Swans v Giants Elimination Final 2021

[barry]

Where’s that “quote” from Barry?

I'm channelling the mindset of Stevic matching his actions, in an incident (or series of incidents) which directly impact the swans, so align it to a RWO context.

[KTigers]

I'm channelling the mindset of Stevic matching his actions, in an incident (or series of incidents) which directly impact the swans, so align it to a RWO context.

Channelling the mindset of Matt Stevic. That is a slippery slope man. Before you know it, you'll be at the Bulldogs' post season BBQ.

[Aprilbr]

I find some of this discussion on Stevic to be quite distasteful. He probably made a number of umpiring mistakes on that fateful day 5 years ago but to label him as corrupt is way over the top. I assume that alleged quote above was a joke not real? Have some respect for umpires and the difficult job that they do. Our game is so hard to umpire.

[stevoswan]

Stevic's done more harm to the swans than a 100 Toby Greenes have done.
This is why I want to hear Stevics side of the story. Just to hear how flawed a character he really is.

And to be honest, the way umps are treated in AFL is weird. All these clowns on bigfooty saying the umps are "sacrosant" (ahhh!), are the same clowns yelling abuse at them all day from the grand stand.
Soccer refs get right in the middle of fights and break them up. Cop the odd push and shove (harmless) and get on with it. If Toby Green did that to a soccer ref it wouldnt even by commented on.
Yet, Soccer has less trouble getting refs at junior level than AFL does. So the correlation between touching a ref and junior ref participation is not supported by data.
(for the record, soccer still has trouble, but because they go into it knowing they are not treated with kid gloves, they last longer).

The toby-tax is real, and its all centred around the Vic-media narrative that the expansion clubs are evil, gifted, tassy blockers, etc. I saw Buddy fend off with an elbow to the throat in the final, as players do every game. Toby does it to vic-darling Dangerfield, and he gets a week. Its sickening.

My predictions:
If it was selwood who did same thing: a fine.
If it was a normal player: 1 week (because its missing a final).
If the AFL want to 'set an example': 2 weeks (give him a chance at a grand final).
Toby tax: 4 weeks.

Actually Barry, you're starting to sound like one of those people on 'Trumpers Say The Darndest Things' in your almost sycophantic defence of this grub....Buddy's fend off, in fact most players fend off's are nothing compared to Toby's 'fend off'. It wasn't a fend off, it was an opportunistic attempted take out of a star opposition player and it worked.....out for the rest of the game. He deserved his week off and this time around, he will deserve whatever suspension he gets. No matter how much we all hate Stevic, he is still an umpire and players just can't do what Toby did.....I can't see how you can't see this. Toby-worship blinkers?

BTW, I watched a British guy on youtube reacting to Toby's ump bump and he is actually a soccer ref in England (who loves Aussie Rules). He reckons Toby should get multiple weeks because in his words "in England you just cannot even touch a ref!". He also said that soccer actually is having trouble getting ref's at lower level's due to attacks on ref's, both verbal and physical.....so not sure where you're getting your 'facts' from. Just FoxNews style 'alternate' facts maybe, ie: made up?

If there is indeed a Toby tax, another very questionable claim, he has brought it on himself with his uncontrollable temper, ill discipline and lack of respect for opposition players and now, match officials.....and when you think about it, his own team who, through this out of control behaviour, he constantly lets down.

The league must make a stand on this issue. I hope they have some balls for once.

[Faunac8]

Might be best if we climb down off our milk crates I think. We have players that do the high fend-offs and duck for free kicks.
God, even Parker did it on Saturday. Does anyone think for a second Greg Williams was the only player receiving under the
table payments back in the day? We all know Barry Hall shouldn't have played in the 2005 GF. And then we don't win it.
All this holier-than-thou stuff is a bit tiresome. And if I hear one more person go on about how this player or that player isn't
a good "role model" for "the kids". Seriously, who in their right mind would want their kid to have a footballer who they don't
know from a block of wood as a "role model" rather than themselves?

