B1 worth ~$300K pa??

[bricon]

To put some perspective into Bolton?s new contract figure; the absolute minimum that the club can pay anyone who plays 22 games in a season from 2005 is $104,300 ($51,500 base, plus $2,200 per senior game); the amount is fractionally less this year. So any kid who cracks it for every senior game in a season (just like Adam Schneider last year) will make over $100K.

A player who?s played 100 games is surely worth a multiple of that minimum figure and deserves the security that is afforded by a contract.

[NMWBloods]

Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

Hall		600
Goodes		500
O'Loughlin	500
Williams	400
Maxfield	400
Ball		300
Barry		300
Schauble	300
J Bolton	300
Kirk		250
Mathews		250
Davis		250
Fosdike		200
Crouch		200
Nicks		200
Saddington	200
C Bolton	150
Kennelly	150

That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Charlie
Would be surprised if Ball was getting $300k, however Saddo would be. Investment, NMW. Saddo has/had (depending on your opinion) the ability to be a leading player into the future. Ball doesn't.

Just one comment on this; I'd be surprised if Ball wasn't getting somewhere near $300K. Assuming he signed a contract a couple of years ago, he was essential to the performance of the team, as we have seen. Someone that important is still going to get paid well, no matter what his longevity. Obviously if he is out of contract shortly and decides to continue, he will not get as much nor the term in his next contract.

[DST]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

Hall		600
Goodes		500
O'Loughlin	500
Williams	400
Maxfield	400
Ball		300
Barry		300
Schauble	300
J Bolton	300
Kirk		250
Mathews		250
Davis		250
Fosdike		200
Crouch		200
Nicks		200
Saddington	200
C Bolton	150
Kennelly	150

That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.

I don't know if Hall is actually on that amount at present. He is still on his original contract when he came to the Swans and at that stage was very much a punt to see if he could turn himself into the footballer we thought he could be.

Would not surprise me that he is still on the $350,000 + some incentives this year with his next contract to take him into the $500,000 + level afterwards.

DST

[penga]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Assuming he signed a contract a couple of years ago, he was essential to the performance of the team, as we have seen.

he has signed a one year contract for the last two years

[Bart]

Warfey is also likley to be in that group. In the last year of a 4 year deal.

Others that are up for big increases at next contract (if they aren't in that 18 already) would be O'Keefe & Bevan.

Craig Bolton would also be saying "please sir can I have more"

[sharp9]

Originally posted by Bart


Craig Bolton would also be saying "please sir can I have more"

And the answer would be, "No."

He has been just average all year. His disposal is worse than last year, for a start. He's not getting the possessions he was, he is not shutting down his man as effectively, either, I believe.

So incremental contract improvement only.

[TheHood]

Originally posted by sharp9
And the answer would be, "No."

He has been just average all year. His disposal is worse than last year, for a start. He's not getting the possessions he was, he is not shutting down his man as effectively, either, I believe.

So incremental contract improvement only.

Did some good things on Saturday night. I personally haven't noticed him get hammered by any opponent this year except Richo who quite frankly, was unstoppable at that time. In fact, even as Richmond have stalled, he has kept going.

[bricon]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

Hall		600
Goodes		500
O'Loughlin	500
Williams	400
Maxfield	400
Ball		300
Barry		300
Schauble	300
J Bolton	300
Kirk		250
Mathews		250
Davis		250
Fosdike		200
Crouch		200
Nicks		200
Saddington	200
C Bolton	150
Kennelly	150

That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.

I?ve no doubt our top 18 pay list would look something like that if all contracts were re-negotiated today, however in reality the list would be vastly different. Most contracts are negotiated for periods of between 2 to 4 years (thankfully the Swans rarely enter into longer deals) and the pay scale is usually based on the worth of the player at the time the deal was signed. Eg (hypothetically) if Brett Kirk were re-signing today, I have no doubt that he would be able to ask for (and get) a $900,000 three year deal (incidentally, that?s not necessarily $300,000 p/a); if his current contract was negotiated at the end of 2002, he would probably now be in the middle of a $500,000 three year deal. Barry Hall?s current worth is undoubtedly around $2,000,000 over three years, but as he is still playing under his original contract with us, his current deal would be about half that.

