2010 Delistings & Retirements

[Primmy]

I get the impression these blokes - Vesz, Ed and MOD - gave up towards the end of the season given their lackluster reserves performances towards the end. Probably no surprise to them they are gone and we know in Vesz's case, he just wanted a change.

Don't know about the others, but I was keeping an eye on Ed in his last game and noted that he was sparking on all four in the first half (out at ANZ) and then disappeared. Turns out he got injured. It was probably the last straw.

I was disappointed because I feel I got a glimpse of what he could have done, and then he was gone.

[BSA5]

Not sure about that. I thought McMahon's disposal was quite good early in his career but he was a soft, inside runner. At Richmond - with his confidence probably down - his disposal did seem to deteriorate. I think MOD was a lot harder than McMahon and was very very good overhead but the inconsistency of his kicking, and maybe a lack of focus on his career, are probably what cost him.

OK, maybe not "much" better, but his kicking was solid. I can't remember much about McMahon's kicking early in his career, but I remember it being absolutely horrendous in his Richmond days. MOD's kicking at senior level was fine, and in the games I saw him play for the reserves (only a few this season), his kicking appeared to be quite good.

I definitely agree with the part about the focus on his career. Of course, this is purely second hand, but judging by what Roos and co said in the media (including a comment about application which was specifically directed at MOD, I think late last year?), he was a player who just wasn't willing to pull his finger out.

[SimonH]

For any veteran, part of their salary sits outside the cap. ... Also, a rookie only has to be given a one year contract initially whereas a player taken in the ND gets two years, so you can cut your losses sooner with a rookie if you want.

I'd always thought that only clubs with salary cap problems, and clubs who for some reason wanted to have heaps of rookies, would ever be mad enough not to use outside veterans if they had them. Now you put it this way, I can't see why a club in Sydney's position would place vets outside the main list. Let's face it, whoever we would be thinking of getting with pick 107 (or something) in the ND, is overwhelmingly likely to be available come our first RD pick. So we don't need to beef up our senior list by using every conceivable ND pick. Once that's out of the way, it seems to be all upside for the Swans-- loadsa flexibility to reward whichever rookie's playing well, without having to wait for a long-term injury.

If Pyke gets permanent promotion, no-one goes outside (so to speak), and Sydney take the advertised 3 ND picks, this is ordinary news for Nathan Gordon who will have to 'drop back' to the rookie list.

[stellation]

MOD has MUCH better disposal than Jordan McMahon. They are a similar type of player though, and MOD didn't help the comparison when he grew that seedy moustache that McMahon also had!

Oh I don't know, as a young guy Jordan was a decent enough kick and I think had better skills than Matty at the same time. It (along with pace) is what allowed him to string so many game together.

I'm willing to admit that it's a primarily asthetic thing, and the seedy mo does help!

[Swanner]

thanks liz

For any veteran, part of their salary sits outside the cap. If a club has one or two, half of each player's salary is outsdie the cap. If a club has more, the proportion decreases - eg to a third of each player if there are three veterans - so the maximum total benefit for a club can't exceed more than the equivalent of one player.

If a club elects for one or two veterans to be "outside" that means the club can have more senior players. The standard senior player list is 38 players. With two outside veterans it can be as high as 40 players, but there is a reduction in the number of rookies that club can have.

For a club who doesn't have any outside veterans, it can nominate up to two rookies (or one rookie if they have one outside veteran) who are available to play senior footy regardless of injuries to senior listed players. So effectively, evey club can start the season with access to 40 players who can play senior footy without relying on long term injury.

For a club in the Swans' situation, which has some flexibility given we had no outside veterans last year but Goodes, Jude (and, I think, ROK) eligible, it comes down to how many rookies versus senior players they want, where they think they need to draft them to get access to the players they want, and maybe some salary cap considerations too. If they are weighing up using pick 73 versus filling that spot via the rookie draft, they'll probably consider earlier access in the National Draft versus longer to look at marginal players for the rookie draft, and possibly being able to have candidates training with them pre-rookie draft to get a better idea of their capabilities. Also, a rookie only has to be given a one year contract initially whereas a player taken in the ND gets two years, so you can cut your losses sooner with a rookie if you want.

[swans song]

I get the impression these blokes - Vesz, Ed and MOD - gave up towards the end of the season given their lackluster reserves performances towards the end. Probably no surprise to them they are gone and we know in Vesz's case, he just wanted a change.

