Swans v Giants Elimination Final 2021

[caj23]

+1 I don’t get the criticism of coaches, MC on here. Even if Bell was the wrong choice, we played without 3 key players and should have won if we kicked any one of the 6 consecutive behinds in the last quarter.

Many posters on here have stated that it doesn't matter who the 22nd player is because they won't make any difference, I think Saturday proved that theory wrong.

Yes we still could've/should've won the game but it demonstrates that it's a game of inches and every little advantage (and disadvantage) can be the difference between making a prelim and bombing out in the first week of the finals

[mcs]

Many posters on here have stated that it doesn't matter who the 22nd player is because they won't make any difference, I think Saturday proved that theory wrong.

Yes we still could've/should've won the game but it demonstrates that it's a game of inches and every little advantage (and disadvantage) can be the difference between making a prelim and bombing out in the first week of the finals

Rather than talk about the 22nd player, I feel thinking about the 'bottom six' highlights a more useful discussion without having to get into arguments about individual players.

[barry]

Are you serious? Buddy has had an amazing season and the kick from 50 was hardly a gimme.

I won't comment any further on Bell's selection or performance on the day and season because it's already been done, but the size of his pay cheque doesn't make him immune from criticism

Buddy is paid 5 times more than Bell this year. Five times the performance is expected. Kicked a clutch goal inside 50 to win the game is whats expected of the very top earners. Your Dusty's, your bonts, and the most expensive of all, your buddy's.
He should be defintely in the frame for blame for that game.

And speak of the season, he was "good for his age", but definately not good for someone on 1.5 million.

- - - Updated - - -

So you'd like to be the first speaker for the negative, when it come time to debate/evaluate Buddy's career?

I dont know what that means, but he didnt deliver when it counted in the final on saturday. Thats my point.
Stop picking on the bottom 4 players. They arent there to win you finals. Your most expensive assets are.

[bandwagon]

+1 I don’t get the criticism of coaches, MC on here. Even if Bell was the wrong choice, we played without 3 key players and should have won if we kicked any one of the 6 consecutive behinds in the last quarter.

Exactly. Also the MC choices were line-ball, none were key players i.e. O'Riordan or Fox, McLean or Reid, Bell or Campbell.

[giant]

Many here have focused on the missed shots in the last 15 minutes of the game but we missed opportunities throughout the game. I seem to recall Wilbur missing a soda in the first half and Rowbottom missing a very gettable shot on the run. Paps had several snaps that were off the mark. In short, our inability to finish our good play occurred throughout the game and across many players. Its a collective responsibility rather than one to be pushed onto Bell or someone else. That loss will hurt but should be seen as a step along the evolution of the team.

Arguably one of the turning points in the game was when Heeney dropped a simple mark (especially by his standards) which led directly to Hogan's goal after the 3Q siren. As you say, there are many many such moments.

[giant]

Actually Barry....you are wrong.

Toby Greene second angle - YouTube

He's f*&$ed.

[0918330512]

Buddy is paid 5 times more than Bell this year. Five times the performance is expected. [/COLOR]



I dont know what that means, but he didnt deliver when it counted in the final on saturday. Thats my point.
Stop picking on the bottom 4 players. They arent there to win you finals. Your most expensive assets are.

Buddy might be paid 5 times as much as Bell this year, but he’s kicked 25 times as many goals as Bell, 5th in the AFL Goal Kicking, won our goal kicking, with at least two opponents hanging off him and barry on his back too. He’s doing ok for his $1.5M

[barry]

He’s doing ok for his $1.5M

I politely disagree. We give him too much latitude these days.

[Maltopia]

I politely disagree. We give him too much latitude these days.

That’s fine but it isn’t reasonable to use the $1.5M salary as the comparison as his contract was deliberately backended heavily and includes value from previous years.

His contract value also includes bums on seats (when crowds allowed) and merch sales to keep our club profitable.

As a guesstimate, we are paying him say $600k for this year as a 34 year old, with the other $900K averaged out over the first nine years.

[barracuda]

You can say all you like. The fact buddy, papley and Hayward had a grand total of 4 possessions between them in the last quarter says it all to me. It was actually the young ones who stood up and tried to win the game. They should not have had to carry that.

[Industrial Fan]

Arguably one of the turning points in the game was when Heeney dropped a simple mark (especially by his standards) which led directly to Hogan's goal after the 3Q siren. As you say, there are many many such moments.

I thought he got pushed for that contest tbh

[Agent 86]

Arguably one of the turning points in the game was when Heeney dropped a simple mark (especially by his standards) which led directly to Hogan's goal after the 3Q siren. As you say, there are many many such moments.

We conceded goals in last minute of each of the first 3 quarters. Each one against the run of play - got smashed early in q2 but had regained some momentum there.

We did the same in all 4 quarters vs Norf a few weeks earlier. That the GWS crew were onto this and we weren’t was a coaching fail. Sorry Horse.

[Matty10]

That’s fine but it isn’t reasonable to use the $1.5M salary as the comparison as his contract was deliberately backended heavily and includes value from previous years.

Well said. It is ridiculous to draw the connection between his salary this year and expected performance.

Assessing performance is a difficult task as there are so many variables. If Buddy kicks straight from outside 50 mean is he worth the salary? If the Swans win are the coaches and match committee above criticism? The fact is we had way more inside 50s, more shots on goal and plenty of chances to win.

I wanted Fox and Reid in for the match, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that would have changed the result. No matter what argument anyone now puts up now, about this or anything else, the hypothesised result can never be known.

Everyone (coaches, players and MC) did what they thought was best, and we lost. That’s hard to deal with, but I’m not sure that recriminations are in order. That’s just the way our cookie crumbled. Sure, we need to perform better under pressure, but that is a story for moving forward not looking back.

[Mel_C]

I thought he was whining about his free kick being turned around after he elbowed JMac in the throat?

Yes that's what I thought as well. Except it was umpire Nicholls that paid the reversal free so Toby directed his anger at the wrong umpire. Whatever his reasoning he is going to pay for his selfishness and so is his club.

[Ludwig]

Everyone (coaches, players and MC) did what they thought was best, and we lost. That’s hard to deal with, but I’m not sure that recriminations are in order.

We need to back off a bit, lest TBD and the entire foundation of RWO logic be undermined.