2023 List Management

[lwjoyner]

hopefully the new commisioner (BL & SS experience) will tell the erst of the commisioners the real facts

[wolftone57]

So the Hun has gone into full overdrive this morning in declaring war on the Academies. Apparently a batch of the club's were preparing not to bid on any of the GC's academy players as a form of protest. Self-sabotaging idiocy and I wish it had happened, but Norf's determination to bid on Walter quashed it. It's largely the big Melbourne clubs, but even West Coast has joined the whingeing after losing access to Collard from the (haha) NGA. Some seem to want all academy (and I assume father-son) discounts scrapped; some want the threshold for accessing their NGA talent taken back to include the second round.

They ignore the fact this is cyclical. As, for example, Gold Coast rises on the back of hot academy players, it's access to the next round is more limited. They won't be splitting pick 4 in future. Eventually, they'll be trying to rustle up points by using pick 18 and 36 - and guess what, good kids from their Academy will become available to other clubs.

We know how this will end however with the AFL caving, as they always do - when the answer should be go do rude things to yourself; or, here's a deal: we'll tweak those discounts if we scrap Melbourne teams automatically getting to play the grand final on their home ground.

Gerard Whately has had a rant disguised as a travesty of the first round ballooning out to 29. He avers the first round should be 18 and 18 only. who gives a flying fart how many the first round is. The only thing we care about id how the new talent performs at club level. But Whatley is inferring that the Northern clubs are getting too much but saying it in a very clouded manner so as not to make it seem he is against the Academies. But in reality, he is suggesting the bidding system be scrapped. Whately said some time ago everyone should have free pick of Academy kids. He said this on SEN. He said that maybe the Northern clubs could be compensated with later draft picks. when push comes to shove even he, who is normally quite equitable, is a Victorian who follows a Victorian footy team

[Auntie.Gerald]

Gerard can feel the Cats slipping a little be the moves that have been made this trade period

They made some super smart trades etc last few years but in one season you can make a serious adjustment like we did.

We are right back in it.
Pies he knows are in it.
Brisbane also.
Melbourne, Port and Carlton are equally on the hunt.
Geelong maybe slipping?

Gerard can feel it and he is deflecting his anger of the Cats back in the pack to all the states outside of Victoria

A typical knee jerk reaction by a Geelong one eyed supporter. But sad really. Finally Good Coast get a leg up from so much hard work and maybe a chance to hassle the top8.

Sad ????

Gerard is not really helping the weaker clubs lift is he ?

[Maltopia]

The first round should end at pick 18.

Otherwise how can you make sensible trade comparisons, as a first round pick can be up to 29 in some years, and only up to 18 in most others.

If North gets pick 3 for McKay, just make pick 19 (Collingwood) the first pick in round 2 instead of still calling it a first round pick. Pick 36 becomes 37, and is now the first pick of round 3 instead of the last in round 2 and so forth.

Same with North end of round 1 bonus picks. They are nominally picks 19 and 20 (or 20 and 21 after insertion of pick 3). They become the 2nd and 3rd picks or the second round (after Collingwood’s pick 18 slides to 19).

Just keep the round markers fixed. Pick 25 is still pick 25, it is just a nonsense to call them a first round pick when almost every other year pick 25 is second rounder.

There would be a bit less outcry as GC’s last pick would be a second rounder every other year previously, and then it wouldn’t be “OMG they got FOUR first round picks for junk picks!”

[i'm-uninformed2]

I like most of Whateley's contributions and observations, but he has a blind spot on the academies (as opposed to Sydney) - and whilst I don't think Geelong have done a bad job starting to restock their list over the past two-three years; yes, they are a bit off it for now. But christ almighty, their 2007-11 dynasty was built off the back of cheap as chips father-sons, before they cracked down on it. And that's before all the father-son rorting.

Or the salary cap rorting. A mate of mine who lives down there and is a Cats fans gives me all the gossip. He laughs at what they get away with. The new one he told me a little while back is apparently six different wives of players just happen to be paid to be ambassadors for Cotton On, one of the club's bigger sponsors. All on between $10-20K.

[giant]

Stewy Maxfield also had a footy playing son who was on the radar several years back (probably at least five years ago, maybe longer).

They all used to play down at Trumper Park (including the Roos' boys) so the junior games were always a bit of a Swans who's who session! Always thought it must have been a tad confronting being the coach!

[KSAS]

Link to SEN Sportsday podcasts page & recommend listening to the interview with Tony Cochrane this evening (15 mins).

Tony puts Kane Cornes in his place over the northern academies.

Interesting at start of this clip, Healy mentioning the Swans have just lost a 17 year old top product from their Academy - Mitchell Wood, to a lucrative NRL contract (Canterbury Bulldogs).

