$3000 Man

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by cressakel
And 21 handballs that went nowhere. F%#@*ng handballs don't win games of footy. Kirk's main role is to tag and if he gets stats in the process, then it's a bonus.

Let me follow up on this some more as I have watched the game again. Kirk gets so many handballs because he puts himself into the middle of packs and around stoppages, collects the balls cleanly, and then handballs out to a player in the clear. He did this a number of times on the weekend. This is what a good inside player should do. He also recognises that his kicks are not the best, so he often plays as a link man too, giving the ball to a better kick in a better position.

This is so obvious that it shouldn't need explaining and shouldn't need someone to complain that this sort of play doesn't win games.

[cressakel]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Let me follow up on this some more as I have watched the game again. Kirk gets so many handballs because he puts himself into the middle of packs and around stoppages, collects the balls cleanly, and then handballs out to a player in the clear. He did this a number of times on the weekend. This is what a good inside player should do. He also recognises that his kicks are not the best, so he often plays as a link man too, giving the ball to a better kick in a better position.

This is so obvious that it shouldn't need explaining and shouldn't need someone to complain that this sort of play doesn't win games.

And more often than not those kicks from Kirk's handballs went nowhere because Kirk had a) put his teammate ( Bolton included ) under immense pressure and b) the kicks ( including Bolton's kicks ) went to a pack situation which we invariably came off second best due to overhandballing in the first place and Freo having double the numbers back - which gets back to my point that handballing doesn't win football games !

Newsflash - watch Brisbane play the game in numbers straight down the ground by long kicks to the likes Lynch, Brown, Bradshaw and if they don't mark the crumbers of Akermanis, Voss, McRae etc etc crumb the spilt marks and either look for an option by KICKING to a teammate or KICKING at goal.

Simple game plan really - best exemplified by Alan Jeans basic philosphy that the best way to kick goals is to have the ball in the forward line and to have the ball in the forward line you have to go straight down the ground !

That is why Kirk's handballs are useless - look at the bigger picture and not just the handball to a teammate, as the ball then goes to the opposition and and the swings and roundabouts start again back to where Kirky gave off the handball. Hence Kirks stats build up in the meantime.

I love Kirky but I'd rather he'd have 13 long and effective kicks and 2 handballs than 21 ineffective handballs and 8 short kicks.

Stats are nothing, it is what is done with the puck that counts.

Do you now understand where I am coming from or is there another bulls@#t spin you can put onto the above explanation from myself ?!

P.S. The only bloke at Brisbane who gets close to the amount of hanballs Kirky has is Simon Black, but he is the exception to the rule as his handballs are worth a kick due to the space he creates for teammates.

[swansrule100]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Let me follow up on this some more as I have watched the game again. Kirk gets so many handballs because he puts himself into the middle of packs and around stoppages, collects the balls cleanly, and then handballs out to a player in the clear. He did this a number of times on the weekend. This is what a good inside player should do. He also recognises that his kicks are not the best, so he often plays as a link man too, giving the ball to a better kick in a better position.

This is so obvious that it shouldn't need explaining and shouldn't need someone to complain that this sort of play doesn't win games.

agree... tho ur always on the money !

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by cressakel
And more often than not those kicks from Kirk's handballs went nowhere because Kirk had a) put his teammate ( Bolton included ) under immense pressure

It certainly wasn't 'More often than not.' I counted maybe 3 out of his handballs that effectively went to players under pressure. There were also quite a number that cleared stoppages and broke the game open.

Newsflash - watch Brisbane play the game in numbers straight down the ground by long kicks to the likes Lynch, Brown, Bradshaw and if they don't mark the crumbers of Akermanis, Voss, McRae etc etc crumb the spilt marks and either look for an option by KICKING to a teammate or KICKING at goal.

Newsflash - we have one guy who can take contested marks and no one ever seems to be able to regularly scout the packs the way Brisbane do.

Simple game plan really - best exemplified by Alan Jeans basic philosphy that the best way to kick goals is to have the ball in the forward line and to have the ball in the forward line you have to go straight down the ground !

Nothing wrong with a combination of handballing and kicking to get it down the ground. If Kirk is at the bottom of the pack or surrounded by opposition players, then a handball to a teammate in space is the best option.

That is why Kirk's handballs are useless - look at the bigger picture and not just the handball to a teammate, as the ball then goes to the opposition and and the swings and roundabouts start again back to where Kirky gave off the handball. Hence Kirks stats build up in the meantime.

