BBBH

[mcs]

You have twisted my quote. I didn’t infer that Hookes was involved in a pub fight. All I said on David Hookes was that the situation was tragic. I then moved onto Mathews and Hall and where their hits had been committed.

There are two options here:

1) Nico apologise

2) Mods, please wipe Nico’s post and my reply off as well.

Where is Option 3) Bangalore stops dictating to the board what it must believes or how it must be moderated, gives up on this seeming never-ending crusade to try and demonstrate how everyone that disagrees is wrong, and provides us with an opportunity for a little more off season bliss, dreaming of fairy meadows, COVID less times and LRT Grand Final performances....

[KTigers]

Barry Hall ; Career 16 seasons, 289 games, 746 goals. For the Swans, his numbers were even better, 467 goals in 162 games.
He set up a lot of goals too as he would lead up the field a lot. He was a hard worker. Barry was a long long way from being
"a good average footballer".

[Velour&Ruffles]

Thank you. Finally a positive response to my post.

You are an odd bedfellow for me, BS, but I am with you on this one - at least to the key point of the respect we should give to BBBBH ... not so sure I mind about young upstarts giving feedback because I think about early Dan Hannebery and early Errol Gulden and I love the confidence that shows. But BBBBH has earned an exalted place in the Swans Pantheon.

There are a number of silly ideas on this thread, that seem to have become accepted wisdom. I'm not going to address specific posts, I will say this:

The idea that Barry had "numerous" issues as a Swans player is wrong. Sorry, but he just didn't. From 2002- PF 2005 he was a very solid citizen - that's how he was able to get a downgrade on his guilty finding for the stomach strike in the 2005 PF. He had at least three years where he was as upright as anyone else.

Less popularly (and I am sure I will be slammed for this, but I really don't care), go back and watch the game against the WCE where he ended up snotting Staker. I put the majority (yes, the majority) of the blame at the feet of the umpires. Staker was at him and at him and at him in constant breach of the rules for a full quarter but the umpires did nothing whatsoever. He was constantly being scragged and pinched and gut punched and blocked and nothing whatsoever was done. Nothing. That is not to excuse the reaction from Hall, which was clearly unacceptable, but it IS to say that if the umpires had done their job with even a remote hint of competency and enforced the actual rules of the competition a couple of times amongst the multiplicity of opportunities to do so, the situation would never have escalated to the boiling point that it did. Instead, it seemed they were being wilfully, obstinately blind. It was glaringly obvious what was going on - multiple umpires just “missing it” simply isn’t credible. Let's say the same enthusiasm for applying the rules had been as evident as it always was with Ablett, Judd and a few other leading players of the time ... it's X free kicks for Hall (and probably X goals, given his accuracy, which only deserted him after this point), not an 8 week suspension.

This is where comparisons with David Hookes and king hits in pubs breaks down. For that to be a valid comparison, you need the police to have been standing around in the pub implicitly endorsing Hookesy giving all sorts of @@@@@ to the bouncer - which is not how it was (and I've read the book). There's a big difference between a completely unexpected, unprovoked coward's punch and what Hall did. His reaction to sustained provocation was over the top and against the rules, but it's a bit like poking a hornets' nest or bear taunting - the reaction you get from the bear or the hornets may not be proportional to your actions, but they are nevertheless a reaction to your actions. The moral of the story is don't taunt bears and don't poke hornets' nests. It was totally within Staker's own power to avert the incident. If he hadn't been a bear taunting, hornets'-nest-poking cheat himself then he wouldn't have been clobbered. I have limited sympathy for someone who breaks the rules in a sustained way and then is the victim of the rules being broken against them in retaliation. Where my sympathy comes in is that overall it probably wasn't actually Staker's fault. He was no doubt following the instructions of his dickhead coach (who was a cheating thug as a player, who specialised in exactly these sorts of non-football actions) and was no doubt emboldened by the lamentable inaction of the officiators. He presumably had the (correct) impression that he had carte blanche from the authorities to do what he was doing. Staker was indeed a victim, but not solely of BBBBH.

BBBBH was colossal for us. As I said earlier, the idea he was just a "good average player" is beyond laughable. Look at his record. Watch his clutch kicks in the 2005PF and GF and ask yourself if that's a "good average player". Everything on the line. Seriously. He ended on a sad note, the problems at the end shouldn't overshadow what was an historic contribution to our club. It is fantastic to have him back.

[Bangalore Swans]

You are an odd bedfellow for me, BS, but I am with you on this one - at least to the key point of the respect we should give to BBBBH ... not so sure I mind about young upstarts giving feedback because I think about early Dan Hannebery and early Errol Gulden and I love the confidence that shows. But BBBBH has earned an exalted place in the Swans Pantheon.

There are a number of silly ideas on this thread, that seem to have become accepted wisdom. I'm not going to address specific posts, I will say this:

The idea that Barry had "numerous" issues as a Swans player is wrong. Sorry, but he just didn't. From 2002- PF 2005 he was a very solid citizen - that's how he was able to get a downgrade on his guilty finding for the stomach strike in the 2005 PF. He had at least three years where he was as upright as anyone else.