Page also contains yesterday's interview with Will Green.

Sportsday

[dejavoodoo44]

The first round should end at pick 18.

Otherwise how can you make sensible trade comparisons, as a first round pick can be up to 29 in some years, and only up to 18 in most others.

If North gets pick 3 for McKay, just make pick 19 (Collingwood) the first pick in round 2 instead of still calling it a first round pick. Pick 36 becomes 37, and is now the first pick of round 3 instead of the last in round 2 and so forth.

Same with North end of round 1 bonus picks. They are nominally picks 19 and 20 (or 20 and 21 after insertion of pick 3). They become the 2nd and 3rd picks or the second round (after Collingwood’s pick 18 slides to 19).

Just keep the round markers fixed. Pick 25 is still pick 25, it is just a nonsense to call them a first round pick when almost every other year pick 25 is second rounder.

There would be a bit less outcry as GC’s last pick would be a second rounder every other year previously, and then it wouldn’t be “OMG they got FOUR first round picks for junk picks!”

Yes, I don't think a pick 19 or 22 has any less chance of success, if it's labelled a second round pick instead of a first rounder.

[Auntie.Gerald]

what about if it was @@@@@ no20 and it was the 2009 Draft and Nat Fyfe's name got announced

Man the VIC media love to stir up a circus of VFL entitlement............can i say that? or is that crossing the line

[dejavoodoo44]

what about if it was @@@@@ no20 and it was the 2009 Draft and Nat Fyfe's name got announced

Man the VIC media love to stir up a circus of VFL entitlement............can i say that? or is that crossing the line

Hmm, I think the correct term is, "the @@@@ing VFL boys club".

[Thunder Shaker]

It's rather telling how there's a lot of petulant bleating about the northern Academies and the mechanisms of bid matching, yet there's nothing but chirping crickets with father-son and free agency.

Father-son has the same bid matching as the northern Academies, yet because a select group of Victorian clubs benefit most, this isn't given the same scrutiny. If they're seriously proposing doing away with Acedemy bid matching, the same must apply to father-son as well.

Free agency is the biggest recruiting rort there is. The destination club pays nothing in picks at all, effectively getting a player for 100% discount while the AFL magically creates "compensation" picks out of nothing. This places the 16 uninvolved clubs at a disadvantage. West Coast's first pick in the second round of the draft was pushed down 3 places from 27 to 30 just by free agency compensation.

Furthermore, free agency creates a huge incentive to pillage non-Victorian clubs, destroying list retention, especially for the Giants and Suns. Clubs which gain players by free agency should be coughing up draft picks instead of the AFL creating them.

Connected to all of this is the whining about how the first round of the draft had 29 picks this year. 11 extra picks were:
* Gold Coast 4 Academy players
* Sydney 1 Academy player
* Western Bulldogs: 1 father-son
* Hawthorn: 1 father-son
* 3 free agency compensation picks (North Melbourne, Adelaide, St Kilda) - clubs receiving these players: Essendon 2, Brisbane 1.
* 1 AFL assistance pick (North Melbourne, traded to Carlton).

Gold Coast got four Academy players, but paid a large number of picks for them. They required one vacant list spot for every pick they took to the draft. Gold Coast had three points-bearing picks wiped out by this rule. This is a salient point overlooked by the anti-Academy whiners.

By contrast, Essendon got two players by free agency whom the AFL deemed worthy of first-round picks in exchange. Essendon contributed not a single point of draft capital for these players.

So the complaints about the northern Academies are groundless, considering father-son uses the same mechanisms, and free agency is a blatant rort.

[barry]

The draft worked perfectly (except for all the handouts norf got).
Leave it as it is

[lwjoyner]

other than kirk this yeasr and blakey and tom mitchell who else has been picked up by swans as father/son ?

[liz]

Blakey wasn’t father-son (to us). And technically neither was Kirk since, as a father-son recruit, he wouldn’t have been eligible for the Cat B rookie list.

The actual father-son recruits we have taken since I've been following the club are Mitchell who you mention, Heath James and Stephen Doyle, both of whom were very promising but whose careers were ruined by injury, and Sean Dempster, who played in the 2005 and 2006 grand final teams but, for some reason, wasn't rated by Roos and was given away for nothing to St Kilda when we traded Adam Schneider to them. He went on to have a fine career with the Saints, including an All-Australian selection and another grand final campaign in 2010.

[dejavoodoo44]

other than kirk this yeasr and blakey and tom mitchell who else has been picked up by swans as father/son ?

Gareth John in 1988, Heath James 1998, Stephen Doyle 1999 and Sean Dempster 2002. Slim pickings compared to some, like Collingwood, Western Bulldogs and Geelong.