Colless has to go

[Whitefox]

Originally posted by originalswan


Then the Collingwood Board that hired MATTHEWS in 1990 should have been sacked (Oops that's right he won a Premiership with a team that at best was considered good/solid.

Mattews has always made the hard decisions though and never worried about putting peoples or players noses out of joint.

[Red@WhiteBaron]

Originally posted by Whitefox
Mattews has always make the hard decisions though and never worried about putting peoples or players noses out of joint.

Very true (literally - given what sort of player he was). That's the sort of coach you need.

[footyhead]

Originally posted by originalswan
Sack Administration for employing a coach without previous Senior credentials??

Then the Collingwood Board that hired MATTHEWS in 1990 should have been sacked (Oops that's right he won a Premiership with a team that at best was considered good/solid.

Perhaps even those who hired WILLIAMS at Port should be sacked - No previous experience. Then lets get onto SHEEDY in the early 1980s. PAGAN at the Kangaroos in the early 1990's - (ONLY junior and reserves experience). I could keep going but let's just say - WHAT A MISTAKE ALL THESE OTHER TEAMS MADE!!!

Listen smart alec, all of those guys had at least twice as much experience coaching as Roos did. (except in leathal case I think but he is after all the greatest player of the game), Williams studied under Sheedy, and Pagan had junior and seconds experience as well as assisting wayne shammer (wahtever the f'k is name is).. so get your facts right.

It was rediculous to hire Roos. I doubt any other club would have given him the senior gig.

[originalswan]

People, he has a point here. Let's all not over-react. Let's all wait until Round 22 before we start having a go. By then we'll be what, 2-20???

At least then some will get their wish of early draft picks and a rebuilding period rather than always being mediocre.

Great ideas on this board - Why don't we sack everyone then give the new guys two years to perform, if they fail sack them and start another two year building program - Fantastic ideas and all from readandwhite!!!

[timr]

Plus ca change!

http://redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4059

http://redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4881

http://redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4707

[Red@WhiteBaron]

Originally posted by footyhead
Listen smart alec, all of those guys had at least twice as much experience coaching as Roos did. (except in leathal case I think but he is after all the greatest player of the game), Williams studied under Sheedy, and Pagan had junior and seconds experience as well as assisting wayne shammer (wahtever the f'k is name is).. so get your facts right.

It was rediculous to hire Roos. I doubt any other club would have given him the senior gig.

True, and I think people are letting their emotions get the better of them which is why they're shying away from criticising the team's poor performance.

Roosy was a great player - a defender - so let's get that straight.

But a great player doesn't necessarily make a great coach.

History is littered with great players who never quite made it.

Leigh Matthews was one of the all-time greatest players - many opposition players feared him, yet they also respected him.

Denis Pagan wasn't a great player, but he has a great footy brain. He coached the North U19s to 5 premierships, before going to Essendon and coaching their reserves to a premiership. He then moved up to the seniors and coached North to 2 premierships in 4 years.

Kevin Sheedy was a great player, and has helped coach Essendon to a number of grand finals and premierships. What's more important about Kevin as a coach is that his style of footy is very revolutionary rather than evolutionary. He's often bagged, but his record speaks for itself.

Mark Williams has grown up in a very successful footy family - his dad (Fos) coached Port to 9 or 10 premierships in the SANFL, which is the most successful football club in Australia. Mark played in 4 premierships with Port, and also has a good career in the AFL.

As footyhead said, there's just no comparing either of the above with Roosy from a coaching point of view.

[Whitefox]

Originally posted by originalswan

Great ideas on this board - Why don't we sack everyone then give the new guys two years to perform, if they fail sack them and start another two year building program - Fantastic ideas and all from readandwhite!!!

Perhaps you've followed Sydney that long that you think turnover just means Amon Buchanan and the gang showing up on any given weekend. However - I think it means getting rid of players who are never going to make a difference no matter where you play them or how long you play them for - and trying ones who might.

[Whitefox]

Originally posted by Red@WhiteBaron


But a great player doesn't necessarily make a great coach.

Tony Shaw

[Red@WhiteBaron]

Originally posted by Whitefox
Tony Shaw

Ha ha ha, spot on!

[originalswan]

Originall posted by whitefox Perhaps you've followed Sydney that long that you think turnover just means Amon Buchanan and the gang showing up on any given weekend. However - I think it means getting rid of players who are never going to make a difference no matter where you play them or how long you play them for - and trying ones who might.

I have never been one to believe that mediocre players should be given continuous opportunities to stay in the team. I do believe youngsters who seem ready should have a go in front of some seasoned non performing players.

However you don't understand my POINT - It is that every coach started somewhere - AND YES THEY DID HAVE SOME CRITICS BACK THEN - INCLUDING SHEEDY AND MATTHEWS! Tell me what was Sheedy's coaching experience???

I am upset like you guys perhaps even more for our current position but don't be hasty just yet - give the team at least until Round 11 then start jumpoing up and down.

And Footyhead don't forget your past posts about going down the ladder to build from the bottom - OR have you changed your philosophy? For if you believe that we should sack the coach immediately that means you believe the team can improve without Roos therefore finishing near the top again - Thereby losing your precious early draft picks once again!

[Red@WhiteBaron]

Originally posted by Whitefox
However - I think it means getting rid of players who are never going to make a difference no matter where you play them or how long you play them for - and trying ones who might.

Spot on. There seems to be a mentality in the club that rewards mediocrity with regular seniors footy appearances.

Realistically, I challenge anyone to take a look at how many players get dropped.

Our players have very little fear if they don't perform. They know they won't get dragged, and they know they'll get another gid the following week.

Look at what happens elsewhere. There are many coaches who have no fear of dropping their players for mediocre performance. It's a wake-up call, and keeps them on their feet.

[originalswan]

By the way Tony Shaw was not a "great player" he was a good solid performer and good clubman. Infact at one stage he was second behind his brother Ray Shaw who did have alot more skill!!!

[Red@WhiteBaron]

Originally posted by originalswan
By the way Tony Shaw was not a "great player" he was a good solid performer and good clubman. Infact at one stage he was second behind his brother Ray Shaw who did have alot more skill!!!

Okay so "great player" can be translated any number of ways. The fact of the matter remains that Tony Shaw played 320-odd games with the Pies and that's an impressive record in itself.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Whitefox
Perhaps you've followed Sydney that long that you think turnover just means Amon Buchanan and the gang showing up on any given weekend. However - I think it means getting rid of players who are never going to make a difference no matter where you play them or how long you play them for - and trying ones who might.

100% agree. No point trying the same players over and over again if they aren't performing on the field. Thats the biggest problem this club faces. We NEVER drop a so-called "high profile" players, only rookies who are performing better.

Mark my words the only changes this week will be Mathews and Ball returning to the team with LRT, McVeigh and Dempster the likely ones to be dropped, not Schneider, not Buchanan and not Maxfield.

I'm sick to death of our rookies not being given ANY proper gametime when they make the seniors and I'm sick of the amount of chances some players get.

[BonBon]

Originally posted by robbieando
100% agree. No point trying the same players over and over again if they aren't performing on the field.

It's like trying to enforce a rule but if you can't enforce the rule, you have to change it. So, lets change some of the players.