Why not Cousins?

[T-bag]

FFS, Ben Cousins, admittedly along with one or two teammates - but for the most part by his own actions, brought a top club with a list the envy of every other team in the league and at the peak of its powers virtually to its knees by his actions.

You can't even start to compare Lockett and Hall's problems at St Kilda with the issues Cousins brought to his club.

I couldn't give a stuff if he was able to reproduce his peak form, his sort is not welcome at the Swans. And if you can't see that, you're ignorant, uninformed or not a true fan of the club.

I'd say, most likely, UNINFORMED

[T-bag]

Now.....take a deep breath.....and see if you can actually come up with a valid argument as to why you think Cousins shouldn't be at the club. No insults, no personal attacks at those that disagree with you, facts.

Have you read this thread? All the valid arguments for and against are inside this thread. It's just how people perceive those arguments.

[T-bag]

He is every bit the match winner Davis ever was. Davis won us one game, Cousins has single handedly won West Coast alot more than one

Yep, that is a pretty good argument in context to Liz's reply. But comparing Ben Cousins to Nick Davis is like comparing sheep @@@@ and strawberry jam

You can argue which is which

[T-bag]

I agree CTS, it is usually thrown around by people who have no real basis to their argument (either that or they don't know how to articulate it properly). It is one term that really annoys me when bandied around the way it is at times on this forum.

I guess, from what I have seen, that others feel the same, that's why they often take the "mickey" out of it on some threads too.

Stop attacking poster's opinions you two

[T-bag]

West Coast?s list was the envy of the competition, despite inadequacies up forward. Like the Swans, they went within a kick of back-to-back flags, and actually went closer than we did the following year, all this with the likes of Cousins and Gardiner doing as they pleased.

The poster I was referring to said the following: At the end of the day, if he's kicking goals and winning games for us who cares..... The implication being, who cares what problems he brings to the club with him. That, in my view, is the words of someone who does not actually care about the well-being of the club, and is therefore not a true fan.

That Cousins is not welcome at the Swans is a point that has been made by the club, so it is fair and reasonable to bring that up on this forum.

For the record I am a paid up member but, on the strength of my feelings about Cousins not playing at the Swans, I would have to consider whether I would continue to put the money in for the period of time that he is at the club.

My support has been strongly tested in the past, having been born and bred in Melbourne, it all but broke my heart when South Melbourne was forced to move to Sydney. In my first few visits to home games in Sydney, when there were a handful of people there, many of whom admitted their tickets were free, my faith was tested further.

Like many of you, I felt strongly enough about Terry Wallace?s potential coaching contract that I voiced my opinion, however thankfully my support was not to be tested on that occasion.

I would see any offer of a contract to Ben Cousins as being of at least equal concern to that of Wallace. However I can say this with confidence as, the likelihood of him going anywhere near joining the Swans is negligible - at best.

seems articulate enough for me

[ScottH]

Am I to read between the lines and am thinking that he is now retired.

Nope, career has many years to run.

[ScottH]

Our total SENIOR list is 38 plus two veterans (MOL and LB). Two players retired (Benny and Everitt) plus we delisted four (Davo, Luke B, Peter Faulks and Thorton.

We then traded for Ryce Shaw; prompted Smith and Dwyer from the Rookie List. This left the minimum three mandatory picks at the National Draft - Johnston, Haneberry and Heath. Thus there is NO PLACE on our list for Ben Cousins. So how about we stop this thread.

Thanks for that. Didn't get around to researching that.

Don't like your chances of the thread stopping though!

[goswannie14]

Have you read this thread? All the valid arguments for and against are inside this thread. It's just how people perceive those arguments.

Thanks for stating the obvious. The post I was challenging was one that got personal instead of addressing the argument.

Stop attacking poster's opinions you two

great idea Lets have a discussion/argument when we don't disagree or challenge other peoples views.

[Nico]

i am amazed how the general footy community has come down on Cousins..
I certainly dont condone what he did, but sometimes i think we forget or our expectation s of sporting people is that they are above all of life's surroundings and scenerios..

He has come out and admitted to a drug problem..well good on him..its the first step for any addict to admit they ahve a problem...

If the footy community think that he and the other ones thathave tested pos are the only ones who have tried or are using drus you would be very small minded or niave..

