B1 worth ~$300K pa??

[Charlie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Well he'd better bloody improve then as he's nowhere near a $300K player at the moment!

BTW - punting on futures is a very risky proposition so I can see why most AFL clubs are always skirting bankruptcy!!

Of course.

I'm not necessarily defending $300k for Jude. I'm just identifying the reasons for it.

[bricon]

The average pay for an AFL player is now $160,000 p/a. A number of players at every club would be on the minimum rate of about $50,000 + match payments (if they play senior matches); therefore it would be fair to assume that the average pay for players (not counting young draftees) would be close to $200,000 p/a.

So is Jude Bolton a better than an average senior player for the Swans? If the answer is yes, then $300K seems about right.

Here's a quote from
this recent newspaper article showing the $160K average figure.

In the sporting world, AFL footballers are considered well paid for their efforts. Players' association chief executive Rob Kerr said the average annual income was $160,000. Senior players receive a minimum of $50,000 a year plus $2150 a match but the average career lasts only five years.

[NMWBloods]

Isn't the salary cap $4.9m for 38 players and 6 rookies?

That makes the average pay for each senior player $120K or thereabouts. I can see that adjusting out certain junior players the average may come back to $160K for senior players.

However, that would mean above average players should get $200-250K at the most.

If J Bolton is getting $300K, then who else should get at least that much?

Hall
O'Loughlin
Goodes
Ball
Schauble
Kirk
Barry
Williams

And Mathews, Davis, and Crouch up towards that.

On this basis, I work out the top 18 should get about $5.5m. Sounds like an awful lot!!

[Charlie]

I think it's more like $6m - somewhere around there. Add the other $900,000 we get, and it gets close to seven million.

The general rule of thumb is that the top ten earners get about half of the cap. As such, if he's getting about $300,000, then Jude would be around the 8-10 mark - which is about where you've got him.

Would be surprised if Ball was getting $300k, however Saddo would be. Investment, NMW. Saddo has/had (depending on your opinion) the ability to be a leading player into the future. Ball doesn't.

You mustn't asume that merit, performance or importance determine the salary pecking order. They generally don't; or at least not on their own. It's all about potential, willingness to leave, ability, injuries, marketability, timing of contracts... for instance, when Kirk signed his current contract, he'd had one season as a critical player. That would prejudice against him. The fact that that one season had just past would, on the other hand, be favourable for him.

[chammond]

There are a couple of other factors, too -

. if it's in the newspaper, it's probably bull**** anyway;

. whatever the correct figure is, it will contain some element of performance pay. It could well be that Bolton could earn $300k in a season, but only if his performance warrants it.

[footyhead]

Whatever the case I think it sounds as if Jude may well be being over paid. If that is the situation it may well go along way to explaining our performances. Where's the incentive for Jude to become a truely great player (other than personal satisfaction and drive) if he can get $250 000 + by being a good second string midfeilder with the Swans ??

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Charlie
I think it's more like $6m - somewhere around there. Add the other $900,000 we get, and it gets close to seven million.

Yes - sorry that was a mistake - should be $5.9m plus our 15%, so $6.8m.

The general rule of thumb is that the top ten earners get about half of the cap. As such, if he's getting about $300,000, then Jude would be around the 8-10 mark - which is about where you've got him.

However in a team that is much more even, I expect it to be spread out more. I expect our top 10 get about 55% of the cap, however that still leaves a lot of players who are as important as some in the top 10.

Would be surprised if Ball was getting $300k, however Saddo would be. Investment, NMW. Saddo has/had (depending on your opinion) the ability to be a leading player into the future. Ball doesn't.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ball was getting $300K or more. It's not just about the future, but what they currently deliver, and Ball is one of our most important players.

You mustn't asume that merit, performance or importance determine the salary pecking order. They generally don't; or at least not on their own. It's all about potential, willingness to leave, ability, injuries, marketability, timing of contracts... for instance, when Kirk signed his current contract, he'd had one season as a critical player. That would prejudice against him. The fact that that one season had just past would, on the other hand, be favourable for him.

