BBBH

[stevoswan]

You have twisted my quote. I didn’t infer that Hookes was involved in a pub fight. All I said on David Hookes was that the situation was tragic. I then moved onto Mathews and Hall and where their hits had been committed.

There are two options here:

1) Nico apologise

2) Mods, please wipe Nico’s post and my reply off as well.

Now that's a funny post.

[dejavoodoo44]

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Funnily enough, despite his maligning, he has fond memories of his time with us. He moved to the UK to teach for a few years & is now back with Geelong working in a community program with kids

I'm sure he's a nice guy and that he learned some valuable lessons while at the Swans. Possibly the most valuable, was that he was nowhere near being an AFL level footballer.
Good luck to him, though.

[Bloods05]

Actually, there are only two types of people in the world:
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Three types actually: those who can count, and those who can't.

[stevoswan]

Chad contacts BBBBH

Longmire's Swans culture-building initiative and how Barry Hall was involved

That’s how a young player should do it. Barry would have loved talking to Chad. Notice how Chad was on fire early in 2021. Barry made every Swan walk taller. It’s clear that Barry also lifted Chad.

I like Chad more now.

All this proves is that BBBH can be a great bloke off the field......that has never been in question. Never. Great blokes can still be flawed on field and Barry had his flaws, that is without question. Just a reminder.....Chad rang Barry only after Horse asked him to. Dylan Stephens rang Gerard Healy after being asked to....and so on....so not sure what the actual point of your post is.

09183305 makes a good point about knowing what Barry and Chad actually talked about, so here's some 'speculation' for you.....something you're very familiar with. Barry may have said to Chad "......and don't let any negative off-field events influence your on-field actions like I did at times. Stay focussed on the task and never let your team mates down with selfish actions when things aren't going your way. The clubs culture is everything.....never betray it."

Sound ok? More likely than some of the drivel being put up on this thread in recent days.

One more thing. One person on this thread has denied BBBH was a champion player. I believe he is alone on this and as such it doesn't reflect that basically all of us here believe he was a champion. You just can't seem to accept that he had flaws which were contrary to the culture that had been built at the Swans and that his team mates, however young, had the right to point this out to him.....'because he was a champion that deserves respect'.

None of his negative on field actions respected the clubs culture or helped the team in any way and he deserved to be told.....and in any post 'negative event' analysis, that's all he deserved.....so it matters little who it came from, whether it be from Horse or a younger team mate.

Would it have been better if the YU said to Barry "It's ok mate, we all saw Staker niggling you all day long and the umpires do nothing to protect you. He got what he deserved. Well done mate, we've got your back. Here's some more cotton wool". Give me a break.

[stevoswan]

You are an odd bedfellow for me, BS, but I am with you on this one - at least to the key point of the respect we should give to BBBBH ... not so sure I mind about young upstarts giving feedback because I think about early Dan Hannebery and early Errol Gulden and I love the confidence that shows. But BBBBH has earned an exalted place in the Swans Pantheon.

There are a number of silly ideas on this thread, that seem to have become accepted wisdom. I'm not going to address specific posts, I will say this:

The idea that Barry had "numerous" issues as a Swans player is wrong. Sorry, but he just didn't. From 2002- PF 2005 he was a very solid citizen - that's how he was able to get a downgrade on his guilty finding for the stomach strike in the 2005 PF. He had at least three years where he was as upright as anyone else.

BBBBH was colossal for us. As I said earlier, the idea he was just a "good average player" is beyond laughable. Look at his record. Watch his clutch kicks in the 2005PF and GF and ask yourself if that's a "good average player". Everything on the line. Seriously. He ended on a sad note, the problems at the end shouldn't overshadow what was an historic contribution to our club. It is fantastic to have him back.

Thankfully you seem to agree with most of us on the fact that a YU has the right to pull 'a champion' into line....which is how this never ending debate started.

Sadly, you seem to have missed the point that it's only one poster that believes he was 'a good average player'.....and also that it was post 2005 when he was not such a 'solid citizen'. It's likely that this is the time period the YU rightly addressed this with him in said team meeting.

