B1 worth ~$300K pa??

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  • bricon
    On the Rookie List
    • Jan 2003
    • 277

    #61
    To put some perspective into Bolton?s new contract figure; the absolute minimum that the club can pay anyone who plays 22 games in a season from 2005 is $104,300 ($51,500 base, plus $2,200 per senior game); the amount is fractionally less this year. So any kid who cracks it for every senior game in a season (just like Adam Schneider last year) will make over $100K.

    A player who?s played 100 games is surely worth a multiple of that minimum figure and deserves the security that is afforded by a contract.

    Comment

    • NMWBloods
      Taking Refuge!!
      • Jan 2003
      • 15819

      #62
      Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

      Code:
      Hall		600
      Goodes		500
      O'Loughlin	500
      Williams	400
      Maxfield	400
      Ball		300
      Barry		300
      Schauble	300
      J Bolton	300
      Kirk		250
      Mathews		250
      Davis		250
      Fosdike		200
      Crouch		200
      Nicks		200
      Saddington	200
      C Bolton	150
      Kennelly	150
      That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

      And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.
      Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

      "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

      Comment

      • NMWBloods
        Taking Refuge!!
        • Jan 2003
        • 15819

        #63
        Originally posted by Charlie
        Would be surprised if Ball was getting $300k, however Saddo would be. Investment, NMW. Saddo has/had (depending on your opinion) the ability to be a leading player into the future. Ball doesn't.
        Just one comment on this; I'd be surprised if Ball wasn't getting somewhere near $300K. Assuming he signed a contract a couple of years ago, he was essential to the performance of the team, as we have seen. Someone that important is still going to get paid well, no matter what his longevity. Obviously if he is out of contract shortly and decides to continue, he will not get as much nor the term in his next contract.
        Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

        "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

        Comment

        • DST
          The voice of reason!
          • Jan 2003
          • 2705

          #64
          Originally posted by NMWBloods
          Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

          Code:
          Hall		600
          Goodes		500
          O'Loughlin	500
          Williams	400
          Maxfield	400
          Ball		300
          Barry		300
          Schauble	300
          J Bolton	300
          Kirk		250
          Mathews		250
          Davis		250
          Fosdike		200
          Crouch		200
          Nicks		200
          Saddington	200
          C Bolton	150
          Kennelly	150
          That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

          And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.
          I don't know if Hall is actually on that amount at present. He is still on his original contract when he came to the Swans and at that stage was very much a punt to see if he could turn himself into the footballer we thought he could be.

          Would not surprise me that he is still on the $350,000 + some incentives this year with his next contract to take him into the $500,000 + level afterwards.

          DST
          "Looking forward to a rebuilt, new, fast and exciting Swans model in 2010"

          Comment

          • penga
            Senior Player
            • Jan 2003
            • 2601

            #65
            Originally posted by NMWBloods
            Assuming he signed a contract a couple of years ago, he was essential to the performance of the team, as we have seen.
            he has signed a one year contract for the last two years
            C'mon Chels!

            Comment

            • Bart
              CHHHOMMMMMPPP!!!!
              • Feb 2003
              • 1360

              #66
              Warfey is also likley to be in that group. In the last year of a 4 year deal.

              Others that are up for big increases at next contract (if they aren't in that 18 already) would be O'Keefe & Bevan.

              Craig Bolton would also be saying "please sir can I have more"

              Comment

              • sharp9
                Senior Player
                • Jan 2003
                • 2508

                #67
                Originally posted by Bart


                Craig Bolton would also be saying "please sir can I have more"
                And the answer would be, "No."

                He has been just average all year. His disposal is worse than last year, for a start. He's not getting the possessions he was, he is not shutting down his man as effectively, either, I believe.

                So incremental contract improvement only.
                "I'll acknowledge there are more talented teams in the competition but I won't acknowledge that there is a better team in the competition" Paul Roos March 2005

                Comment

                • TheHood
                  On the Rookie List
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 1938

                  #68
                  Originally posted by sharp9
                  And the answer would be, "No."

                  He has been just average all year. His disposal is worse than last year, for a start. He's not getting the possessions he was, he is not shutting down his man as effectively, either, I believe.

                  So incremental contract improvement only.
                  Did some good things on Saturday night. I personally haven't noticed him get hammered by any opponent this year except Richo who quite frankly, was unstoppable at that time. In fact, even as Richmond have stalled, he has kept going.
                  The Pain of Discipline is Nothing Like The Pain of Disappointment

                  Comment

                  • bricon
                    On the Rookie List
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 277

                    #69
                    Originally posted by NMWBloods
                    Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

                    Code:
                    Hall		600
                    Goodes		500
                    O'Loughlin	500
                    Williams	400
                    Maxfield	400
                    Ball		300
                    Barry		300
                    Schauble	300
                    J Bolton	300
                    Kirk		250
                    Mathews		250
                    Davis		250
                    Fosdike		200
                    Crouch		200
                    Nicks		200
                    Saddington	200
                    C Bolton	150
                    Kennelly	150
                    That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

                    And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.

                    I?ve no doubt our top 18 pay list would look something like that if all contracts were re-negotiated today, however in reality the list would be vastly different. Most contracts are negotiated for periods of between 2 to 4 years (thankfully the Swans rarely enter into longer deals) and the pay scale is usually based on the worth of the player at the time the deal was signed. Eg (hypothetically) if Brett Kirk were re-signing today, I have no doubt that he would be able to ask for (and get) a $900,000 three year deal (incidentally, that?s not necessarily $300,000 p/a); if his current contract was negotiated at the end of 2002, he would probably now be in the middle of a $500,000 three year deal. Barry Hall?s current worth is undoubtedly around $2,000,000 over three years, but as he is still playing under his original contract with us, his current deal would be about half that.

