Tippett!!

[kilroy]

Yeah i think he is done. I hope I am wrong.

I cant believe this time last week i actually though about Tippett getting injured vs GWS and how much that could derail our whole season and then it happened. I recall thinking the same back in '13 when we played Port in the rain and Goodes injured himself. Because i have a habit of asking myself hypotheticals ( I am bruce, dont you think?) i asked myself "Imagine if Goodsey injures his knee again and we dont see him play again" and then pow 5 mins later he injured himself.

[Mel_C]

Yeah i think he is done. I hope I am wrong.

I cant believe this time last week i actually though about Tippett getting injured vs GWS and how much that could derail our whole season and then it happened. I recall thinking the same back in '13 when we played Port in the rain and Goodes injured himself. Because i have a habit of asking myself hypotheticals ( I am bruce, dont you think?) i asked myself "Imagine if Goodsey injures his knee again and we dont see him play again" and then pow 5 mins later he injured himself.

No more thinking about injuries allowed!!!

[Faunac8]

AFL 2016: Sydney Swans star Kurt Tippett finds his groove

He's even being noticed by the media.

Typical of the media they give him a wrap and he suffers an injury .
It's a Victorian conspiracy I tell you

[Untamed Snark]

No more thinking about injuries allowed!!!

I second the motion

[Kumarangk]

I reckon we wont see him again this year.
So many times you here someone has a 3 week injury that turns into 6 then the 6 week turns into 8 so an 8 week injury I reckon is season ending.
I hope I am wrong.

What medical evidence do you base this On ?

You are obviously a glass half full person !

[ScottH]

What medical evidence do you base this On ?

You are obviously a glass half full person !

It's more reality than glass half full.
I monitored the injury list on here for a few years and what chuckie says tends be be right.
They seem to always give us the best possible outcome for an injury, which does not always should true.
Then there are the unforeseen set backs that some players get when trying to return from injury.

As much as I hope chuckie is full of horse poo, I wouldn't be surprised either if we don't see him again this year.

[goswannies]

What medical evidence do you base this On ?

You are obviously a glass half full person !

I think the saying would have chuckie as a glass half empty person (pessimist). A optimist would see the same glass as half full.

[kilroy]

Lets hope bambi is a fast healer, we are going to really miss him in the next few weeks.

[chalbilto]

Hi Goswannies I was wondering in your humble opinion what do you make of Tippett's injury, treatment and the anticipated recovery time?

[goswannies]

Hi Goswannies I was wondering in your humble opinion what do you make of Tippett's injury, treatment and the anticipated recovery time?

Ok. It's impossible to really comment, as every article I've found is very vague about the nature of the injury and surgery.
Generalising, however, surgery can stabilise structures more effectively initially than conservative treatment. However, it still takes time for the fixated/repaired soft tissue to heal (hence the expected extra couple of weeks predicted). Physiologically, tissue heals at its own rate and generally can't be expedited. 6-8 weeks is a common time period that will be cited. There is also a psychological element. Some players are pretty right to go as soon as they are given the ok. Nick Malceski & Goodsey are good examples. Others take time to regain confidence. Others still, just heal slowly and need a little extra time to prevent re-injury/further injury (Heath James, Sam Reid come to mind).
If you can find an article that details what actually happened and how they are fixing it, I'd have a better idea, I suspect.
The one big advantage that Tippett has is that he can focus 100% on rehab. Nor is his rehab restricted at all by financial/health fund constraints or rehab team limitations. This is a big plus compared with the general public. The other big advantage of surgical management is the anticipated long-term more favourable prognosis (either as a player and/or post-retirement).

[Ludwig]

I posted a link to this abstract in another thread. Although the sample group is small, it gives you some idea why surgery was the preferred treatment. The 8 week recovery period looks to be a reasonable estimate, but as Goswannies says, every case is different.


Distal semitendinosus ruptures in elite-level athletes: low success rates of nonoperative treatment.

Cooper DE1, Conway JE.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

No case series of isolated complete rupture of the distal semitendinosus tendon have been reported previously.
PURPOSE:

This study was undertaken to increase awareness and report the authors' treatment experience, particularly the less than favorable results of nonoperative initial treatment.
STUDY DESIGN:

Case series; Level of evidence, 4.
METHODS:

The authors identified 25 cases of distal semitendinosus tendon rupture over a 14-year period (1991-2005). All players were male professional (20), collegiate (4), or high-level amateur (1) athletes. Follow-up of 17 cases averaged 13 months (range, 4-55), and 8 patients were lost to follow-up. Eight Major League Baseball, 8 National Football League, and 1 National Hockey League athletes were included in this study. Early treatment experience always involved nonoperative treatment, including rest, modalities, and rehabilitation exercises, followed by functional progression. "Recovery" was defined by clinical criteria including clearance to return to play. Failure to improve with nonoperative treatment, and thus requiring surgical treatment, was deemed a failure of nonoperative treatment. There were 12 players who had initial nonoperative treatment. The authors had later experience with 5 players who had surgery early in the acute phase in hopes of speeding return to competition.
RESULTS:

In the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.
CONCLUSION:

Distal semitendinosus ruptures frequently (42%) do not recover after nonoperative treatment. Acute surgical resection of the completely ruptured semitendinosus tendon may speed recovery when the athlete has a tender mass and difficulty extending the knee fully in the stance phase of gate. Future investigation is warranted to compare the long-term outcome of nonoperative treatment with that after acute surgery.