I don't care what factors are involved - all I care about is what they are worth.

[Charlie]

Agree that we have players outside the top ten that are quite important. However, a player like Davis - who clearly is only interested in living in Sydney - does not have a high market value because the risk of losing him is low. He would not be getting much more than about $220,000, I wouldn't think.

Yes, what they can do now is important, but with a player like Ball, it's not going to be worth $300,000. He's important, but he doesn't have a high market value, and he doesn't have the history of excellence of a Schwass or Williams that allows/ed such players to demand such figures.

Simply, market value and real value are two completely different things.

[barry]

He's worth it. In the open market his value may only be $250,000, but add the 15% retention we need to keep him in Sydney and theres your $300K (or thereabouts).

[Damien]

Isn't our retention allowance halved from this or next year?

Something like 7% I think it works out to from next year. (happy to be corrected, going on memory totally here, but I know there is certain changes confirmed)

[barry]

Yeah, its something like 7% retention allowance, provided we have x number of out-of-state players,
and 7% Cost-of-living allowance which only we get.

So basically its unchanged from previous years.

[dendol]

I think Kirky earned his 400K tonight. Or at least should get a pay rise if Jude is on 300K!

[footyhead]

But this is rediculous, it throws everything out of wack from a psycho;ogical point of veiw. What must a player like like kirk feel if he knows that somone who he constatntly out performes is making as much or more thatn him -
What must some of the hungrey young boys from sydney who are playing their guts out and playing well think when they see some one who is not playing any better than them (and maybe playing worse) when they realise that he is making substantially more then them and probabley more than they will ever make, just becuase there is more of a "go home" tendancey with a guy like Jude who is from Victoria.
Effectivley this policey would reward the victorians and punish the NSW players- which would seem the opposite to what is desirable on both the sence of unity within the club and also the selfesteem of NSW players.
This situation may well go a long way to explaining the "complex " that the Swans seem to carry with them (good but maybe not quite good enough ?!?) , a lot of victorian players playing for melbourne clubs would feel somwhat justified in feeling supperior to a player of equall monitary acheivment who is on the Swans list. Certainly it would describe some of the snide attitude towards the swans and their players from certain other parts of the football community.
This kind of situation could well tend to develope a collective chip on a football clubs shoulders, and I have long felt that the Swans have one. (not as big a one as port adelaide though )
I think this is quite serious, It goes a long way to explaining certain attitudes I have witnessed within the Swans playing groups over the years , and also certain attitudes that exsist toward the swans by any number of victorian footballers and ex-footballers and fans.
Wow- I think I might be beginning to form the oppinion that the extended salary cap and living allowance might be somthing that is potentially standing in our way to victory !

[footyhead]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: B1 worth ~$300K pa??

Originally posted by footyhead
A tagger ??

Woops, sorry Captain you are much much more than that.

[timthefish]

Originally posted by footyhead
I think I might be beginning to form the oppinion that the extended salary cap and living allowance might be somthing that is potentially standing in our way to victory !

I think you're onto something here footyhead, whether it is a problem with many players or not is a bit of an issue.

I've been thinking for a while that the salary cap adjustments could be done better. My suggestions are:

1. No clubs have adjustments to their salary caps to compensate for the "go home" issue.

2. Players negotiate with clubs on the basis of an open market value basis.

3. All players, regardless of experience or salary get a package to cover a certain amount of travel for themselves and their family. This is calculated for each individual but is independent of their salary. People playing in their home city get squat. Players coming from a regional area get a bit. Interstaters get more. Irishmen get heaps.

4. Each player away from home gets a % boost to their salary based on distance of relocation (for the sake of argument, 2.5% for regional, 5% close interstate, 10% distant interstate (say WA to brisbane or anyone from Darwin) and 20% international). Other factors may be used for adjustments.

5. ALL these extra expenses are paid by the AFL. Clubs only have to worry about the base salary, have to only find the money for what they think the player is "worth".

6. Eddie shuts the @@@@ up