For these and a lot of our past delistings these players were doomed. to keep momentum with bus trips to play in a sub standard league what hope did/have our reserves got of impressing selectors? Even Roo's has been quoted that there is no point in dropping under performing senior players to reserves instead we will play them in seniors and back into form.
Until we have a better system for our younger players we are doomed.
Do you think GWS will have a reserve team playing in Canberra.
Good on Faulks & Philips I hope they succeed

[ShockOfHair]

For these and a lot of our past delistings these players were doomed. to keep momentum with bus trips to play in a sub standard league what hope did/have our reserves got of impressing selectors?

Playing in the twos didn't seem to hurt Smith, Rohan, Reid, Jetta, Pyke, to name a few off the top.

Remember other AFL teams envy our seconds setup because we get to manage and develop them 100% of the time and not leave them in the hands of SANFL/VFL/WAFL teams.

[goswannie14]

Playing in the twos didn't seem to hurt Smith, Rohan, Reid, Jetta, Pyke, to name a few off the top.

Remember other AFL teams envy our seconds setup because we get to manage and develop them 100% of the time and not leave them in the hands of SANFL/VFL/WAFL teams.

That may be true for some AFL clubs, but not the likes of Collingwood and Geelong who have their own teams in the VFL.

Although I take yoiur point, there must be something to be said for having a team 100% managed by the senior AFL club, as these two clubs have won three of the last four AFL premierships.

[Primmy]

Another point to add to this discussion is that the toppies and the scholars come to us, and train with us. We get to see what could be available at the local level, the locals (OK, spread throughout a lot of the state....) get to see just how much is involved in AFL, and they then work with the AFL coaches themselves. I would describe that as a winner all round. Some of the toppies this year have been good, really good. One in particular was called back many times (Keiran Emery) and another I would like to see be given a call up (Gene Kruger).

[i'm-uninformed2]

I recently sat next to Kevin Sheedy at a lunch. Among a few things, I asked about this and he had a very simple point - we have had such a strong run of success, cultivated plenty of players off the rookie list and seem to keep finding new young talent, that playing in the Canberra League can't be too much of a problem.

His instinct was the point made above - we have total control of them, so they are groomed precisely as we wish.

Oh - and he also said, young Mitchell will prove to be one of the great steals of all time. His words: "He's not just the best 16yo in the country now, he's the best 16yo I've seen in years."

[swans song]

Playing in the twos didn't seem to hurt Smith, Rohan, Reid, Jetta, Pyke, to name a few off the top.

Remember other AFL teams envy our seconds setup because we get to manage and develop them 100% of the time and not leave them in the hands of SANFL/VFL/WAFL teams.

Smith played maybe 40 games
Rohan 10
reid ?
Jetta 5
Pyke 20 and would still be there had Seaby not been injured

What about the players that have buried there having played 60-80 games

[satchmopugdog]

Oh - and he also said, young Mitchell will prove to be one of the great steals of all time. His words: "He's not just the best 16yo in the country now, he's the best 16yo I've seen in years."

That's what I like to hear..so even if others bid for him he is worth a first round pick. At last some of those cards are falling our way. Thanks Kevin.

[Mr Magoo]

Smith played maybe 40 games
Rohan 10
reid ?
Jetta 5
Pyke 20 and would still be there had Seaby not been injured

What about the players that have buried there having played 60-80 games

Any player that plays 60-80 games in reserves , is clearly just not showing that they are are good enough to play firsts. Name one player that has been buried in the reserves and after that has gone on to have a successful AFL career. Simply if they cant show more than above average ability in the canberra league they arent going to make it in the AFL.

Guys like Vez were not the victim of some sort of campaign against them , they were the victims of themselves in thinking that talent alone could get you regular games at AFL level. Hopefully a change of club will see a change of attiitude.

[707]

Rookie Ranga Ediriwickrama has been cut from Geelong. I beieve he is a Sydney boy who was a highly rated junior but has been plagued by injury in his two years at Geelong. What does anyone know of him - any chance we'll give him a try?

Hawthorn have just had a massive list trim including a few players that would appear to have talent but just haven't go it together at the Hawks. Reckon a handful of them might be tried by other clubs, maybe even us after our success with Hawks "fringe" players Kennedy and McGlynn!

[royboy42]

Any player that plays 60-80 games in reserves , is clearly just not showing that they are are good enough to play firsts. Name one player that has been buried in the reserves and after that has gone on to have a successful AFL career. Simply if they cant show more than above average ability in the canberra league they arent going to make it in the AFL.

Guys like Vez were not the victim of some sort of campaign against them , they were the victims of themselves in thinking that talent alone could get you regular games at AFL level. Hopefully a change of club will see a change of attiitude.

I have a feeling that Dipper played 99 or so in the dewkickers before he got a start!