Swans v Suns Match Thread 12 Aug23 SCG

[Kafka's Ghost]

Just wasted my morning tea break watching Access All Areas on the AFL app. Did the AFL know it scheduled a game in Sydney on the weekend? Certainly none of the “sages” on the panel seemed to be aware of that.


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[Blood Fever]

Business as usual in the centre of the universe

[Ludwig]

Oh please, not this anti-ruckman guff again!
C'mon, Ludwig, cards on the table, did some tall person call you an ooompah loompah at school? Did they use the top of your head to rest their beers on? Did they refuse to help you reach the jar of pickels on the the top shelf at Woolies? Did some giant disaparage your rendition of the Hiho song at Karaoke?
Seriously, what did we do?

Ludwig and Ruckmen = TheBloods and Rowbottom

I'm not really against ruckmen, just ineffective ruckmen. If you've got a Max Gawn, you have a big advantage. If you don't, then try a different strategy.

I'm far from alone in this opinion. Whatever you think of them, Leigh Mathews, Jason Dunstall and Nathan Buckley are in the same camp.

If a team is losing the ruck contest and clearances playing a ruckman, then perhaps it would help to drop the ruckman and play another midfielder instead. It seems logical to give it a try instead of continuing o lose the ruck contests doing the same old thing.

[caj23]

Hickey had to play, he’s not back to his best, and may not get there, but he’s our best option by a mile.

As much as McClean has improved in the ruck, he’s still pretty ordinary there and plays his best footy up forward. I’d hate to see him play a full game there

[KTigers]

Just wasted my morning tea break watching Access All Areas on the AFL app. Did the AFL know it scheduled a game in Sydney on the weekend? Certainly none of the “sages” on the panel seemed to be aware of that.


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If an AFL game between two non Vic teams was played in Sydney and no Melbourne footy "journo" noticed, did it really happen at all?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I'm not really against ruckmen, just ineffective ruckmen. If you've got a Max Gawn, you have a big advantage. If you don't, then try a different strategy.
I'm far from alone in this opinion. Whatever you think of them, Leigh Mathews, Jason Dunstall and Nathan Buckley are in the same camp.
If a team is losing the ruck contest and clearances playing a ruckman, then perhaps it would help to drop the ruckman and play another midfielder instead. It seems logical to give it a try instead of continuing o lose the ruck contests doing the same old thing.

Thanks Ludwig for his response. I agree on ineffective ruckmen, but our definitions of effective/ineffective are somewhat different.
I understand you aren't alone in your opinion, "the-day-of-the-ruckman-has-gone" chorus have been singing the same song intermittantly for decades - and IMO they're always wrong.

While I wouldn't cite Buckly as an authority on anything (other than his own reflection). Leigh is a different kettle of fish. Such an opinion seems at the selection policies he employed during his coaching years. Maybe he thinks things have changed - do you have a url?

[Ludwig]

Leigh is a different kettle of fish. Such an opinion seems at the selection policies he employed during his coaching years. Maybe he thinks things have changed - do you have a url?

Leigh's media presence has dropped off of late and I haven't heard much from him recently. A few years ago he was quite outspoken about his position on ruckmen. I don't have any links, but I believe his position is well known.

[liz]

Matthews was a great player and a very successful coach. I'm not sure his post-retirement comments on the game are any more insightful or coherent than the rest of the pack who masquerade as "football commentators".

I've never quite forgiven Matthews for declaring that Goodes was a "protected species" after he beat a charge at the tribunal. I think it was probably true that Goodes escaped one or two charges that other players might have been suspended for, but it wasn't a Goodes-specific escape clause. The top rated players have consistently received greater leniency and/or benefit of the doubt at the tribunal than mere "ordinary players" for as long as I have been following the game. Matthews made it seem like it was just Goodes, and the manner of his comment came across as somewhat spiteful.

[liz]

Coaches' votes, R22: Zak Butters closes on Nick Daicos, two perfect 10s

Coaches votes for our game. The two coaches agreed on the best five players but in different orders. I had Blakey as my clear BOG but hard to argue with the five players recognised.

Sydney v Gold Coast
7 Will Hayward (SYD)
7 Matt Rowell (GCFC)
7 Chad Warner (SYD)
5 Nick Blakey (SYD)
4 Tom Papley (SYD)

I do recall the commentators during last week's Giants game crapping on about how Hayward had never been deemed best on ground in any of his 130+ games. I think they were using Brownlow votes as their measuring stick. He may not get the three votes from the umpires for his game but at least he has the two coaches in combination (and one individually) determining he was (equal) best on ground the very next week.