Less popularly (and I am sure I will be slammed for this, but I really don't care), go back and watch the game against the WCE where he ended up snotting Staker. I put the majority (yes, the majority) of the blame at the feet of the umpires. Staker was at him and at him and at him in constant breach of the rules for a full quarter but the umpires did nothing whatsoever. He was constantly being scragged and pinched and gut punched and blocked and nothing whatsoever was done. Nothing. That is not to excuse the reaction from Hall, which was clearly unacceptable, but it IS to say that if the umpires had done their job with even a remote hint of competency and enforced the actual rules of the competition a couple of times amongst the multiplicity of opportunities to do so, the situation would never have escalated to the boiling point that it did. Instead, it seemed they were being wilfully, obstinately blind. It was glaringly obvious what was going on - multiple umpires just “missing it” simply isn’t credible. Let's say the same enthusiasm for applying the rules had been as evident as it always was with Ablett, Judd and a few other leading players of the time ... it's X free kicks for Hall (and probably X goals, given his accuracy, which only deserted him after this point), not an 8 week suspension.

This is where comparisons with David Hookes and king hits in pubs breaks down. For that to be a valid comparison, you need the police to have been standing around in the pub implicitly endorsing Hookesy giving all sorts of @@@@@ to the bouncer - which is not how it was (and I've read the book). There's a big difference between a completely unexpected, unprovoked coward's punch and what Hall did. His reaction to sustained provocation was over the top and against the rules, but it's a bit like poking a hornets' nest or bear taunting - the reaction you get from the bear or the hornets may not be proportional to your actions, but they are nevertheless a reaction to your actions. The moral of the story is don't taunt bears and don't poke hornets' nests. It was totally within Staker's own power to avert the incident. If he hadn't been a bear taunting, hornets'-nest-poking cheat himself then he wouldn't have been clobbered. I have limited sympathy for someone who breaks the rules in a sustained way and then is the victim of the rules being broken against them in retaliation. Where my sympathy comes in is that overall it probably wasn't actually Staker's fault. He was no doubt following the instructions of his dickhead coach (who was a cheating thug as a player, who specialised in exactly these sorts of non-football actions) and was no doubt emboldened by the lamentable inaction of the officiators. He presumably had the (correct) impression that he had carte blanche from the authorities to do what he was doing. Staker was indeed a victim, but not solely of BBBBH.

BBBBH was colossal for us. As I said earlier, the idea he was just a "good average player" is beyond laughable. Look at his record. Watch his clutch kicks in the 2005PF and GF and ask yourself if that's a "good average player". Everything on the line. Seriously. He ended on a sad note, the problems at the end shouldn't overshadow what was an historic contribution to our club. It is fantastic to have him back.

Outstanding post.

My favourite ever commentator was a big Hall fan and that rubbed off on me.

Robert Wall’s loved Barry Hall. A tough, no nonsense commentator loved the tough, no nonsense player.

Wall’s could see Hall’s value to the Swans.

The sad thing for Barry was that the Swans effectively refused to let him play after the 2009 Adelaide game when he hit Ben Rutton.

Where was Barry’s farewell game when Barry, The Swans and Swans fans knew that he would be out at seasons end. The Swans were not making finals in 2009. Why not a farewell game.

K.Jack, and McVeigh got their glorious 2019 farewell game.

No farewell for Barry despite being more important to the Swans success than the above two players.

[Bangalore Swans]

Chad contacts BBBBH

Longmire's Swans culture-building initiative and how Barry Hall was involved

That’s how a young player should do it. Barry would have loved talking to Chad. Notice how Chad was on fire early in 2021. Barry made every Swan walk taller. It’s clear that Barry also lifted Chad.

I like Chad more now.

- - - Updated - - -

Chad contacts BBBBH

Longmire's Swans culture-building initiative and how Barry Hall was involved

That’s how a young player should do it. Barry would have loved talking to Chad. Notice how Chad was on fire early in 2021. Barry made every Swan walk taller. It’s clear that Barry also lifted Chad.

I like Chad more now.

[0918330512]

Chad contacts BBBBH

Longmire's Swans culture-building initiative and how Barry Hall was involved

Hah! That was an interesting read. Would have been nice to hear all the draftees experiences and more detail, or to have had the conversations played on the Swans website (like when players call members).

[Goal Sneak]

You are an odd bedfellow for me, BS, but I am with you on this one - at least to the key point of the respect we should give to BBBBH ... not so sure I mind about young upstarts giving feedback because I think about early Dan Hannebery and early Errol Gulden and I love the confidence that shows. But BBBBH has earned an exalted place in the Swans Pantheon.

There are a number of silly ideas on this thread, that seem to have become accepted wisdom. I'm not going to address specific posts, I will say this:

The idea that Barry had "numerous" issues as a Swans player is wrong. Sorry, but he just didn't. From 2002- PF 2005 he was a very solid citizen - that's how he was able to get a downgrade on his guilty finding for the stomach strike in the 2005 PF. He had at least three years where he was as upright as anyone else.