They're not useless. As I said, and just watched, a number of them were given from pack siutations and went to players in the clear.

I love Kirky but I'd rather he'd have 13 long and effective kicks and 2 handballs than 21 ineffective handballs and 8 short kicks.

This is a ridiculous comparison because he didn't have 21 ineffective handballs.

Do you now understand where I am coming from or is there another bulls@#t spin you can put onto the above explanation from myself ?!

You don't seem to be able to cope with someone disagreeing and debating with you.

[NMWBloods]

I thought J Bolton had just an ordinary game on the weekend. Certainly not our worst, but I would expect better from one of our senior players and supposedly our best midfielder.

I went through the tape and watched the game again. Given the frequent discussion over his effectiveness of Bolton, amongst some notes I took I also noted down what Bolton did during the game.

Quarter 1

18:58 - Held by Bell - free kick. Short 20m pass to Mathews, drops short at his feet.

17:56 - Handball receive from Goodes, handballs onto Ball, which drops short.

16:57 - Loose bouncing ball in centre - dives on it and drags it in. Nearly penalised for holding - tunnels it out behind him to a Docker player.

14:57 - Attempts to crumb ball from missed mark, falls over and loses ball.

12:47 - Schammer brushes off his tackle at F50 and kicks to Longmire (who kicks first goal).

9:44 - Free kick for Medhurst timewasting. Short 20m pass in back pocket.

5:39 * - Ball taps ball at centre bounce to Bolton who kicks straight up in the air.

4:43 * - Receives handball from Kirk in pack, and in the clear kicks into Docker player in front of him.

1:31 * - Receives handball in centre, short 25m pass into F50 straight to Docker player.

0:05 * - Grabs ball at centre bounce, tackled, balls slews off side of boot 15m to wing where Dockers get it.

First quarter - 7 disposals, 4 poor plays.

Quarter 2

19:46 + - Grabs ball at centre bounce, kicks forward 40m into F50.

14:50 + - Receives neat backhand tap from Ball at centre bounce, kicks left foot 35m to Schneider at F50, although it drops wide and short.

Second quarter - 2 disposals, 2 good plays.

Quarter 3

19:18 * - Receives handball, tackled, and handballs straight to Docker player.

17:56 + - Gets ball at centre bounce and handballs to Crouch (who handballs to another Swan who clears centre).

17:00 - Overruns bouncing ball at centre bounce.

16:20 - Held by Headland - free kick. Good 35m pass to O'Keefe.

15:27 + - Reads Sandilands' tap, and kicks ball forward 40m where O'Keefe marks.

14:34 - Held by Headland - free kick. Pass 35m to Ball, but knocked away by Dockers.

12:22 - Handball receive from Kirk, and handballs to Ball (who then handballs on further - ball taken forward through centre and goal kicked).

7:14 + - Tackles Woods - free kick for throw. Kicks slightly backwards 20m to Goodes.

Third quarter - 7 disposals, 3 good plays, 1 poor play.

Quarter 4
13:27 - Loose ball get - kicks 25m to Buchanan, drops short at his feet.

12:49 - Handball received - tackled - handball to Kirk.

10:25 - Gets bouncing ball, throws it on foot, it slews 20m sideways to boundary.

10:11 + - Freekick - Headland holding the ball (benefit from new interp for weekend). Pass 35m to McVeigh in centre.

6:53 - Handball receive from Ablett - 20m pass to O'Keefe at F50.

5:56 - Unable to gather ball cleanly from a pack mark. Dockers take ball away.

0:48 - Alone in centre - receives pass from Goodes - kick 40m to O'Loughlin, but Dockers spoil and take ball away.

Third quarter - 7 disposals, 1 good play.

Overall he did some good thing and some poor things, which roughly net out. However, the rest of his disposals are not particularly damaging and he doesn't hurt the opposition, nor does he actually set up a lot of play or make the play and drive the game as good midfielders can do. He runs around and throws his body in and racks up possessions, but he is not a major threat.

As I say, he's okay and makes a useful 2nd or 3rd midfielder, but he's not particularly good and needs to improve. I thought Kirk, Nicks and O'Keefe were probably better than him on the weekend.

[cressakel]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I thought J Bolton had just an ordinary game on the weekend. Certainly not our worst, but I would expect better from one of our senior players and supposedly our best midfielder.

