2023 List Management

[Auntie.Gerald]

Swans 2024 - hopefully I have correct as per below.

46 players on our list as at the end of 2023
10 players no longer with us from season 2023
4 have joined via trades and or free agency

Heeney, Amartey, Hayward
Paps, McDonald, Wicks?

Adams
Parker
Rowbottom
Campbell
Gulden
Grundy

Lloyd, Blakey, McInerney
Rampe, McCartin, Cunningham

ChadWarner
Mills
Florent
McLean
Jordon

24.Sheldrick
25.Konstanty
26.Francis
27.Melican
28.Fox
29.Roberts
30.Buller
31.Hamling
32.Warner Jnr
33.Arnold
34.Ladhams
35.Edwards
36.Vickery
37.Magor
38.McAndrew
39.Mitchell
40.Reid?

From below we can only have 4 players join unless we de list from the above ie max 44 in the 2024 squad

Draft
1.Pick 12
2.Pick 45
3.Pick 55?

Picks 45 and 55 = pick 39 in points value

Category A/B available
Category A/B available
Category A/B available?

[lwjoyner]

rather have mcclean and mcdonald than ugle

[Auntie.Gerald]

Probably the 3 players that intrigue me in our squad right now because I just struggle to get a sense of their potential trajectory of improvement:

Mitchell - future wing role?
Vickery - future Lloyd role at HBF?
Edwards - a possible lock down KPD in 2025 onwards?

[waswan]

rather have mcclean and mcdonald than ugle

Rather throw a longterm offer at Logan as opposed to be in the hunt with all the Vic clubs for a ridiculous long term offer at JUH

Happy to chase him after Logan but id say its one or the other and we need to focus on Logan or risk ending up with neither.

[Ludwig]

I'm surprised we made such a bold play for Naughton, unless we planned to play him as a defender, where I think he would be at the level of a Darcy Moore or Stephan May.

I don't think it's a good idea to have 2 elite key forwards. Hawthorn did it with Franklin and Roughead, but they played different and complimentary games. Then again, Franklin did leave. It usually ends up where they become targets for other clubs. Curnow and McKay could be an elite pair, but they haven't played well together for any great length of time. Both have had injuries and McKay has had his form slumps.

A combination like Kennedy and Darling worked well, with Darling playing a strong complimentary role rather than a competing role with Kennedy.

For the Swans, it's still a work in progress. It's trending toward McDonald being the main target, with some combination of McLean, Amartey and Buller playing supporting roles. I think that works best and also has the best chance of lasting without being poached by clubs.

I think JUH would be more a competitor for McDonald than a compliment. It will be interesting to see how things pan out with the Bulldogs. Now that Naughton is in for the long haul, and if he remains at forward, I wonder how well it will work out with JUH. My feeling is that they will cut into each other's natural game and we will see fluctuating form for one or both over the years, without either reaching the heights they might have if playing the dominant role at another club.

I think Brisbane have a good mix of forward line players. They all play their respective roles well without getting in the way of each other. I would like to see the Swans develop along these lines. And I think the Swans are heading in that direction, but need improvement from individual players and are still looking for the best combination. 2024 should go a long way to sorting out the issues. Finding a right mix early on would go a long way toward the making of a successful season.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Didn’t hawthorn play 3 elite talls with very different roles in their dominant era?

Bud
Roughie
Gunston

That made them so challenging to negate in scoreboard pressure

- - - Updated - - -

I can’t see Naughton joining the Swans as a back on $1mill per season…….but anything is possible at some clubs

[Ludwig]

Didn’t hawthorn play 3 elite talls with very different roles in their dominant era?

Bud
Roughie
Gunston

That made them so challenging to negate in scoreboard pressure

- - - Updated - - -

I can’t see Naughton joining the Swans as a back on $1mill per season…….but anything is possible at some clubs

Gunston doesn't really play like a key forward, but more of a half forward. The trio played together for 2 seasons. And the 3 played complimentary roles, which is why the Hawks were so good. Gunston is a great shot for goal from distance and doesn't need to get involved tin too many marking contests with bigger bodies. That sort of combination of tall forwards is very rare. It may be a long time before we see that kind of combination again. And with Rioli and Breust as small fofwards, it's a wonder how they ever lost a game. That was some incredible team they had in 2013.

As for Naughton, I was surprised by our move on him because I didn't see the need for another top line forward given what we already have on board. But we do need a top shelf key defender and Naughton was a defender when he was drafted. I'm not sure what we were thinking about his possible position on the Swans. If he joined the Swans' forward line, how would that affect McLean and Amartey, both of whom we made commitments to for the medium term. So there would be some shakeup in the forward line if Naughton would have come to the Swans. Perhaps we did have a move to the backline for for one of the other forwards. That question is unlikely to ever be answered.

[Bloods05]

That was some incredible team they had in 2013.

