Why not Cousins?

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  • barlow
    On the Rookie List
    • Aug 2007
    • 18

    Originally posted by The Big Cat
    I'd be screaming my lungs out alright and I'd be on the phone to Sydney asking:
    (a) How our club had fallen to such desperate depths.
    (b) How our club could reward a player whose cheating probably cost our team a back to back flag.
    (c) How our total team values had been pitched out the window in pursuit of a possible (and I say possible advisedly) short term gain.
    (d) Why we were destroying the respect we have with all groups in the footy community.
    Get a grip. It's footy. And since the year dot if you can get hold of a player who can win you a flag you go after him. That 's all there is to it. I'll tell you what's "vomitous". And that is the we didn't signed him. It is no right of ours to know what goes on in his personal life. Role models? Leave me alone. They're spoiled kids who can run and kick a ball. Political correctness is killing this game.

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    • BSA5
      Senior Player
      • Feb 2008
      • 2522

      It's all very well to say "Cousins can win us a flag", but can he? Do you honestly think, with a guy who is yet to debut as our second ruckman, a midfield composed of either guys approaching 22 or guys approaching 32 (discounting McVeigh), a forwardline that relies on Hall and O'Loughlin who are both slow and injury prone in their old age (far, FAR from useless, but hardly rocks up forward like they have been over the years), and an incredibly undersized defensive unit that is suffering more and more each year as the rules change to make it almost impossible to defend one on one against a guy more than 3 cm taller than you, that we have a realistic shot at the flag next year, with or without Cousins?

      We're in a rebuilding phase. That doesn't mean we have to slide down to the bottom of the ladder, but right now, we've got a massive lack of 23-27 year olds. Our old guys are being phased out, our new guys are being brought in. To win a Premiership, you need stability, you need a core group to lead you there. Right now, our core is missing, and we're relying on the outer shells, the young guys and the old guys, to win us games. That's great, but it's not going to win us a premiership, and adding another 30 year old star isn't going to change that.
      Officially on the Reid and Sumner bandwagon!

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      • dimelb
        pr. dim-melb; m not f
        • Jun 2003
        • 6889

        Originally posted by BSA5
        It's all very well to say "Cousins can win us a flag", but can he? Do you honestly think, with a guy who is yet to debut as our second ruckman, a midfield composed of either guys approaching 22 or guys approaching 32 (discounting McVeigh), a forwardline that relies on Hall and O'Loughlin who are both slow and injury prone in their old age (far, FAR from useless, but hardly rocks up forward like they have been over the years), and an incredibly undersized defensive unit that is suffering more and more each year as the rules change to make it almost impossible to defend one on one against a guy more than 3 cm taller than you, that we have a realistic shot at the flag next year, with or without Cousins?

        We're in a rebuilding phase. That doesn't mean we have to slide down to the bottom of the ladder, but right now, we've got a massive lack of 23-27 year olds. Our old guys are being phased out, our new guys are being brought in. To win a Premiership, you need stability, you need a core group to lead you there. Right now, our core is missing, and we're relying on the outer shells, the young guys and the old guys, to win us games. That's great, but it's not going to win us a premiership, and adding another 30 year old star isn't going to change that.
        True, it's unlikely, even highly unlikely, but after last year's boilover I wouldn't say impossible. Then I think of a very dark horse from Canada who is bigger than Buddy and probably faster, who can mark a ball and who might work out where to run; who knows where we might end up? Mind you, I prefer not to have BC and to keep going in the current direction.
        He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

        Comment

        • connolly
          Registered User
          • Aug 2005
          • 2461

          Originally posted by 573v30
          So Cousins has been failing drug tests now? Source?
          He didn't fail a drug test during his playing days because the testing regime was absurdly inadequate. Justin Charles took steriods and cheated against players who didn't. The club failed to detect his cheating and played him apparently oblivious to his steriod use. That constitutes an abysmal record because they were either grossly negligent or . . . . They are a good fit for Cuz. They deserve each other.
          Bevo bandwagon driver

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          • connolly
            Registered User
            • Aug 2005
            • 2461

            Originally posted by goswannie14
            ...and Richmond has an abysmal drugs record because of one player!

            It must be lonely for some people in their self righteous ivory towers.
            See above. Its not the numbers that are important its the act. This isn't about the right of individuals to stupify themselves or grow chemically induced big muscles. Its about the integrity of the game. Particularly with EPO and human growth hormone all sports are in jeopardy. The AFL's attitude to drugs in sport would be a joke if it wasn't so serious.
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            • Xie Shan
              Senior Player
              • Jan 2003
              • 2929

              Originally posted by mcs
              No doubt it will help them, but they are still nothing but a mediocre mid table team!
              Actually, no. You'll see.*

              *Yes, that's my big call for 2009 and I'm going early with it. They won't win the flag but will surprise a lot of people, with or without Cuz.

              Comment

              • mcs
                Travelling Swannie!!
                • Jul 2007
                • 8149

                fair enough Xie Shan, but imo they only have one quality player (Perhaps 2 if Cousdog ends up there) in Richo. A lot of decent players, but nothing special and I just don't rate them. I think they will improve on last year, but not by a lot really and will maybe sneak into the eight but disappear rather quickly. Who knows?
                "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

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                • givekidsakick
                  On the Rookie List
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 178

                  Originally posted by connolly
                  See above. Its not the numbers that are important its the act. This isn't about the right of individuals to stupify themselves or grow chemically induced big muscles. Its about the integrity of the game. Particularly with EPO and human growth hormone all sports are in jeopardy. The AFL's attitude to drugs in sport would be a joke if it wasn't so serious.
                  integrity of the game......wanker....who cares....when Plugger kicked the goals who cared that he smashed Caven....you and every other SWans fan yell for Plugger just as we booed him every time he touched the ball after Caven as he kicked 10 goals and won the game for St Kilda.