I went through the tape and watched the game again. Given the frequent discussion over his effectiveness of Bolton, amongst some notes I took I also noted down what Bolton did during the game.

Quarter 1

18:58 - Held by Bell - free kick. Short 20m pass to Mathews, drops short at his feet.

17:56 - Handball receive from Goodes, handballs onto Ball, which drops short.

16:57 - Loose bouncing ball in centre - dives on it and drags it in. Nearly penalised for holding - tunnels it out behind him to a Docker player.

14:57 - Attempts to crumb ball from missed mark, falls over and loses ball.

12:47 - Schammer brushes off his tackle at F50 and kicks to Longmire (who kicks first goal).

9:44 - Free kick for Medhurst timewasting. Short 20m pass in back pocket.

5:39 * - Ball taps ball at centre bounce to Bolton who kicks straight up in the air.

4:43 * - Receives handball from Kirk in pack, and in the clear kicks into Docker player in front of him.

1:31 * - Receives handball in centre, short 25m pass into F50 straight to Docker player.

0:05 * - Grabs ball at centre bounce, tackled, balls slews off side of boot 15m to wing where Dockers get it.

First quarter - 7 disposals, 4 poor plays.

Quarter 2

19:46 + - Grabs ball at centre bounce, kicks forward 40m into F50.

14:50 + - Receives neat backhand tap from Ball at centre bounce, kicks left foot 35m to Schneider at F50, although it drops wide and short.

Second quarter - 2 disposals, 2 good plays.

Quarter 3

19:18 * - Receives handball, tackled, and handballs straight to Docker player.

17:56 + - Gets ball at centre bounce and handballs to Crouch (who handballs to another Swan who clears centre).

17:00 - Overruns bouncing ball at centre bounce.

16:20 - Held by Headland - free kick. Good 35m pass to O'Keefe.

15:27 + - Reads Sandilands' tap, and kicks ball forward 40m where O'Keefe marks.

14:34 - Held by Headland - free kick. Pass 35m to Ball, but knocked away by Dockers.

12:22 - Handball receive from Kirk, and handballs to Ball (who then handballs on further - ball taken forward through centre and goal kicked).

7:14 + - Tackles Woods - free kick for throw. Kicks slightly backwards 20m to Goodes.

Third quarter - 7 disposals, 3 good plays, 1 poor play.

Quarter 4
13:27 - Loose ball get - kicks 25m to Buchanan, drops short at his feet.

12:49 - Handball received - tackled - handball to Kirk.

10:25 - Gets bouncing ball, throws it on foot, it slews 20m sideways to boundary.

10:11 + - Freekick - Headland holding the ball (benefit from new interp for weekend). Pass 35m to McVeigh in centre.

6:53 - Handball receive from Ablett - 20m pass to O'Keefe at F50.

5:56 - Unable to gather ball cleanly from a pack mark. Dockers take ball away.

0:48 - Alone in centre - receives pass from Goodes - kick 40m to O'Loughlin, but Dockers spoil and take ball away.

Third quarter - 7 disposals, 1 good play.

Overall he did some good thing and some poor things, which roughly net out. However, the rest of his disposals are not particularly damaging and he doesn't hurt the opposition, nor does he actually set up a lot of play or make the play and drive the game as good midfielders can do. He runs around and throws his body in and racks up possessions, but he is not a major threat.

As I say, he's okay and makes a useful 2nd or 3rd midfielder, but he's not particularly good and needs to improve. I thought Kirk, Nicks and O'Keefe were probably better than him on the weekend.

Can't beat information and stats.....

[sharpie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I thought J Bolton had just an ordinary game on the weekend. Certainly not our worst, but I would expect better from one of our senior players and supposedly our best midfielder.

I went through the tape and watched the game again. Given the frequent discussion over his effectiveness of Bolton, amongst some notes I took I also noted down what Bolton did during the game.

Quarter 1

18:58 - Held by Bell - free kick. Short 20m pass to Mathews, drops short at his feet.

17:56 - Handball receive from Goodes, handballs onto Ball, which drops short.

16:57 - Loose bouncing ball in centre - dives on it and drags it in. Nearly penalised for holding - tunnels it out behind him to a Docker player.

14:57 - Attempts to crumb ball from missed mark, falls over and loses ball.

12:47 - Schammer brushes off his tackle at F50 and kicks to Longmire (who kicks first goal).

9:44 - Free kick for Medhurst timewasting. Short 20m pass in back pocket.