Cousins is pretty much the fall guy for alot of the players ion the system..
Do we all forget what one ex swan stated and we (footy community) condemmed him..

i personally am in favour of giving peple second chances, and u could say well how many chances does he need, well his second chance comes after admitting he has a problem and begins to deal with it...

whether he ended up at the swans or at another club, from my understanding virtually every football dept would love to have him, but it gets stopped at board level, he is a terrific player which deserves another chance and is a great story..

how many fans would come out in round one to watch ben play..some may say no..but how many non members would come to watch him play which exposes new fans to the game..

the gains on field and from a marketing side far outway the risks..
maybe the AFL needs to offer some sort of medical leeway like rama and other players etc...

Rama, for goodness sake had cancer. How can you even think of comparing favours for him as against someone who made a conscious decision to take addictive drugs and knew the risks to health and career. It would be an insult to Rama to allow Cousins to be a mature rookie. That is one of the greatest oxymorons of all time.

What I would like to know is how come many footy people and the footy media in Melbourne and probably Perth seem to think the AFL and its clubs owes it to this bloke as part of his recovery to be drafted and accepted back....as a second chance.

Jamie Mott, a jockey in Victoria is serving 6 months for testing positive and Racing Victoria isn't calling for everyone to have sympathy for him. They look at it differently; he is a danger to his fellow jockeys by taking a mind affecting substance and won't be allowed back onto a horse until he is categorically as clean as a whistle, and he was lucky only getting 6 months. The Jockeys Association will be looking after him to a point but RV won't be falling over themselves to let him back on. Like Cousins he knew the risks. They both knew the rules, they were both heavily educated by their respective bodies yet ignored the risks. A few other jockeys have been done in the past and to my knowledge none are now riding.

Frankly I reckon the AFL has been easy on him and as a lady said on the radio today; Cousins hardly spent any time in rehab and she was talking from a point of some knowledge on the subject. Sure everyone is entitled to a second chance and if he were my son I would be doing everything to help him, but why should it be a given that it is the AFL, or is that where he can earn the most money.

It appears Ben Cousins has been a top footballer but has been bereft of good decisions as an adult. I doubt he has a future anywhere at the elite football level.

The point about others players using recreational drugs might have been valid, but I would doubt very few now will be dumb enough to do it, as the Cousins case has been so high profile I would suggest anyone contemplating it has pulled their heads in. Imagine the parents of recent draftees; they will watching their sons like a hawk and drilling the anti drugs message into them adnausium, as will the clubs. There is too much at stake, for both during and after footy.

[Cardinal]

All the moralising about drugs shouldn?t shock me considering where the vocal minority has taken drug?s policy and tried to shape public perceptions but it never fails to amaze me. The problem with moralising is it?s got a general foundation in hypocrisy and/or ignorance not to mention it?s basically counterproductive.

Drugs are a health issue and should be treated as such. Half the issue with Ben Cousins is that people can't reconcile a 'junkie' being a super star on the field - it doesn't fit with their conceptions of the harm caused by drugs. The possible consequences of taking drugs are terrible but not necessarily the norm. I just think for some it?s easier to write Cousins off as bad person than explain why he?s the got the most athletic body of any ?junkie? I?ve seen in the manuals.

[robamiee]

Hey Nico

it was a generalisation about medical leeway, not comparing Rama'
s issues to cousins's.
so get off your high horse....
considering addiction is a medical condition...
there is no point taking any experts point as you will always find an expert to contradict the other expert.

no one is suggesting well i am not that Cousins is owed anything from any of the clubs, my personal opinion is he deserves a second chance as it would be sad to see a great footballer bow out the way he has...

if u think just because of ben's actions that other aren't or wont in the future then u are niave(not to be rude to you or that your not entitled to an opinion)
but other players and will continue to..

[Cardinal]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/players-union-slams-afl/2008/12/03/1228257139467.html

Looks like I'm not the only one sick of the moralising

[AnnieH]

Damn ... someone PM me with the "legal" issue!!

[undy]

... I just think for some it?s easier to write Cousins off as bad person than explain why he?s the got the most athletic body of any ?junkie? I?ve seen in the manuals.

See here - there are a few athletes in there that your manual of athletic junked bodies may have missed.

[MarshallG]

Fosdike Out

Cousins In