Absolutely agree we have had a few things go our way as well .
In regard to role models anyone who is paid to entertain others is probably not going to have the character traits that you would want your kids to aspire to , unless you are simply hoping to create a narcissistic self absorbed child in the vague hope that they will one day be “famous” and earn enough money to be able to support you.
And as I mentioned the other day in another thread let’s not forget this we were not exactly innocent of this type of behaviour

In February 1992, it was uncovered that both Williams and the Sydney Swans had breached the league's salary regulations. I Williams had received additional, undeclared payments via one of Sydney's sponsors during the 1990 season, with both the club and the player aware of the rort. Both plead guilty to the AFL. The club was fined $50,000, and Williams was fined $25,000 and de-registered by the league for eleven weeks. Williams was in his first pre-season with Carlton at the time, and his debut for the club was delayed until Round 7 as a result of the deregistration.

[stevoswan]

Im following it here:
TOBY'S UMP BUMP: Greene at the Tribunal LIVE from 9am AEST

Stevic is himself caught up in the media frenzy. (Makes sense when you equate it to the fairy-pups 2016 romance).

Stevic says that in the moment he didn't feel the contact was disrespectful, aggressive or demonstrative. He also says it was minor. However, having viewed the incident since, and having realised he didn't contribute to the incident, he says: "To be honest, I don't think it's a good look for the game. I don't believe the contact was forceful. I would say there is an element of it being disrespectful."

in other words: "At the time it was nothing, but now listening to gerard on AFL360, throw the book at him"

Oh dear....that's plain embarrassing Barry. You should stop.....you really should.

[Nico]

I find some of this discussion on Stevic to be quite distasteful. He probably made a number of umpiring mistakes on that fateful day 5 years ago but to label him as corrupt is way over the top. I assume that alleged quote above was a joke not real? Have some respect for umpires and the difficult job that they do. Our game is so hard to umpire.

Agree. Our mutual friend John, who is veteran umpire, will tell anyone who wants to listen, that almost every decision is disputed. Funny how when he umpires women's football he rarely gets disputed.

[mcs]

I find some of this discussion on Stevic to be quite distasteful. He probably made a number of umpiring mistakes on that fateful day 5 years ago but to label him as corrupt is way over the top. I assume that alleged quote above was a joke not real? Have some respect for umpires and the difficult job that they do. Our game is so hard to umpire.

I will never suggest an umpire is 'corrupt' - because that has very specific connotations, and is well beyond the usual criticism of an umpiring just being 'crap' at what is an increasingly difficult task. I've seen nothing to suggest Stevic (or any other umpire) in recent times shows any tendency of corruption - that is most definitely the wrong word to be used in this regard (unless of course there is genuine evidence of 'corrupt' behaviour).

However, I do honestly think we have certainly been on the end of some exceptionally questionable decision making from Stevic on multiple occasions. The 2016 grand final of course the pinnacle, but he made some very odd decisions in the 2012 decider too (and I can remember a few other games in the Hawks/Swans space around that time where many were left wondering if he was the secret #1 Hawks ticket holder).

- - - Updated - - -

Gee Barry, do we need to start a 'remember the days of the Old Grand Lady' thread to get you away from this Trumpist like rambling?

[barry]

I will never suggest an umpire is 'corrupt' - because that has very specific connotations, and is well beyond the usual criticism of an umpiring just being 'crap' at what is an increasingly difficult task. I've seen nothing to suggest Stevic (or any other umpire) in recent times shows any tendency of corruption - that is most definitely the wrong word to be used in this regard (unless of course there is genuine evidence of 'corrupt' behaviour).
:

I never deal in absolutes, only a sith lord does that.
Everything from covid-19, to climate change, to AFL umpiring is just a series of probabilities. And those probabilities suggest, strongly suggest, but never prove anything.
But you can lead a good life, in a good society by balancing the probablities to determine the viewpoint (with a margin of error).

So, by combining the fact that Stevic, and the three other umpires didnt pay free kick to the swans in 3 quarters of football (extremely statistically improbable in a fairly umpired game), Stevics history (#freekickhawthorn), todays comment about Greene which suggests a media-led review changed his opinions, that....

