Swans v Suns Match Thread 12 Aug23 SCG

[liz]

I did the same thing! I kept rewinding assuming I'd missed something!

I read Kafka's post while I had just started to listen to the episode. That saved me sitting through the remaining fifteen minutes.

Thanks KG!

[KSAS]

Re value of Leigh Matthews’ comments: he added fuel to the ridiculous beat-up about Swans salary cap (aka attack on COLA) when Tippett came to us.

(An attack which reached a furious crescendo the following year when we recruited Buddy.)

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/af...907ad8c4fc0779

Don't recall Leigh and his sheep following Vic media, making the same attack when Richmond recruited Tom Lynch after winning the 2017 premiership.

[neilfws]

Just wasted my morning tea break watching Access All Areas on the AFL app. Did the AFL know it scheduled a game in Sydney on the weekend? Certainly none of the “sages” on the panel seemed to be aware of that.

Second week in a row that the Swans game failed to merit a Nine-Fax media report too, aside from a brief paragraph in the "weekly round-up" section.

Good that we don't crave attention I guess but still, "national competition" and all that.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I've always been more concern with umpiring vic-centricity/bias, than commentator or media pundit vic-centricity.bias.
But maybe the one feeds off the other?

Or both are symptoms of the same mind-set/condition.

[Blood Fever]

His thesis was so idiotic: the idea the premiership team was supposed to shed stars.

Look at our 2012 team. Who were the superstars? Goodes, yes. Hanners, yes. McVeigh and Jack were brilliant, but not superstars. Nor was ROK. Even JPK was only coming into that elite range by then. The rest: terrific individually or as role players, but not superstars.

Half our backline had been rookies, or were young like AJ. You had the role players like Bird. I don’t think Mike Pyke or LRT were commanding a big salary, god love them. Hell, Mitch Morton would have been paid a bag of chips and some tomato sauce.

The thing to understand - and most give me the @@@@s - about a lot of footy commentary by ex players (as opposed to smart journalists like a Whateley) is they are speaking off the top of their head, based on gut or instinct. It’s just stream of conscious crap. Yet it gets taken as gospel, because it’s “Leigh” (substitute whatever other name you want).

And that’s without getting to the true morons like a Darcy or Montagna.

It’s often summed up by Brereton. When he’s giving in game analysis of forward craft, it’s awesome. Best in class. When he’s asked to give spur of the moment opinion on stuff beyond that, it’s just juvenile or prattle or vindictive based on who’s a ‘ripping bloke’ and who’s not.

Because Brereton has had a string of Swans games recently, I have warmed to him a bit more. He has a pretty strong connection to both McLean and Florent and he did play a year with us albeit a long time ago. Getting better as he gets older. Not the worst.

[giant]

Because Brereton has had a string of Swans games recently, I have warmed to him a bit more. He has a pretty strong connection to both McLean and Florent and he did play a year with us albeit a long time ago. Getting better as he gets older. Not the worst.

That's coz he coached the first and the second is mates with his son - unless they have directly come into his circle of influence he doesn't have much interest in the Swans. GWS on the other hand...

[Kafka's Ghost]

I read Kafka's post while I had just started to listen to the episode. That saved me sitting through the remaining fifteen minutes.

Thanks KG!

You may rest assured Liz, that you missed absolutely nothing. Unless you want to spend the time listening to how great Carlton/Collingwood/Hawthorn are.


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[neilfws]

I agree.....and one umpire did a better job than four.

Well, we can debate what's meant by "better" but a very interesting thing happened with the introduction of two umpires.

Here's a chart of "standard deviation of free kick differential" from 1965 onwards (the first year with recorded free kick data). So this tells us how much variation there is, on average, in the free kick count difference between teams. The dashed lines show when a second, third and fourth umpire was introduced.

Prior to the introduction of a second umpire, there was a lot of variation. In fact it peaked in 1977, the year after two umpires were first used - perhaps because they were getting used to the new system. But since then there has been a steady downward decline which levelled off some time around 2005.

In other words, games nowadays are far less likely to have massive differences in the free kick count - the difference is rarely higher than 20 and usually nothing like as high as that. As to why this is - I don't have a good explanation. But it's interesting.

