Sydney vs Collingwood Match Thread

[stevoswan]

But nothing. Irrespective of “Vic journo’s” it’s fairly pathetic from our offending supporter group. As a supporter group, our complaints against other Goodsey booing supporters will now inevitably be viewed as hypocritical.

And as for Pies fans and players having short memories, we would have better moral high ground if our fans didn’t commit a similar offences. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Our fans will never be as bad as the a-holes who incessantly booed Goodsey....and it is disingenuous to hint at that. A bit too much is being made of a few boos. Booing IS part of footy, we just don't want to see it aimed at one person week in, week out. Besides, in this case, "we boo him because he stages" would actually be true. That's the difference here. Goodsey never staged to the extent young Jack does despite the BS claims of some racist fans looking for an excuse to boo him, never shhhh'd the crowd, never smiled like a smartarse and never dyed his hair blond to 'stand out'. We all know what the motivation of the Goodes haters was. There's so many differences in these two cases. Our fans are allowed to boo just as much as any fan base.

However, if we continue to boo him next time we play Collingwood, then I would be concerned. This, hopefully and likely, was a one off.

[stevoswan]

Well, no. While it was probably unnecessary to boo Ginnivan after he was taken off, I have no sympathy for the booing that he cops, because he's entirely brought it on himself. Once he stops flagrantly staging for free kicks, he'll find that the booing will stop. And it's no use people claiming that he doesn't stage, because the AFL have actually given a directive to the umpires, to be less inclined to pay high contact frees, because it was obvious to pretty well everyone that he was relentlessly play acting. So, do you really think that fans won't give him the negative feedback that he so richly deserves? Are opposition supposed to happily accept charity goals given against their team?

And any comparison to the Goodes situation is very much false equivalence. Goodes did not have any sort of history of flagrantly staging for frees. Sometimes he put his hands in the air and appealed when being held without the ball, like about 90% of the players in the competition. The myth that Goodes staged, was largely put out there by racist trolls, to deflect from the fact that he was the victim of an ugly media campaign, by some high profile, far right commentators: Bolt, Jones, Devine, etc. Adam was attacked by those people, because he was a high profile indigenous athlete, who made some mild comments about indigenous disadvantage, which disagreed with their propaganda that there was no such thing.

+1000

[dejavoodoo44]

I think you may be doubling down here.

Paddy is what, 6’4”? and he tackled Ginnivan from behind. He is always at risk of tackling too high when lunging at a much shorter player with his own arms raised above his own shoulder height.

The photo shows Ginnivan is near upright at the point of contact, and they replayed the free kick on slow motion and there did not appear to be lowering before contact.

Not sure about doubling down, but I'm probably spending too much time on the issue. Especially as I was quite impressed by seeing acclaimed author, Johann Hari, on breakfast TV this morning, giving an impassioned plea about how we shouldn't be so distracted by our phones.

Anyway, having seen that photo, I went back to have a look at the footage. That still shot appears to quite late in the piece. When contact is first made, Paddy is at about a 45° angle to the ground, due to him lunging over another Collingwood player, while Ginnivan is about 60°. The initial contact appears to be forearm, for the hand that later rises up to his neck. Ginnivan then rapidly heads both towards the ground and towards Paddy. And one wonders what causes him to fall in that direction, as any contact should have seen him bounce in the other direction. He also raises his arm, which when combined with the lowering of his body, causes Paddy's arm to rise to where it was captured in that photo. So, I'm not entirely pleased by the choice of photo on the AFL site, as I suspect they could have just as easily chosen a shot, where Paddy was making contact with the forearm, or one that captured Ginnivan raising his arm. But that possibly doesn't fit in with general narrative of the article?

[stevoswan]

You can hear some boos for him in the first quarter, well before the free kick. But obviously the free kick exacerbated it. Unfortunately the broadcast decision and media focus has turned something silly but minor into a much bigger deal. People don’t like being told they’re wrong and I suspect the booing will continue. Hope I’m wrong.

A good point.....just as it is for racists who hated being called racists.....and so for Goodsey, the booing got worse.....and as Deja pointed out, right wing journo's enabled them by excusing them. This will never happen to young Jack so I don't think he's got too much to worry about.....unless he continues to stage for frees. In fact, there is now a 'poor Jack' narrative going in the media. If he doesn't want to be booed, that is up to him to change.

[Mr Magoo]

You’re correct. The underlying reasons for the booing are vastly different. But i don’t think that is the comparison being made here.