By your own admission, we don't win the 2005 GF without Barry....well lucky he had enough 'solid citizen' points in the bank to get off the Maguire charge then isn't it.....otherwise he may have been remembered as having lost us a flag. As I said in an earlier post, what a wonderful legacy that would have been.....and all from his 'solid citizen' period. Wow.

But yes, it is fantastic to have him back. No doubt all Swans fans love Barry, despite his flaws and indeed in spite of some on here glossing over some uncomfortable truths of the past.

[stevoswan]

Outstanding post.

My favourite ever commentator was a big Hall fan and that rubbed off on me.

Robert Wall’s loved Barry Hall. A tough, no nonsense commentator loved the tough, no nonsense player.

Wall’s could see Hall’s value to the Swans.

The sad thing for Barry was that the Swans effectively refused to let him play after the 2009 Adelaide game when he hit Ben Rutton.

Where was Barry’s farewell game when Barry, The Swans and Swans fans knew that he would be out at seasons end. The Swans were not making finals in 2009. Why not a farewell game.

K.Jack, and McVeigh got their glorious 2019 farewell game.

No farewell for Barry despite being more important to the Swans success than the above two players.

You still just don't get it. You're doubling down and clutching at speculative straws like a Murdoch journo....it's cringeworthy. Jack and McVeigh never king hit anybody, never even got reported (correct me if I'm wrong on this). They 100% respected the Swans culture 100% of the time and they weren't in self imposed purgatory like BBBH was. By this time, he had burnt his bridges well and truly.....no one felt good about the way his time at the Swans ended and anyone with any common sense would understand that a 'farewell' game would have been a pretty hollow experience for everyone involved.....even disingenuous.

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Years ago, I used to refer to alleged ruckman, Paul Chambers, as 'binary'; because his stat sheets were invariably a collection of 0s, interspersed with the occasional 1.

[Bangalore Swans]

All this proves is that BBBH can be a great bloke off the field......that has never been in question. Never. Great blokes can still be flawed on field and Barry had his flaws, that is without question. Just a reminder.....Chad rang Barry only after Horse asked him to. Dylan Stephens rang Gerard Healy after being asked to....and so on....so not sure what the actual point of your post is.

09183305 makes a good point about knowing what Barry and Chad actually talked about, so here's some 'speculation' for you.....something you're very familiar with. Barry may have said to Chad "......and don't let any negative off-field events influence your on-field actions like I did at times. Stay focussed on the task and never let your team mates down with selfish actions when things aren't going your way. The clubs culture is everything.....never betray it."

Sound ok? More likely than some of the drivel being put up on this thread in recent days.

One more thing. One person on this thread has denied BBBH was a champion player. I believe he is alone on this and as such it doesn't reflect that basically all of us here believe he was a champion. You just can't seem to accept that he had flaws which were contrary to the culture that had been built at the Swans and that his team mates, however young, had the right to point this out to him.....'because he was a champion that deserves respect'.

None of his negative on field actions respected the clubs culture or helped the team in any way and he deserved to be told.....and in any post 'negative event' analysis, that's all he deserved.....so it matters little who it came from, whether it be from Horse or a younger team mate.

Would it have been better if the YU said to Barry "It's ok mate, we all saw Staker niggling you all day long and the umpires do nothing to protect you. He got what he deserved. Well done mate, we've got your back. Here's some more cotton wool". Give me a break.

I think Barry would be most grateful that Chad rang him up to learn from him and to make Barry feel that he’s number 1 was special.

For Barry, Chad possibly started the healing process with the club. Barry can also see in Chad that some young players respect Champions and want to learn as opposed to giving him feedback.

Maybe the Leading Teams culture under Paul Roos is different now under Longmire. Learning from the older guys whom wore the number is a great initiative

I read Barry’s account about the days after the Ben Rutton hit. Really sad for Barry that Roos would’nt return his calls and then when Roos called a meeting with Barry to discuss his future he didn’t meet one on one and instead brought Longmire and Ireland to the meeting.

[Mr Magoo]

You are an odd bedfellow for me, BS, but I am with you on this one - at least to the key point of the respect we should give to BBBBH ... not so sure I mind about young upstarts giving feedback because I think about early Dan Hannebery and early Errol Gulden and I love the confidence that shows. But BBBBH has earned an exalted place in the Swans Pantheon.