Those players were all there in 2012 as well. And our incredible team beat them.

[Blood Fever]

We played out of our skins that day. Incredible performance by us. The Hawks had a super list. And we kicked straight!

[liz]

Hawkins and Cameron works fine when both are fit.

[Auntie.Gerald]

If as KB said an “A grade player comes along, we will ask and ask significantly put out case forward over 10yrs ”

I mean let’s get real. That is a real deal.

I’ll take bets.

If Amartey scores more goals n his career than Jamarra Ugle-Hagan………I don’t think that is possible. Low odds.

When Naughton and or JUH come along you have a go otherwise you run the risk of missing a seriously improving talent that is a decade player.

Anyone want to state their bet on Amarteys career goals?

[Auntie.Gerald]

Gunston doesn't really play like a key forward, but more of a half forward. The trio played together for 2 seasons. And the 3 played complimentary roles, which is why the Hawks were so good. Gunston is a great shot for goal from distance and doesn't need to get involved tin too many marking contests with bigger bodies. That sort of combination of tall forwards is very rare. It may be a long time before we see that kind of combination again. And with Rioli and Breust as small fofwards, it's a wonder how they ever lost a game. That was some incredible team they had in 2013.

As for Naughton, I was surprised by our move on him because I didn't see the need for another top line forward given what we already have on board. But we do need a top shelf key defender and Naughton was a defender when he was drafted. I'm not sure what we were thinking about his possible position on the Swans. If he joined the Swans' forward line, how would that affect McLean and Amartey, both of whom we made commitments to for the medium term. So there would be some shakeup in the forward line if Naughton would have come to the Swans. Perhaps we did have a move to the backline for for one of the other forwards. That question is unlikely to ever be answered.

Luddy that is not what Buddy said

He said “at the Hawks they played a square set up and that meant Buddy, Roughie, Gunston, Rioli, Breust just by himself 530 goals rotating point to point of the forward square set up”

That was a rotating presenting force that couldn’t be contained due to their unique skills and accuracy. Scoreboard pressure to the max.

That is good vs bronze and we are so far short of that era.

We have so much to improve and bolster.

[i'm-uninformed2]

My understanding is the Swans did offer 10 years to Naughton, but did not offer him the million dollars a year floated in the media - more the $750-800k kind flagged for McKay - and yes, key defence was the go.

Now, re JUH, he’s gonna be a total star. So is Logan. They’ll be duelling for the Coleman at some point. We haven’t had an elite KPF forward drafted into our squad for well, forever, so we’re probably a bit unaccustomed to their trajectory. Of course Logan has a bit to do, but he’s so on track it’s not funny. And I’d love to have them both, but don’t see it happening.

What I do see is the club having another lash at someone of real value next. The CBA went up more than anticipated, we’d cleared cap space anyway, and none of the incoming are taking up substantial money. Remember, we made the plays for McKay, Naughton, etc this year knowing we still had to cover Errol, Chad and Logan in particular in the next few years. We’re on the hunt, peeps.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

As for Naughton, I was surprised by our move on him because I didn't see the need for another top line forward given what we already have on board. But we do need a top shelf key defender and Naughton was a defender when he was drafted. I'm not sure what we were thinking about his possible position on the Swans. If he joined the Swans' forward line, how would that affect McLean and Amartey, both of whom we made commitments to for the medium term. So there would be some shakeup in the forward line if Naughton would have come to the Swans. Perhaps we did have a move to the backline for for one of the other forwards. That question is unlikely to ever be answered.

Maybe the too many many key forwards issue would have been resolved with a move by someone down back. Although probably not Naughton - even if he began his career as a defender.
It might still need to be. Without Naughton we do still seem to have a surfeit of potential key forwards. Not just McLean, Amarty and LoganMc - but Jack Buller too, although didn't he play down back as a colt?
And Peter Ladhams
With Grundy arriving, is he to be a 2's permanent fixture (with occasional 1st's games if Grundy is injured/suspended/needs a rest)?
Or do we play . . . . . . . . . 2 ruckmen?
I suspect we certainly will be playing 2 ruckmen, in the 2's at least (Mensa & McAndrew). But in the firsts?
If we do play Ladhams as a forward/ruck - if so I can't see him, McLean, Amarty and Logan in the same forward line - that's more tall timber than the Daintree.
Are you still thinking McLean might make a backman?

[Thunder Shaker]

Draft
1.Pick 12
2.Pick 45
3.Pick 55?

Picks 45 and 55 = pick 39 in points value

This is incorrect for three reasons.

1. Pick 45=347 points, pick 55=207 points (554 points), equivalent to pick 34 (542 points).
2. Players drafted from Academies get a 20% points discount. This pushes the pick values up to pick 27.
3. So many picks will be used up in Academy matching in the first round that our picks 45 and 55 will be the equivalent of a late first round pick. I covered this in detail in post 3054.