It’s more a generic observation on singling out players as villains & the potential for psychological impact.

I don’t like it & won’t do it - regardless of the reason.

I hate booing for any reason. Whether its a sports star or a prime minister coming onto the screens at a game, I just think it lacks respect and dignity.

Im not worried about the psychological impact , Ginnavan knows full well why the booing is going on, it certainly hasnt affected his shooting for goal after each free. There is a common belief across the AFL audience that he's a stager so I dont think hes going to be too fussed by it, internally they would just be saying keep doing what your doing. You could say that he is being singled out cause hes a white haired lair and in some peoples eyes "he needs to be bought back down to earth". Ive heard a similar argument used to me before about Goodes.

Selwood has been doing same for years and hes a hero to the AFL and while he is renowned for it , Ive not noticed him being booed by the wider AFL audience as he doesn't otherwise stand out as a lair .

[stevoswan]

There may have been a perception, but there was little or no reality behind that perception. It was more a, "I'm not racist, but" excuse, to pretend that race and politics weren't behind it. I actually remember at the time, wondering why people were going on about Goodesy staging, as I was unaware of any staging that he was doing. So I did YouTube and Google searches, to see if I could find any evidence. Of course, they drew a blank. And in the course of the extended and interminable online debates at the time, when the staging was mentioned by people attempting to justify their campaign, I often asked them to provide evidence or point to any specific incident. Unsurprisingly, they were never able to do that.
So, yes, there was a perception, but that perception appeared to be almost entirely the result of widespread weasel words.

Spot on! My take is it all started when he pointed out the racist Collingwood girl and the right wing media went into bat for the 'poor little white girl'. It got worse when he became "Australian of the Year" and Shane Warne tweeted something along the lines of "Adam Goodes 'Australian of the Year' Who picks this?" followed by the right wing media misrepresenting Adam's acceptance speech as a slant on Australia and it's white people. A lot of fans decided 'if you hate us, we hate you' and the staging BS was coined to deflect from their real intent.....and right wing media continue to this day to enable this putrid behaviour. It's just a reflection of our fractured society today.....and it's really sad and dangerous.

While I'll never condone the attacking of one person with incessant booing because of what happened to Adam, the truth is Jack's a little white boy....he'll be fine. Sorry if this brutal assessment offends some people but it's true. I also acknowledge that not all white people are effing bigoted idiots......but those that treat the Murdoch medias rantings as gospel certainly are!

[dejavoodoo44]

I hate booing for any reason. Whether its a sports star or a prime minister coming onto the screens at a game, I just think it lacks respect and dignity.

Im not worried about the psychological impact , Ginnavan knows full well why the booing is going on, it certainly hasnt affected his shooting for goal after each free. There is a common belief across the AFL audience that he's a stager so I dont think hes going to be too fussed by it, internally they would just be saying keep doing what your doing. You could say that he is being singled out cause hes a white haired lair and in some peoples eyes "he needs to be bought back down to earth". Ive heard a similar argument used to me before about Goodes.

Selwood has been doing same for years and hes a hero to the AFL and while he is renowned for it , Ive not noticed him being booed by the wider AFL audience as he doesn't otherwise stand out as a lair .

Pretty sure that Selwood does get booed by opposition fans, to varying degrees, every time that he gets a high contact free.
And as I've said a number of times, Collingwood could stop the controversy in its tracks, by telling him not to stage for frees. But it appears that they quite like the charity shots for goal, at the expense of any damage that it may be doing to their young player.
And I suspect hair style doesn't have much to do with things, as most players with an individualistic style are soon labelled cult figures.

- - - Updated - - -

Spot on! My take is it all started when he pointed out the racist Collingwood girl and the right wing media went into bat for the 'poor little white girl'. It got worse when he became "Australian of the Year" and Shane Warne tweeted something along the lines of "Adam Goodes 'Australian of the Year' Who picks this?" followed by the right wing media misrepresenting Adam's acceptance speech as a slant on Australia and it's white people. A lot of fans decided 'if you hate us, we hate you' and the staging BS was coined to deflect from their real intent.....and right wing media continue to this day to enable this putrid behaviour. It's just a reflection of our fractured society today.....and it's really sad and dangerous.

While I'll never condone the attacking of one person with incessant booing because of what happened to Adam, the truth is Jack's a little white boy....he'll be fine. Sorry if this brutal assessment offends some people but it's true. I also acknowledge that not all white people are effing bigoted idiots......but those that treat the Murdoch medias rantings as gospel certainly are!