There are a number of silly ideas on this thread, that seem to have become accepted wisdom. I'm not going to address specific posts, I will say this:

The idea that Barry had "numerous" issues as a Swans player is wrong. Sorry, but he just didn't. From 2002- PF 2005 he was a very solid citizen - that's how he was able to get a downgrade on his guilty finding for the stomach strike in the 2005 PF. He had at least three years where he was as upright as anyone else.

Less popularly (and I am sure I will be slammed for this, but I really don't care), go back and watch the game against the WCE where he ended up snotting Staker. I put the majority (yes, the majority) of the blame at the feet of the umpires. Staker was at him and at him and at him in constant breach of the rules for a full quarter but the umpires did nothing whatsoever. He was constantly being scragged and pinched and gut punched and blocked and nothing whatsoever was done. Nothing. That is not to excuse the reaction from Hall, which was clearly unacceptable, but it IS to say that if the umpires had done their job with even a remote hint of competency and enforced the actual rules of the competition a couple of times amongst the multiplicity of opportunities to do so, the situation would never have escalated to the boiling point that it did. Instead, it seemed they were being wilfully, obstinately blind. It was glaringly obvious what was going on - multiple umpires just “missing it” simply isn’t credible. Let's say the same enthusiasm for applying the rules had been as evident as it always was with Ablett, Judd and a few other leading players of the time ... it's X free kicks for Hall (and probably X goals, given his accuracy, which only deserted him after this point), not an 8 week suspension.

This is where comparisons with David Hookes and king hits in pubs breaks down. For that to be a valid comparison, you need the police to have been standing around in the pub implicitly endorsing Hookesy giving all sorts of @@@@@ to the bouncer - which is not how it was (and I've read the book). There's a big difference between a completely unexpected, unprovoked coward's punch and what Hall did. His reaction to sustained provocation was over the top and against the rules, but it's a bit like poking a hornets' nest or bear taunting - the reaction you get from the bear or the hornets may not be proportional to your actions, but they are nevertheless a reaction to your actions. The moral of the story is don't taunt bears and don't poke hornets' nests. It was totally within Staker's own power to avert the incident. If he hadn't been a bear taunting, hornets'-nest-poking cheat himself then he wouldn't have been clobbered. I have limited sympathy for someone who breaks the rules in a sustained way and then is the victim of the rules being broken against them in retaliation. Where my sympathy comes in is that overall it probably wasn't actually Staker's fault. He was no doubt following the instructions of his dickhead coach (who was a cheating thug as a player, who specialised in exactly these sorts of non-football actions) and was no doubt emboldened by the lamentable inaction of the officiators. He presumably had the (correct) impression that he had carte blanche from the authorities to do what he was doing. Staker was indeed a victim, but not solely of BBBBH.

BBBBH was colossal for us. As I said earlier, the idea he was just a "good average player" is beyond laughable. Look at his record. Watch his clutch kicks in the 2005PF and GF and ask yourself if that's a "good average player". Everything on the line. Seriously. He ended on a sad note, the problems at the end shouldn't overshadow what was an historic contribution to our club. It is fantastic to have him back.

I agree with most of this. Good post. Barry Hall was an amazing player for us in that 2002-2005 era - put simply , he doesnt play in 2005 and I dont believe we win that grand final.

He did seem to go off the rails a bit after the staker thing and clearly was fighting some mental demons so he was a problem but it also felt at the time to me like the swans hung him out to dry somewhat as a result. It sometimes looks to me that at many professional football clubs , when your in , your in but when your on the outer , your most definitely on the outer and this may be the case at the swans . The swans have a pretty reasonable approach to culture that yields results but I would be interested in how those not in the "favourite sons" category would view it. Sam Gray for example in an interview I read earlier this year was polite but not exactly complimentary of the way he was treated by the swans. I dont think we should imagine for a minute they have nailed it and in the case of Barry Hall, Im sure they didnt get it right.

On the view of "is he a champion" , Halls shot on staker wasnt pretty but it wasnt even close to some of the things Tony Lockett did in his playing days. If you got in Locketts way , look out . Are we all suggesting that Lockett should never be considered a champion. I doubt many would subscribe to that. While Im not trying to compare the two in overall footballing contribution , if you are going to dilute Halls status as a result of his indiscretions then same should be done to Lockett.