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                  • connolly
                    Registered User
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 2461

                    Originally posted by givekidsakick
                    integrity of the game......wanker....who cares....when Plugger kicked the goals who cared that he smashed Caven....you and every other SWans fan yell for Plugger just as we booed him every time he touched the ball after Caven as he kicked 10 goals and won the game for St Kilda.
                    So Plugger was on steriods?? Drug use isn't just about breaking the rules or noses . Its about unfair advantage. Like a rational person has in a discussion with an imbecile. For example. If you know what i mean.
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                    • Triple B
                      Formerly 'BBB'
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 6999

                      Originally posted by mcs
                      ......but imo they only have one quality player (Perhaps 2 if Cousdog ends up there) in Richo. A lot of decent players, but nothing special and I just don't rate them.
                      You don't rate Cotchin ?????
                      Driver of the Dan Hannebery bandwagon....all aboard. 4th April 09

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                      • 573v30
                        On the bandwagon...
                        • Sep 2005
                        • 5017

                        Originally posted by Triple B
                        You don't rate Cotchin ?????
                        ...or Deledio, Newman, King, Foley, Brown or Tuck?
                        I only support one team: The SYDNEY SWANS!!!!! :adore

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                        • jdow
                          On the Rookie List
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 54

                          Originally posted by connolly
                          He didn't fail a drug test during his playing days because the testing regime was absurdly inadequate. Justin Charles took steriods and cheated against players who didn't. The club failed to detect his cheating and played him apparently oblivious to his steriod use. That constitutes an abysmal record because they were either grossly negligent or . . . . They are a good fit for Cuz. They deserve each other.

                          Your not giving a fair view of the Charles case it wasn't quite that simple, but I suspect you know that. I also suspect you were looking for any straw to grab onto to surpport your argument

                          Comment

                          • goswannie14
                            Leadership Group
                            • Sep 2005
                            • 11166

                            Originally posted by jdow
                            Your not giving a fair view of the Charles case it wasn't quite that simple, but I suspect you know that. I also suspect you were looking for any straw to grab onto to surpport your argument
                            Yes, I looked it up too. It wasn't quite (alright, it wasn't anything like) what was described. But then, you know what they say "Never let facts get in the way of a good argument".
                            Does God believe in Atheists?

                            Comment

                            • connolly
                              Registered User
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 2461

                              Originally posted by jdow
                              Your not giving a fair view of the Charles case it wasn't quite that simple, but I suspect you know that. I also suspect you were looking for any straw to grab onto to surpport your argument
                              Lets look at all the facts:

                              1. The cheat tested positive to Boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17?-ol) a common drug used in equestrian sports. A lot of sports drugs in Australia come through the horse racing industry into human competition. Don't ask for the data, its anecdotal but persuasive.

                              2. Charles had a mediocre career at Footscray, took a season off and competed in the US baseball comp, where Boldenone is a not uncommon performance enhancing drug.

                              3. Boldenone is typically used in an off-season to build size and strehgth. Both things needed by Charles who came back bigger, stronger and better from the US.

                              4. He was "surprisingly" recruited by Richmond. Here was a player with an ordinary record from a mediocre club who gets picked up after a 12 month lay -off.

                              5. And guess what fairy stories do come true. The ordinary player astomishingly polls 17 votes in the Brownlow in his comback year to FINISH FIFTH IN THE COUNT (1996). He was beaten by Voss and Hird. He had become an elite level footballer after a season off playing in the US lower baseball leagues where steriod abuse was rife.

                              7. A team mate of Charles was Benny Gale the mouthpiece of the AFPLA which has campaigned long and hard against a strong AFL drug testing regime.

                              8. So get this. The Richmond conditioners , coaches, a law student team mate in the ruck who played alongside him and medical staff were completely taken unawares by the extraordinary increase in the performance of Charles and thought apparently that he had just got bigger and better as an AFL footballer by playing baseball in Miami.

                              9. And if you or anyone believes that Charles positive was the result of theraputic treatment then please apply for a position as a racing steward. Some of us need that kind of belief.

                              Richmond deserve the little grub. He should feel right at home.
                              Last edited by connolly; 14 December 2008, 04:22 PM.
                              Bevo bandwagon driver

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                              • connolly
                                Registered User
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 2461

                                Originally posted by jdow
                                Your not giving a fair view of the Charles case it wasn't quite that simple, but I suspect you know that. I also suspect you were looking for any straw to grab onto to surpport your argument
                                If that means that Charles claim the in-season theraputic use caused the positive. Just listen to Victor Conte. Just out of jail after running the biggest and most successful drug sports lab and network that put Marion Jones across the line.


                                "It's that off-season training, this strength base, that serves them months later during the competitive season,'' Conte said.

                                "So, it tells me athletes aren't going to be using now, around the Olympics. They were using when there was no testing.''

                                In Charles time the off season drug testing in AFL was weaker than it is now. Boldenone stays in the system for up to 18 months. He was just unlucky.
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