Stevic was bias in his umpiring against the swans in the 2016 GF with a 99.99% confidence, +/- 10% error, and the bias was driven by positive media coverage of the dogs fairytale: 98% confidence, +/- 20% error.
Its simple maths.

I call it corruption. Same as a disproportionate influence of property developers on state governments is called corruption.

That mathematical analsys should be being done in AFL HQ, and it should have meant stevic would never umpire a final again. But I doubt Gill has much time for maths.

[stevoswan]

From the live feed:

Jeff Gleeson QC lodges his final submission, saying that "umpires are untouchable". He continues: "It's fundamental to our game … that the umpire is respected. The moment any of us deviate from enforcing that rule, because it's hard, is the moment we change the game and the way our umpires are treated." Gleeson says Greene "complained, swore, got in his face, and bumped him". He said Greene's actions were "insolent and contemptuous".

Pretty spot on in my book. The jury now deliberates.....

[barry]

From the live feed:

Jeff Gleeson QC lodges his final submission, saying that "umpires are untouchable". He continues: "It's fundamental to our game … that the umpire is respected. The moment any of us deviate from enforcing that rule, because it's hard, is the moment we change the game and the way our umpires are treated." Gleeson says Greene "complained, swore, got in his face, and bumped him". He said Greene's actions were "insolent and contemptuous".

Pretty spot on in my book. The jury now deliberates.....

Thats a terrible ruling, because that swans guy who accidentally ran into the umpire last weekend would be 9 weeks if "umpires are untouchable". If Toby greene really wanted to hurt an umpire he could fake a clumsy umpire hit in general play.
It all comes down to intention I think. What was his intention.

[Faunac8]

I never deal in absolutes, only a sith lord does that.
Everything from covid-19, to climate change, to AFL umpiring is just a series of probabilities. And those probabilities suggest, strongly suggest, but never prove anything.
But you can lead a good life, in a good society by balancing the probablities to determine the viewpoint (with a margin of error).

So, by combining the fact that Stevic, and the three other umpires didnt pay free kick to the swans in 3 quarters of football (extremely statistically improbable in a fairly umpired game), Stevics history (#freekickhawthorn), todays comment about Greene which suggests a media-led review changed his opinions, that....

Stevic was bias in his umpiring against the swans in the 2016 GF with a 99.99% confidence, +/- 10% error, and the bias was driven by positive media coverage of the dogs fairytale: 98% confidence, +/- 20% error.
Its simple maths.

I call it corruption. Same as a disproportionate influence of property developers on state governments is called corruption.

That mathematical analsys should be being done in AFL HQ, and it should have meant stevic would never umpire a final again. But I doubt Gill has much time for maths.

And I thought that we may have moved on from inane unsubstantiated bizarre and simply ridiculous posts on here , I was wrong .
Would it help to get you back to reality if I said we should play home games at Homebush next year ?

[barry]

And I thought that we may have moved on from inane unsubstantiated bizarre and simply ridiculous posts on here , I was wrong .
Would it help to get you back to reality if I said we should play home games at Homebush next year ?

If you cant keep up with mathematics and probability, just let it go through to the keeper.
I am amazed at any true swans supporter who could let go of the travesty of 2016. Its still as raw as the day it happened to me.

[Faunac8]

If you cant keep up with mathematics and probability, just let it go through to the keeper.
I am amazed at any true swans supporter who could let go of the travesty of 2016. Its still as raw as the day it happened to me.

No one has let it go it was a travesty but we don’t all now wear tinfoil hats and use, and let’s be honest here, the facade of mathematics and probabilities skewed completely off track to attempt to justify our conspiracy theories.
No one could keep up with your 99.9% probabilities +-20% bull shirt you are not even clutching at straws you are tilting at windmills.

[barry]

No one has let it go it was a travesty but we don’t all now wear tinfoil hats and use, and let’s be honest here, the facade of mathematics and probabilities skewed completely off track to attempt to justify our conspiracy theories.
No one could keep up with your 99.9% probabilities +-20% bull shirt you are not even clutching at straws you are tilting at windmills.

Stupid is stupid. If you want to believe that Stevic was not bias in 2016, go right ahead. I presented my rationale. I need more than "the vibe" to be convinced otherwise.