[goswannies]

I think Barry would be most grateful that Chad rang him up to learn from him and to make Barry feel that he’s number 1 was special.

The #1 is special.

Swans team of the century member Vic Belcher wore it. As did Charlie Ricketts. Roy Cazaly, whose legendary status in the AFL is immortalised in song donned it. So did Brownlow medallist and TotC player Herb Matthews. TotC CHF and one of the greatest ever Laurie Nash bore the #1, as did dual Swans leading goal kicker Gordon Lane. One of the early local product successes Greg Stafford wore #1. And, date I suggest the All Australian who brought the Swans their first flag in 72 years, Paul Roos.

Now I love that Barry got the call. Touching tribute. And many of the #1’s would need a ouija board to take the call, but Barry doesn’t own the #1. He’s not the best Swan to have worn it. It’s just a great tribute. As would it have been if Roosey took the call and he would have had pearls of wisdom to impart too

For Barry, Chad possibly started the healing process with the club. Barry can also see in Chad that some young players respect Champions and want to learn as opposed to giving him feedback.

Pure speculation. I would ask the jury to disregard that

Maybe the Leading Teams culture under Paul Roos is different now under Longmire. Learning from the older guys whom wore the number is a great initiative

Ummm, seriously? Roos was part of the initiative to re-instil the Bloods culture.

I read Barry’s account about the days after the Ben Rutton hit. Really sad for Barry that Roos would’nt return his calls and then when Roos called a meeting with Barry to discuss his future he didn’t meet one on one and instead brought Longmire and Ireland to the meeting.

I have read it. I have been moved by how it affected him. But remember, there are 2 sides to every story. And you remain blissfully ignorant of Roos’ recollection of events … if it even exists

[stevoswan]

I think Barry would be most grateful that Chad rang him up to learn from him and to make Barry feel that he’s number 1 was special.

For Barry, Chad possibly started the healing process with the club. Barry can also see in Chad that some young players respect Champions and want to learn as opposed to giving him feedback.

Maybe the Leading Teams culture under Paul Roos is different now under Longmire. Learning from the older guys whom wore the number is a great initiative

I read Barry’s account about the days after the Ben Rutton hit. Really sad for Barry that Roos would’nt return his calls and then when Roos called a meeting with Barry to discuss his future he didn’t meet one on one and instead brought Longmire and Ireland to the meeting.

May I remind you that Chad only rang BBBH because his coach asked him to....and yes, it is a great initiative. Thanks Horse.

On Roos, it is obvious that he was extremely disappointed with Barry's continuing bad on field behaviour, despite the obvious support he had given him along the way......and he has every right to be disappointed. Maybe you and Velour&Ruffles should change you're fawning attitude to 'No Roos, No Swans success at all....possibly ever." Barry was just along for the Roos ride....so BS, don't smear a champion coach and our clubs spiritual saviour.

[TheBloods]

I am bloody glad Chad doesn 't read this site , head wouldn't fit through the door and his form would go down the tubes .

[stevoswan]

I agree with most of this. Good post. Barry Hall was an amazing player for us in that 2002-2005 era - put simply , he doesnt play in 2005 and I dont believe we win that grand final.

He did seem to go off the rails a bit after the staker thing and clearly was fighting some mental demons so he was a problem but it also felt at the time to me like the swans hung him out to dry somewhat as a result. It sometimes looks to me that at many professional football clubs , when your in , your in but when your on the outer , your most definitely on the outer and this may be the case at the swans . The swans have a pretty reasonable approach to culture that yields results but I would be interested in how those not in the "favourite sons" category would view it. Sam Gray for example in an interview I read earlier this year was polite but not exactly complimentary of the way he was treated by the swans. I dont think we should imagine for a minute they have nailed it and in the case of Barry Hall, Im sure they didnt get it right.

On the view of "is he a champion" , Halls shot on staker wasnt pretty but it wasnt even close to some of the things Tony Lockett did in his playing days. If you got in Locketts way , look out . Are we all suggesting that Lockett should never be considered a champion. I doubt many would subscribe to that. While Im not trying to compare the two in overall footballing contribution , if you are going to dilute Halls status as a result of his indiscretions then same should be done to Lockett.