[BRS328]

He probably did, but in fairness to Melican he had just returned from injury

[Nico]

Matthews was a great player and a very successful coach. I'm not sure his post-retirement comments on the game are any more insightful or coherent than the rest of the pack who masquerade as "football commentators".

I've never quite forgiven Matthews for declaring that Goodes was a "protected species" after he beat a charge at the tribunal. I think it was probably true that Goodes escaped one or two charges that other players might have been suspended for, but it wasn't a Goodes-specific escape clause. The top rated players have consistently received greater leniency and/or benefit of the doubt at the tribunal than mere "ordinary players" for as long as I have been following the game. Matthews made it seem like it was just Goodes, and the manner of his comment came across as somewhat spiteful.

Of all people to make this comment. I watched 80's videos on YT last week and this confirms to me that Matthews was the biggest thug of the modern era. A friend told me recently that knew a goal umpire back in the 80's and asked him why he didn't report Matthews one game. Reply; "oh no, that's Leigh Matthews". Umpires were too scared to report him. I wonder how many players who were concussed by him are travelling today.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I do recall the commentators during last week's Giants game crapping on about how Hayward had never been deemed best on ground in any of his 130+ games. I think they were using Brownlow votes as their measuring stick. He may not get the three votes from the umpires for his game but at least he has the two coaches in combination (and one individually) determining he was (equal) best on ground the very next week.

I also recall that comment, I wonder whether it may have something to do with Will's performance? Perhaps he needs to be stired up a bit every now and then?

Of all people to make this comment. I watched 80's videos on YT last week and this confirms to me that Matthews was the biggest thug of the modern era. A friend told me recently that knew a goal umpire back in the 80's and asked him why he didn't report Matthews one game. Reply; "oh no, that's Leigh Matthews". Umpires were too scared to report him. I wonder how many players who were concussed by him are travelling today.

Leigh remains the only VFL/AFL player to be be charged for assault on a football field - the conviction was overturned.

In his coaching days he almost never played without a pair of rucks, and the were always of what I would describe as the "combative" sort. I do recall him saying something about tapouts being a overrated stat, and I'd agree, but not about ruckman as a species being overrated, dinosaurs, etc. etc.
I found this when looking though Leigh Matthews highlights an “underrated” position in football

[Meg]

Re value of Leigh Matthews’ comments: he added fuel to the ridiculous beat-up about Swans salary cap (aka attack on COLA) when Tippett came to us.

(An attack which reached a furious crescendo the following year when we recruited Buddy.)

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-legend-leigh-matthews-stunned-sydney-swans-can-chase-kurt-tippett/news-story/ad68bc77926536d3e8907ad8c4fc0779

[i'm-uninformed2]

Re value of Leigh Matthews’ comments: he added fuel to the ridiculous beat-up about Swans salary cap (aka attack on COLA) when Tippett came to us.

(An attack which reached a furious crescendo the following year when we recruited Buddy.)

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/af...907ad8c4fc0779

His thesis was so idiotic: the idea the premiership team was supposed to shed stars.

Look at our 2012 team. Who were the superstars? Goodes, yes. Hanners, yes. McVeigh and Jack were brilliant, but not superstars. Nor was ROK. Even JPK was only coming into that elite range by then. The rest: terrific individually or as role players, but not superstars.

Half our backline had been rookies, or were young like AJ. You had the role players like Bird. I don’t think Mike Pyke or LRT were commanding a big salary, god love them. Hell, Mitch Morton would have been paid a bag of chips and some tomato sauce.

The thing to understand - and most give me the @@@@s - about a lot of footy commentary by ex players (as opposed to smart journalists like a Whateley) is they are speaking off the top of their head, based on gut or instinct. It’s just stream of conscious crap. Yet it gets taken as gospel, because it’s “Leigh” (substitute whatever other name you want).

And that’s without getting to the true morons like a Darcy or Montagna.

It’s often summed up by Brereton. When he’s giving in game analysis of forward craft, it’s awesome. Best in class. When he’s asked to give spur of the moment opinion on stuff beyond that, it’s just juvenile or prattle or vindictive based on who’s a ‘ripping bloke’ and who’s not.

[giant]

Just wasted my morning tea break watching Access All Areas on the AFL app. Did the AFL know it scheduled a game in Sydney on the weekend?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I did the same thing! I kept rewinding assuming I'd missed something!