Less popularly (and I am sure I will be slammed for this, but I really don't care), go back and watch the game against the WCE where he ended up snotting Staker. I put the majority (yes, the majority) of the blame at the feet of the umpires. Staker was at him and at him and at him in constant breach of the rules for a full quarter but the umpires did nothing whatsoever. He was constantly being scragged and pinched and gut punched and blocked and nothing whatsoever was done. Nothing. That is not to excuse the reaction from Hall, which was clearly unacceptable, but it IS to say that if the umpires had done their job with even a remote hint of competency and enforced the actual rules of the competition a couple of times amongst the multiplicity of opportunities to do so, the situation would never have escalated to the boiling point that it did. Instead, it seemed they were being wilfully, obstinately blind. It was glaringly obvious what was going on - multiple umpires just “missing it” simply isn’t credible. Let's say the same enthusiasm for applying the rules had been as evident as it always was with Ablett, Judd and a few other leading players of the time ... it's X free kicks for Hall (and probably X goals, given his accuracy, which only deserted him after this point), not an 8 week suspension.

This is where comparisons with David Hookes and king hits in pubs breaks down. For that to be a valid comparison, you need the police to have been standing around in the pub implicitly endorsing Hookesy giving all sorts of @@@@@ to the bouncer - which is not how it was (and I've read the book). There's a big difference between a completely unexpected, unprovoked coward's punch and what Hall did. His reaction to sustained provocation was over the top and against the rules, but it's a bit like poking a hornets' nest or bear taunting - the reaction you get from the bear or the hornets may not be proportional to your actions, but they are nevertheless a reaction to your actions. The moral of the story is don't taunt bears and don't poke hornets' nests. It was totally within Staker's own power to avert the incident. If he hadn't been a bear taunting, hornets'-nest-poking cheat himself then he wouldn't have been clobbered. I have limited sympathy for someone who breaks the rules in a sustained way and then is the victim of the rules being broken against them in retaliation. Where my sympathy comes in is that overall it probably wasn't actually Staker's fault. He was no doubt following the instructions of his dickhead coach (who was a cheating thug as a player, who specialised in exactly these sorts of non-football actions) and was no doubt emboldened by the lamentable inaction of the officiators. He presumably had the (correct) impression that he had carte blanche from the authorities to do what he was doing. Staker was indeed a victim, but not solely of BBBBH.

BBBBH was colossal for us. As I said earlier, the idea he was just a "good average player" is beyond laughable. Look at his record. Watch his clutch kicks in the 2005PF and GF and ask yourself if that's a "good average player". Everything on the line. Seriously. He ended on a sad note, the problems at the end shouldn't overshadow what was an historic contribution to our club. It is fantastic to have him back.

To blame the umpires for Hall hitting Staker is a bit rich. We were only in the first quarter. We were winning 25-2 at the time. Barry Hall had already kicked a goal. If you look at the direct lead up to the king hit, Staker is doing nothing that any defender wouldn't do. Total brain snap from someone who was sadly not in the right headspace to be playing.

[Blood Fever]

Sorry but this comment is absolute crap and only perpetuates the (generally unfair) notion that Swans supporters don't know anything about football. The idea that Hall was no more than a good average footballer is so hilariously wrong that you devalue any other contributions you might make. Flawed maybe, but good average footballer? He was arguably the most influential player in the entire comp from 2002-2005. Your comment is absurd.

+1

[Nico]

Don't you start V&R!

I think binary and non-binary will be the most over used words in 2022. I noticed a sports person described themselves as non-binary. Does that mean I am binary?

- - - Updated - - -

You have twisted my quote. I didn’t infer that Hookes was involved in a pub fight. All I said on David Hookes was that the situation was tragic. I then moved onto Mathews and Hall and where their hits had been committed.

There are two options here:

1) Nico apologise

2) Mods, please wipe Nico’s post and my reply off as well.

Bulldust.

[Bangalore Swans]

I think binary and non-binary will be the most over used words in 2022. I noticed a sports person described themselves as non-binary. Does that mean I am binary?

- - - Updated - - -



Bulldust.

Still won’t apologise Nico. Very disappointed in you.

[Bloods05]

Still won’t apologise Nico. Very disappointed in you.

This is really very odd behaviour. You do realise that, don't you? You set up an endless stream of straw men and then spend 10 days of your life defending them.

[AB Swannie]

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that get binary and those that don’t.

[Velour&Ruffles]

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that get binary and those that don’t.

Actually, there are only two types of people in the world:
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

[dejavoodoo44]

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that get binary and those that don’t.

Years ago, I used to refer to alleged ruckman, Paul Chambers, as 'binary'; because his stat sheets were invariably a collection of 0s, interspersed with the occasional 1.

[goswannies]

Actually, there are only two types of people in the world:
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

- - - Updated - - -

Years ago, I used to refer to alleged ruckman, Paul Chambers, as 'binary'; because his stat sheets were invariably a collection of 0s, interspersed with the occasional 1.

Funnily enough, despite his maligning, he has fond memories of his time with us. He moved to the UK to teach for a few years & is now back with Geelong working in a community program with kids