We are not talking about Lockett, we are talking about Barry Hall....and I'll say YET AGAIN that I believe most, if not all (except one), here on RWO agree that BBBH WAS A CHAMPION PLAYER. Stop presenting as if you and BS are the only one's who believe this.....it's just that most of us aren't ready to sweep his many indiscretions under the carpet as if they had no bearing on our club. Far from 'winning' us a flag, he was actually one negative tribunal decision away from costing us a flag. This is as good as a fact.

[Bangalore Swans]

May I remind you that Chad only rang BBBH because his coach asked him to....and yes, it is a great initiative. Thanks Horse.

On Roos, it is obvious that he was extremely disappointed with Barry's continuing bad on field behaviour, despite the obvious support he had given him along the way......and he has every right to be disappointed. Maybe you and Velour&Ruffles should change you're fawning attitude to 'No Roos, No Swans success at all....possibly ever." Barry was just along for the Roos ride....so BS, don't smear a champion coach and our clubs spiritual saviour.

OMG. I smeared Paul Roos because I spoke about a version of events that Barry Hall put into print? If Barry had said things that were smears, I think Roos would have sued Barry and the publication for defamation.

Paul Roos is not perfect and the interesting thing about his record is that’s it’s almost intentical to Mark Williams of Port in terms of number of flags and finals appearances. Why isn’t Williams exulted like Roos? It’s all in the marketing, pr and cultivation of media relationships that Roos excells at. Stevo, it looks like you’re suffering from “Roosmania”like I suffer from “Chadmania”.

Paul Roos was an outstanding coach who took the Swans forward after Rodney Eade had left him some outstanding players such as Hall, Goodes, Micky O, Leo Barry and many others.

He exelled at game day strategy, recruiting and getting the best out of players. Roo’s legacy seems to be all about culture, but I think he’s an outstanding football coach who did the above three things brilliantly. The whole cultural piece is overdone in my opinion and has led Roos’s to a more exulted place than what a normal football coach is.

Roos was not perfect and I think Barry’s ending could have been handled better.

[Bloods05]

OMG. I smeared Paul Roos because I spoke about a version of events that Barry Hall put into print? If Barry had said things that were smears, I think Roos would have sued Barry and the publication for defamation.

Paul Roos is not perfect and the interesting thing about his record is that’s it’s almost intentical to Mark Williams of Port in terms of number of flags and finals appearances. Why isn’t Williams exulted like Roos? It’s all in the marketing, pr and cultivation of media relationships that Roos excells at. Stevo, it looks like you’re suffering from “Roosmania”like I suffer from “Chadmania”.

Paul Roos was an outstanding coach who took the Swans forward after Rodney Eade had left him some outstanding players such as Hall, Goodes, Micky O, Leo Barry and many others.

He exelled at game day strategy, recruiting and getting the best out of players. Roo’s legacy seems to be all about culture, but I think he’s an outstanding football coach who did the above three things brilliantly. The whole cultural piece is overdone in my opinion and has led Roos’s to a more exulted place than what a normal football coach is.

Roos was not perfect and I think Barry’s ending could have been handled better.

I love word salad as much as the next guy, but it cries out for something more substantial to go with it.

[Velour&Ruffles]

May I remind you that Chad only rang BBBH because his coach asked him to....and yes, it is a great initiative. Thanks Horse.

On Roos, it is obvious that he was extremely disappointed with Barry's continuing bad on field behaviour, despite the obvious support he had given him along the way......and he has every right to be disappointed. Maybe you and Velour&Ruffles should change you're fawning attitude to 'No Roos, No Swans success at all....possibly ever." Barry was just along for the Roos ride....so BS, don't smear a champion coach and our clubs spiritual saviour.

I don't think I was fawning, just factual.
For what it's worth, I absolutely agree with you that Roos made it all possible, and has also created an enduring culture and legacy that lives on through Longmire and another generation of players. Truly a giant of the club. I'm not quite sure what I said to make you think I was diminishing Roos' contribution?
But I don't think it's right to say Barry was just "along for the ride" (any more than Goodesy, Micky O, Jude Bolton etc were). His on-field contribution was indispensable.