[goswannies]

I'd like to know the degree (of tear v's rupture) sustained by Tippett, as this impacts on the management technique of choice.
Studies usually have very specific selection criteria and are well controlled regarding management strategies. If either the injury sustained by Kurt or the surgical technique undertaken in Melbourne differ from those reported by Cooper and Conway (2010), then extrapolation to Kurt's circumstance is fraught with uncertainty,
The study you posted does indeed have a small sample size (however, where a statistical significance is detected, this is probably less of an issue - usually researchers are concerned with having a big enough sample size to detect a significant difference where one exists). Of greater concern would be the controlled variables. It is a retrospective study (a far weaker design than prospective, randomised controlled trials). By their very nature, it is difficult to control factors that have already transpired.
The other thing is by citing this article to extrapolate to Tippett's circumstance, you are assuming Kurt has sustained a complete rupture of of his semitendonousus distal attachment (that is what all subjects of the study you cited had sustained). I cannot refute this, nor can I confirm it, as I cannot find any reports that this has occurred. Another factor that the article that you cite fails to address is that it may, in fact, be trauma to the distal portion of the muscle itself, rather than the tendon or musculo-tendonous junction. In the case of a severe muscle strain, conservative management is more common although some studies (such as Lempainen et al 2007 Br J Sp Med) advocate surgical management in some cases (not all, mind you). In this circumstance the club could easily have proposed conservative management but then considered the benefits of surgical intervention (which is, incidentally, the sequence of events as has been reported in the media).
The fact of the matter is, you can cite any number of papers, but unless they deal with the same injury that Kurt has, they are somewhat meaningless. The club did report, on June 13th, that scans revealed a tear of the hamstring tendon. If this is a partial tear or a musculo-tendonous trauma, conservative management could certainly be a viable option, however, surgical management could also be considered and could potentially be less complex than for a complete tendon rupture. A degree of repair or potential augmentation might be indicated to facilitate healing/recovery for an athlete wishing to expedite their return.

[AnnieH]

Did Tipoff get injured?
Noooooooooooooooooo.

*Insert big sigh.

[aardvark]

Did Tipoff get injured?
Noooooooooooooooooo.

*Insert big sigh.

He only does it to keep this thread going......

- - - Updated - - -

I'd like to know the degree (of tear v's rupture) sustained by Tippett, as this impacts on the management technique of choice.
Studies usually have very specific selection criteria and are well controlled regarding management strategies. If either the injury sustained by Kurt or the surgical technique undertaken in Melbourne differ from those reported by Cooper and Conway (2010), then extrapolation to Kurt's circumstance is fraught with uncertainty,
The study you posted does indeed have a small sample size (however, where a statistical significance is detected, this is probably less of an issue - usually researchers are concerned with having a big enough sample size to detect a significant difference where one exists). Of greater concern would be the controlled variables. It is a retrospective study (a far weaker design than prospective, randomised controlled trials). By their very nature, it is difficult to control factors that have already transpired.
The other thing is by citing this article to extrapolate to Tippett's circumstance, you are assuming Kurt has sustained a complete rupture of of his semitendonousus distal attachment (that is what all subjects of the study you cited had sustained). I cannot refute this, nor can I confirm it, as I cannot find any reports that this has occurred. Another factor that the article that you cite fails to address is that it may, in fact, be trauma to the distal portion of the muscle itself, rather than the tendon or musculo-tendonous junction. In the case of a severe muscle strain, conservative management is more common although some studies (such as Lempainen et al 2007 Br J Sp Med) advocate surgical management in some cases (not all, mind you). In this circumstance the club could easily have proposed conservative management but then considered the benefits of surgical intervention (which is, incidentally, the sequence of events as has been reported in the media).
The fact of the matter is, you can cite any number of papers, but unless they deal with the same injury that Kurt has, they are somewhat meaningless. The club did report, on June 13th, that scans revealed a tear of the hamstring tendon. If this is a partial tear or a musculo-tendonous trauma, conservative management could certainly be a viable option, however, surgical management could also be considered and could potentially be less complex than for a complete tendon rupture. A degree of repair or potential augmentation might be indicated to facilitate healing/recovery for an athlete wishing to expedite their return.

Did anyone else read this and understand it? If you're not sure Tippo has a sore leg.

[ScottH]

Did anyone else read this and understand it? If you're not sure Tippo has a sore leg.

Thanks for the summary!!!