for finals, and that he makes can make an important contribution. Otherwise they would have gone in a different direction.

Let me give you an example, the swans present the game ball to a player each week that they believe makes the most important contribution for the win. Wicks has won it several times including the job he did on Brodie Smith against the crows.

This kid was raised in Sydney, has no elite physical talents, was never picked in the talent teams, never played allies, was not drafted in his draft year, but has worked and fought his way into the best 22 of a finals bound team by playing the role no one wants. He was recruited as a cat b, the lowest of the low, but has held out several top 10 picks. He has played some amazing footy, eg 10 coaches votes against Richmond, but his young body is now tired. Why can’t you just celebrate this achievement and accept he should have a rest. Chris Smith has said Wicks is the player from the Academy he is most proud of, because he had to fight the whole way.

Excellent post Barra. It's why the MC always knows better than RWO, even though we often like to think they don't!

[Maltopia]

Selections have been made.

McLean, Campbell and Melican in for Buddy (managed), Lloyd (sore knee) and Stephens (omitted).

[crackedactor 01]

With the bigger bodies of McLean and Melican it appears they want more physical presence out there. Too many were EASILY pushed aside in last week's game.

[royboy42]

OMG that's amazing what she had to go through. Imagine if she went into labour in hotel quarantine!

That would open up a whole new , probably as yet unfaced problem.

[barracuda]

Thanks for clarifying the role that Wicks plays. It is a bit strange to me as I grew up thinking a forward’s job was to score or help others score and not to just negate your opponent. However, in the modern game it s
eems that a lot more emphasis is placed on defensive play and preventing attacks from the HB line. Hence the coaches picking Wicks. I can understand that.

My point really boils down to this: ideally, I would like all our forwards capable of applying pressure while being creative enough to score and/or assist in scoring on a regular basis. If we could achieve this, we would win just about every game. Why can’t we aim for all 6 of our forwards doing this? Gun midfielders need to be tagged but our forwards need to be creative- we should simply outscore the opposition. It makes for attractive, winning football.

Your point is astute. AFL sides are always looking for that holy grail of forwards, the player who is both elite in attack and defence. Unfortunately they are not common, but can have a massive impact. Look at Richmonds success. Hayward is getting better defensively, papley is a bit patchy. Gulden still a bit light bodied to really defend, but still elite. I think in some ways Wicks greatest contribution this year has been role modelling the defensive pressure for the rest of the team. I still think for a young player he is gassed, but we will see tomorrow night!

[The Runner]

Most good teams have players like Wicks in them.
The Giants have Daniel Lloyd. He's a very different player to the incredible Toby Greene.
Richmond are shuffling theirs around. It used to be Costagna, now I think it's Baker.
The Bulldogs appear to be playing Johannesin in the role.
McCarthy does it at Brisbane, whilst Charlie Cameron plays the attacking forward role.

Yes, every player needs to be defensively minded and apply pressure.
But, if you think of Papley, Heeney and Franklin. Their value comes from how they find the ball (leading, pack marking, crumbing) and what they do with it. They are the players that put bums on seats.
But the defensive forward focuses on shutting down the most dominant creator off half back. And getting in the way (legally) of the full back. And creating referred pressure across the front half. And then, if they are good enough, finding the footy and doing something positive with it when the moment presents.

But, when Wicks sits down for his review on Monday morning, the first question will not be "how many goals did you kick" or "how'd you go finding the footy this week?".
It will be "how'd you create space for Buddy? How'd you stop the defender from creating for them?"
He's the kind of guy Buddy and Papley would list as crucial to their success.

Now, that's defining the role. Whether he's the best on the list to do that each week, that's up to the MC. The only other player I see being capable to fill that role is Sheather, but he's not ready yet.
So, unless they view another player as capable of those roles, he stays in the 22. And guys like Warner, Papley, Rowbottom etc stick to the lanes they are best at.

[Roadrunner]

Most good teams have players like Wicks in them.
The Giants have Daniel Lloyd. He's a very different player to the incredible Toby Greene.
Richmond are shuffling theirs around. It used to be Costagna, now I think it's Baker.
The Bulldogs appear to be playing Johannesin in the role.
McCarthy does it at Brisbane, whilst Charlie Cameron plays the attacking forward role.

Yes, every player needs to be defensively minded and apply pressure.
But, if you think of Papley, Heeney and Franklin. Their value comes from how they find the ball (leading, pack marking, crumbing) and what they do with it. They are the players that put bums on seats.
But the defensive forward focuses on shutting down the most dominant creator off half back. And getting in the way (legally) of the full back. And creating referred pressure across the front half. And then, if they are good enough, finding the footy and doing something positive with it when the moment presents.

But, when Wicks sits down for his review on Monday morning, the first question will not be "how many goals did you kick" or "how'd you go finding the footy this week?".
It will be "how'd you create space for Buddy? How'd you stop the defender from creating for them?"
He's the kind of guy Buddy and Papley would list as crucial to their success.

Now, that's defining the role. Whether he's the best on the list to do that each week, that's up to the MC. The only other player I see being capable to fill that role is Sheather, but he's not ready yet.
So, unless they view another player as capable of those roles, he stays in the 22. And guys like Warner, Papley, Rowbottom etc stick to the lanes they are best at.

Thanks Runner- I’m starting to get the picture! Perhaps due to the limited vision on the TV that I don’t appreciate his defensive role. Just wishing he could be involved in scores a bit more but in fairness he is young and hasn’t got a lot of games under his belt. I trust our coaches in picking him, even when I didn’t think he had earned his spot.

Happy now and hope he goes well against Norf, the Sins and then the finals!