[dejavoodoo44]

Well, we can debate what's meant by "better" but a very interesting thing happened with the introduction of two umpires.

Here's a chart of "standard deviation of free kick differential" from 1965 onwards (the first year with recorded free kick data). So this tells us how much variation there is, on average, in the free kick count difference between teams. The dashed lines show when a second, third and fourth umpire was introduced.

Prior to the introduction of a second umpire, there was a lot of variation. In fact it peaked in 1977, the year after two umpires were first used - perhaps because they were getting used to the new system. But since then there has been a steady downward decline which levelled off some time around 2005.

In other words, games nowadays are far less likely to have massive differences in the free kick count - the difference is rarely higher than 20 and usually nothing like as high as that. As to why this is - I don't have a good explanation. But it's interesting.

I do appreciate your stats. Off the top of my head, perhaps one explanation, is that two or three umpires, are less likely to be intimidated by a hostile home crowd than a lonely, solitary umpire? Perhaps another one is that if one umpire has a conscious or unconscious bias, then that could be balanced by another umpire, who's free from bias or is biased the other way?

[Nico]

When we played Collingwood and Carlton at their home grounds my memory is we got a flogging by the umpires. There is no doubt there was a fair degree of crowd intimidation. I remember beating Collingwood at Victoria Park in the latter part of the 70's and we were pelted with cans as we walked down the race. Fortunately the race was wired enclosed, and they were full cans. Those were the days when you could go in the rooms after the games.

Carlton was very bad in that they goaded opposition supporters, and what has been forgotten is someone was king hit in front of the Carlton members stand and died.
Lets not forget the feral Essendon supporters at Windy Hill. You dared not go in the dunnies after a game wearing red and white.

The umpire intimidation at Windy Hill was chronic.

[Blood Fever]

Windy Hill supporters turned on everyone, including their own team if they were going bad.

[KSAS]

When we played Collingwood and Carlton at their home grounds my memory is we got a flogging by the umpires. There is no doubt there was a fair degree of crowd intimidation. I remember beating Collingwood at Victoria Park in the latter part of the 70's and we were pelted with cans as we walked down the race. Fortunately the race was wired enclosed, and they were full cans. Those were the days when you could go in the rooms after the games.

Carlton was very bad in that they goaded opposition supporters, and what has been forgotten is someone was king hit in front of the Carlton members stand and died.
Lets not forget the feral Essendon supporters at Windy Hill. You dared not go in the dunnies after a game wearing red and white.

The umpire intimidation at Windy Hill was chronic.

Agree with all that. My scariest moment was at Vic Park in 1986, when we came from 5 goals down early in the last to win the game after Barry Mitchell received a balant push in the back fee against Shane Kerrison (Pies crowd screamed ball!!!).

Crowd were very hostile post match. Umpires & players had to be escorted off the ground by horse mounted police. Cans were thrown at them & first time i recall TV footage being used by police to lay charges.

I had to hide my Swans scarf & beanie to make safe exist.

I never go to venture out to Windy Hill, as it seemed even more intemintary than Vic Park. .

[Nico]

Agree with all that. My scariest moment was at Vic Park in 1986, when we came from 5 goals down early in the last to win the game after Barry Mitchell received a balant push in the back fee against Shane Kerrison (Pies crowd screamed ball!!!).

Crowd were very hostile post match. Umpires & players had to be escorted off the ground by horse mounted police. Cans were thrown at them & first time i recall TV footage being used by police to lay charges.

I had to hide my Swans scarf & beanie to make safe exist.

I never go to venture out to Windy Hill, as it seemed even more intemintary than Vic Park. .

I remember that one too. I reckon the one I mentioned was 1977 when Teasdale took Len Thompson to the cleaners with some astronomical number of marks. I am sure Barry Round played that day.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

That was the very day I became a Swans supporter - while sitting in the members stand at Vic Park.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Not that long ago, 2011 from memory, I joined my sister and niece at the game against Essendon at Marvel (whatever it was then). Goodesy had a shot for goal after the siren to win the game, and despite the disappointment of him missing there was also an element of relief that it meant we were able to get out of the ground without trouble. As visitors from interstate our seats were in the midst of Bombers fans; those people were feral.


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