5:39 * - Ball taps ball at centre bounce to Bolton who kicks straight up in the air.

4:43 * - Receives handball from Kirk in pack, and in the clear kicks into Docker player in front of him.

1:31 * - Receives handball in centre, short 25m pass into F50 straight to Docker player.

0:05 * - Grabs ball at centre bounce, tackled, balls slews off side of boot 15m to wing where Dockers get it.

First quarter - 7 disposals, 4 poor plays.

Quarter 2

19:46 + - Grabs ball at centre bounce, kicks forward 40m into F50.

14:50 + - Receives neat backhand tap from Ball at centre bounce, kicks left foot 35m to Schneider at F50, although it drops wide and short.

Second quarter - 2 disposals, 2 good plays.

Quarter 3

19:18 * - Receives handball, tackled, and handballs straight to Docker player.

17:56 + - Gets ball at centre bounce and handballs to Crouch (who handballs to another Swan who clears centre).

17:00 - Overruns bouncing ball at centre bounce.

16:20 - Held by Headland - free kick. Good 35m pass to O'Keefe.

15:27 + - Reads Sandilands' tap, and kicks ball forward 40m where O'Keefe marks.

14:34 - Held by Headland - free kick. Pass 35m to Ball, but knocked away by Dockers.

12:22 - Handball receive from Kirk, and handballs to Ball (who then handballs on further - ball taken forward through centre and goal kicked).

7:14 + - Tackles Woods - free kick for throw. Kicks slightly backwards 20m to Goodes.

Third quarter - 7 disposals, 3 good plays, 1 poor play.

Quarter 4
13:27 - Loose ball get - kicks 25m to Buchanan, drops short at his feet.

12:49 - Handball received - tackled - handball to Kirk.

10:25 - Gets bouncing ball, throws it on foot, it slews 20m sideways to boundary.

10:11 + - Freekick - Headland holding the ball (benefit from new interp for weekend). Pass 35m to McVeigh in centre.

6:53 - Handball receive from Ablett - 20m pass to O'Keefe at F50.

5:56 - Unable to gather ball cleanly from a pack mark. Dockers take ball away.

0:48 - Alone in centre - receives pass from Goodes - kick 40m to O'Loughlin, but Dockers spoil and take ball away.

Third quarter - 7 disposals, 1 good play.

Overall he did some good thing and some poor things, which roughly net out. However, the rest of his disposals are not particularly damaging and he doesn't hurt the opposition, nor does he actually set up a lot of play or make the play and drive the game as good midfielders can do. He runs around and throws his body in and racks up possessions, but he is not a major threat.

As I say, he's okay and makes a useful 2nd or 3rd midfielder, but he's not particularly good and needs to improve. I thought Kirk, Nicks and O'Keefe were probably better than him on the weekend.

You should get out more

[NMWBloods]

I've been out all morning - I taped the game yesterday and wanted to veg out and watch it again. Doesn't get much better on the second watching!!

[anne]

Originally posted by daniel f
At least his young and hopefully will improve,what about Maxfield worst disposal of any captain in the league by a mile.Not fit to tie Kels bootlace when it comes to being captain IMO.

Maxfield's body language was dreadful. He is supposed to lead the team - not to hinder them.

[swansrule100]

Originally posted by anne
Maxfield's body language was dreadful. He is supposed to lead the team - not to hinder them.

he seems very frustrated that he cant do some of the things he did in the past

[penga]

Originally posted by cressakel
The only bloke at Brisbane who gets close to the amount of hanballs Kirky has is Simon Black, but he is the exception to the rule as his handballs are worth a kick due to the space he creates for teammates.

kirk is becoming our simon black, a handball clearance to a player in space is a hell of a lot better than a blind kick

kirk releases a player into space and we desperately need him around every stoppage

for instance, 3rd quarter, bell drags kirk away from the stoppage and medhurst promptly kicks a goal

kirk needs to be released from a tagging role. if he is left at every stoppage to get the clearance, the opposition will have to be paranoid about him, he is currently 7th in the league for clearances FFS.

[swansrule100]

kirk is fast becomming one of the best midfielders in the comp

[chammond]

Another 3 Brownlow votes in the bag for Bolton J, no doubt.

BOG against the best team in the land . . . . must be worth nearly $350k by now!

[swansrule100]

wonder if people will eat their words if he goes close to a brownlow

[barry]

Surely its time we became an offensive midfield rather than a defensive one.
We may have the personal already.