Players who are in B1?s position right now (experience/contract timing/form/perceived value to other clubs) are the ones who get paid close to what they are actually worth (or a little more); players who are playing on their first (post-draft) contract, who are rapidly improving, are usually underpaid. Players on their second-last contracts are usually over-paid and are often offered reduced contracts to finish off their careers. Eg If Maxfield?s contract expired at the end of this season (and assume that he was earning $400,000 in the last year of that deal) he may only be offered a $200,000 one-year deal to finish off his career.

[SwallowdaFonz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bricon
Barry Hall?s current worth is undoubtedly around $2,000,000 over three years, but as he is still playing under his original contract with us, his current deal would be about half that.

And there is the answer to those who reckon paying too much leaves a player no motivation to perform. Underpay them and you might get great performance - as long as you can keep them.

[Nico]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: B1 worth ~$300K pa??

Originally posted by footyhead
A tagger ??

Crap.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

Hall		600
Goodes		500
O'Loughlin	500
Williams 400
Maxfield 400
Ball		300
Barry		300
Schauble	                300
J Bolton	                300
Kirk		250
Mathews		250
Davis		250
Fosdike		200
Crouch		200
Nicks		200
Saddington	200
C Bolton 150
Kennelly 150

That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.

Just some adjustments to this from what I remember hearing over the past couple of years.

You've got Hall at about $100k above what he is reportedly getting. Goodes between $50-100k over. O'Loughlin is getting $1.4million over 4 years or something similar... it's front loaded slightly so we could estimate $400k. Williams is probably about right; maybe only slightly over. Haven't heard, but I can't see Maxi on $400k - he signed a contract in 2002 I thought, when he was under an injury cloud (albeit also when he was favourite for the captaincy).

Ball we've discussed - the fact that he is on one-year deals suggests that his age and injury potential are taken into account; I'm thinking there's a lot of performance-based incentives. Most of the rest look about right, except Saddo who is, I believe, on considerably more and Craig Bolton who's on a base contract of no more than $90,000. Does that include match payments? Because it must be remembered that these are a fixed percentage of the cap regardless of who receives them.

I suspect you've overestimated, in total, by a few hundred thousand. And considering what I posted about the younger guys, it sounds like our balance is pretty good.

[chammond]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
But Kirk also does great defensive work, and Williams has been far more effective over a number of years. Bolton hasn't risen to these heights yet, and who is to say he will.

These would be the polls and best player listings that are often mainly based on stats.

Not saying he is not useful, but he is nowhere near most of those players just named, and I think $300K is a little steep.

Yeah, but apart from my own B&F prediction, the ratings are from independent sources . . . . i.e. not from Swans' fans. The point being that the AFL world at large rates Bolton very highly . . . certainly well within the $300k bracket.

Either way you are looking at the Bolton boy wonder with rose colourd glasses me thinks , and so is anyone who has jude in our top 4 : Barry Hall, Brett Kirk, Leo Barry , Jason Ball, Jarred crouch, Paul Beven, even Goodes in his hooror post brownlow seasone are all above Jude now. And possibly so are a few others ...

Aah, F-head, you're always good for a laugh . . . it's just a pity that I miss most of your humour because your posts are almost impossible to read.

Anyhow, of the players you refer to, only Hall, Kirk, Mathews and Williams are performing at the level of Bolton J this season . . . not my assessment, but the ratings of independent experts.

If you believe that the player of the year rankings are somehow misleading, then I refer you instead to the "Champion Data Rankings" that appear in the Murdoch rags, which also confirms that Bolton is in the top echelon of players.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by chammond
Yeah, but apart from my own B&F prediction, the ratings are from independent sources . . . . i.e. not from Swans' fans. The point being that the AFL world at large rates Bolton very highly . . .

Yes, but as I say, it is mainly based on stats, not an actual assessment of effectiveness or contribution.

[chammond]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Yes, but as I say, it is mainly based on stats, not an actual assessment of effectiveness or contribution.

No, I don't think that's correct. These ratings are a mix of stats and 'expert' assessments . . . . opinions mostly that are no more or less valid than your or my opinion.

None of this changes the point . . . it is these 'expert' ratings of Bolton's worth that mould public opinion and influence contract negotiations, and if Joseph's reputation is anything to go by, he would make every possible use he could out of them.