Yes, while it's only my opinion, I can't help thinking that if he stopped staging, then the controversy would rapidly fade in the rear view mirror.

[Maltopia]

Not sure about doubling down, but I'm probably spending too much time on the issue. Especially as I was quite impressed by seeing acclaimed author, Johann Hari, on breakfast TV this morning, giving an impassioned plea about how we shouldn't be so distracted by our phones.

Anyway, having seen that photo, I went back to have a look at the footage. That still shot appears to quite late in the piece. When contact is first made, Paddy is at about a 45° angle to the ground, due to him lunging over another Collingwood player, while Ginnivan is about 60°. The initial contact appears to be forearm, for the hand that later rises up to his neck. Ginnivan then rapidly heads both towards the ground and towards Paddy. And one wonders what causes him to fall in that direction, as any contact should have seen him bounce in the other direction. He also raises his arm, which when combined with the lowering of his body, causes Paddy's arm to rise to where it was captured in that photo. So, I'm not entirely pleased by the choice of photo on the AFL site, as I suspect they could have just as easily chosen a shot, where Paddy was making contact with the forearm, or one that captured Ginnivan raising his arm. But that possibly doesn't fit in with general narrative of the article?

Let’s just agree to disagree and move on

[KSAS]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but there was a spectacular sunset shot by Ch 7 during the 3rd quarter (i think?). It was a wide view camera shot, taken from ground level behind the goals with a glowing sunset illuminating from behind the old SCG grandstands. It was the best the sunset shot at any sporting arena i can recall. Stunning. Wonder if anyone present at the game had this vantage spot to witness it?

[liz]

I sit in the O'Reilly Stand, so directly opposite the Members and Ladies stands. It was pretty spectacular on Sunday, but we regularly get a treat on clear twilight games (including early season night games).

[111431]

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/cc/12/FB68D1B8-0488-4108-A1F4-B0C3B441BC9A/IMG_5744.jpeg

[Faunac8]

I thought i knew everything until i had grandkids . Now im learning half the words in the Merriam Webster were invented after they were born ! What hope do we have !

Welcome back TB you have been missed

[Matty10]

This was a clear free kick.

This sentiment has been said numerous times by prominent football commentators since the free kick occurred, but I don’t believe this is accurate. It also makes me wonder if it is being accepted as fact by members of the media as it helps with the narrative that Ginnivan is being unfairly targeted.

What is interesting to me is that if you slow the vision down (and zoom in), it is absolutely clear (I would argue that it is incontrovertible) that the high contact is caused by Ginnivan raising his arm.

Anyone with a Kayo account and an iPhone (using screen recorder) can do this and replay it frame by frame to see the same. So why haven’t the media (with all their video technology) have done the same when using the incident as a prime time discussion point? It seems bizarre to me.

In real time this can be hard to see, which is why I don’t blame the umpires, but I can understand why fans would be aggrieved if given access to the replay (or had a better angle than the umpires or TV cameras).

[SwanSand]

It was on Craig McRae and Pendlebury and Sidebottom to prevent what is happening to Ginnivan now. They knew what he was doing long ago and knowing how the media highlights players who milk the rules and the eventual crowd backlash they should have stopped it long time ago. But they chose to applaud him and reward him.
He seems like a good player except for this issue which he and the club should stamp out of him. And if someone tells me that he is not doing it, are fooling themselves. He knows what he does and he is not the only one. And I think he has mended his way over last few weeks but hopefully he shows his skills which I think he has plenty of to save himself.

[dejavoodoo44]

This sentiment has been said numerous times by prominent football commentators since the free kick occurred, but I don’t believe this is accurate. It also makes me wonder if it is being accepted as fact by members of the media as it helps with the narrative that Ginnivan is being unfairly targeted.

What is interesting to me is that if you slow the vision down (and zoom in), it is absolutely clear (I would argue that it is incontrovertible) that the high contact is caused by Ginnivan raising his arm.

Anyone with a Kayo account and an iPhone (using screen recorder) can do this and replay it frame by frame to see the same. So why haven’t the media (with all their video technology) have done the same when using the incident as a prime time discussion point? It seems bizarre to me.

In real time this can be hard to see, which is why I don’t blame the umpires, but I can understand why fans would be aggrieved if given access to the replay (or had a better angle than the umpires or TV cameras).

Yes, I am starting to wonder, if much of the coverage is reflecting a parochial Victorian angle, or demonstrating the commercial imperative, of tailoring their coverage towards the games largest supporter base: which I think is still Collingwood.