                    Players who are in B1?s position right now (experience/contract timing/form/perceived value to other clubs) are the ones who get paid close to what they are actually worth (or a little more); players who are playing on their first (post-draft) contract, who are rapidly improving, are usually underpaid. Players on their second-last contracts are usually over-paid and are often offered reduced contracts to finish off their careers. Eg If Maxfield?s contract expired at the end of this season (and assume that he was earning $400,000 in the last year of that deal) he may only be offered a $200,000 one-year deal to finish off his career.

                    Comment

                    • SwallowdaFonz
                      Pushing for Selection
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 79

                      #70
                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by bricon
                      Barry Hall?s current worth is undoubtedly around $2,000,000 over three years, but as he is still playing under his original contract with us, his current deal would be about half that.

                      And there is the answer to those who reckon paying too much leaves a player no motivation to perform. Underpay them and you might get great performance - as long as you can keep them.

                      Comment

                      • Nico
                        Veterans List
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 11339

                        #71
                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: B1 worth ~$300K pa??

                        Originally posted by footyhead
                        A tagger ??
                        Crap.
                        http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

                        Comment

                        • Charlie
                          On the Rookie List
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 4101

                          #72
                          Originally posted by NMWBloods
                          Here is a possible level of payment for our top 18:

                          Code:
                          Hall		600
                          Goodes		500
                          O'Loughlin	500
                          Williams 400
                          Maxfield 400
                          Ball		300
                          Barry		300
                          Schauble	                300
                          J Bolton	                300
                          Kirk		250
                          Mathews		250
                          Davis		250
                          Fosdike		200
                          Crouch		200
                          Nicks		200
                          Saddington	200
                          C Bolton 150
                          Kennelly 150
                          That's $5.5m - doesn't leave a lot left under the cap for the remainder.

                          And there are a few underpaid if this is where the relativities are.
                          Just some adjustments to this from what I remember hearing over the past couple of years.

                          You've got Hall at about $100k above what he is reportedly getting. Goodes between $50-100k over. O'Loughlin is getting $1.4million over 4 years or something similar... it's front loaded slightly so we could estimate $400k. Williams is probably about right; maybe only slightly over. Haven't heard, but I can't see Maxi on $400k - he signed a contract in 2002 I thought, when he was under an injury cloud (albeit also when he was favourite for the captaincy).

                          Ball we've discussed - the fact that he is on one-year deals suggests that his age and injury potential are taken into account; I'm thinking there's a lot of performance-based incentives. Most of the rest look about right, except Saddo who is, I believe, on considerably more and Craig Bolton who's on a base contract of no more than $90,000. Does that include match payments? Because it must be remembered that these are a fixed percentage of the cap regardless of who receives them.

                          I suspect you've overestimated, in total, by a few hundred thousand. And considering what I posted about the younger guys, it sounds like our balance is pretty good.
                          We hate Anthony Rocca
                          We hate Shannon Grant too
                          We hate scumbag Gaspar
                          But Leo WE LOVE YOU!

                          Comment

                          • chammond
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 1368

                            #73
                            Originally posted by NMWBloods
                            But Kirk also does great defensive work, and Williams has been far more effective over a number of years. Bolton hasn't risen to these heights yet, and who is to say he will.

                            These would be the polls and best player listings that are often mainly based on stats.

                            Not saying he is not useful, but he is nowhere near most of those players just named, and I think $300K is a little steep.
                            Yeah, but apart from my own B&F prediction, the ratings are from independent sources . . . . i.e. not from Swans' fans. The point being that the AFL world at large rates Bolton very highly . . . certainly well within the $300k bracket.

                            Either way you are looking at the Bolton boy wonder with rose colourd glasses me thinks , and so is anyone who has jude in our top 4 : Barry Hall, Brett Kirk, Leo Barry , Jason Ball, Jarred crouch, Paul Beven, even Goodes in his hooror post brownlow seasone are all above Jude now. And possibly so are a few others ...
                            Aah, F-head, you're always good for a laugh . . . it's just a pity that I miss most of your humour because your posts are almost impossible to read.

                            Anyhow, of the players you refer to, only Hall, Kirk, Mathews and Williams are performing at the level of Bolton J this season . . . not my assessment, but the ratings of independent experts.

                            If you believe that the player of the year rankings are somehow misleading, then I refer you instead to the "Champion Data Rankings" that appear in the Murdoch rags, which also confirms that Bolton is in the top echelon of players.

                            Comment

                            • NMWBloods
                              Taking Refuge!!
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 15819

                              #74
                              Originally posted by chammond
                              Yeah, but apart from my own B&F prediction, the ratings are from independent sources . . . . i.e. not from Swans' fans. The point being that the AFL world at large rates Bolton very highly . . .
                              Yes, but as I say, it is mainly based on stats, not an actual assessment of effectiveness or contribution.
                              Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                              "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                              Comment

                              • chammond
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 1368

                                #75
                                Originally posted by NMWBloods
                                Yes, but as I say, it is mainly based on stats, not an actual assessment of effectiveness or contribution.
                                No, I don't think that's correct. These ratings are a mix of stats and 'expert' assessments . . . . opinions mostly that are no more or less valid than your or my opinion.

                                None of this changes the point . . . it is these 'expert' ratings of Bolton's worth that mould public opinion and influence contract negotiations, and if Joseph's reputation is anything to go by, he would make every possible use he could out of them.

                                Comment

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