Mitchell vs Lloyd and others

[mcs]

I think the by-product of having a successful on-field club with very few injuries is that there are many worthy footballers who don?t get a game.
Some footballers don?t fit the systems of certain clubs. Tom D and Laidler were delisted from average mid-table clubs, only to become regular senior footballers in a contenting top 4 club.

Membrey may not fit our system as we have an abundance of key forward options (Franklin, Tippett, Goodes, Reid, LRT, Tom Walsh and Mike Pyke). He may be valuable to another club who need a consistent deep Goal-Kicking option. The challenge for the Swans is to try and extract some value for him at the trade table, which will be difficult as he may not have played a first team game.

Another player who may be in danger of leaving in my opinion is Tom Mitchell. Although under contract, he is the sort of guy who desires a lot of first team football. He is not getting first team football at the moment and looks to have been overtaken in the pecking order by Jake Lloyd. He would look at the ages of the key midfielders (Kennedy, Bird, K.Jack, Parker, McKvigh, Hannas, Jetta, McGlynn) and realise that none of them are within two seasons of retirement. The only midfielder to go is ROK, but he had already been replaced in the senior team. Short of guys getting injured how is Tom Mitchell going to get a game? Guys like Cunningham and B.Jack are now getting selected ahead of him due their pace.

He like Membrey may need a change of environment to achieve his potential.

I'd be exceptionally surprised and shocked if Mitchell was allowed to go. He will be an integral part of our midfield going forward, he is just going through a lean patch at this stage, and finding it hard to fit in the top 22. He will get back in soon though - you don't invest the amount the Swans have invested in him just to let him go because he has to wait his turn.

[Matt80]

I'd be exceptionally surprised and shocked if Mitchell was allowed to go. He will be an integral part of our midfield going forward, he is just going through a lean patch at this stage, and finding it hard to fit in the top 22. He will get back in soon though - you don't invest the amount the Swans have invested in him just to let him go because he has to wait his turn.

I believe he is under contract next year so ithe Swans will keep him if they desire and he wants to stay.

What will happen to Mitchell is Rohan gets going, Jake Lloyd continues to rapidly develop, Lloyd Perris starts coming on in a big way, and there are no serious injuries to the midfield group?

Mitchell is too good for NAFL Football. It may be that another club gets to the trade table and offers us something good for him (1st Round pick) and we are smart to take it.

[jono2707]

I believe he is under contract next year so ithe Swans will keep him if they desire and he wants to stay.

What will happen to Mitchell is Rohan gets going, Jake Lloyd continues to rapidly develop, Lloyd Perris starts coming on in a big way, and there are no serious injuries to the midfield group?

Mitchell is too good for NAFL Football. It may be that another club gets to the trade table and offers us something good for him (1st Round pick) and we are smart to take it.

Matt I think you're speculating a little too wildly on this one. I think Tom M will be front and centre in this club's future plans and he is good enough to knock most midfielders out of this team when he's up and going. Remember he is young and has had injury concerns - I'm sure he's as aware as the club is to carefully manage his workload and match time whilst he's still young.

I do agree with your earlier point that Membrey has the potential to be a similar player to Crameri. I think if he can bide his time and build his fitness he can force his way into the team. Maybe not this year although I think we should try to get a little experience into him at some stage for a game or two. I'm a fan of his.

[liz]

The only reason Mitchell is not in the senior team is that he has had an ankle issue that has prevented him training and thus keeping his fitness at top level. As soon as the coaches think his fitness is back where it needs to be, he'll be back in the senior team, probably at the expense of Lloyd. Lloyd has shown a bit in his outings so far but I don't think there is any way he can be seen to have moved ahead of Mitchell.

[churry]

Mitchell is in our best 22 when he is fit and playing well like we know he can. I would be pretty shocked if he gets moved on.

I think Membrey has a lot of potential and I doubt he is going anywhere unless he wants to move. He must be closer than others to a potential seniors debut in comparison to other 2nd and 3rd year players.

[Ludwig]

The only reason Mitchell is not in the senior team is that he has had an ankle issue that has prevented him training and thus keeping his fitness at top level. As soon as the coaches think his fitness is back where it needs to be, he'll be back in the senior team, probably at the expense of Lloyd. Lloyd has shown a bit in his outings so far but I don't think there is any way he can be seen to have moved ahead of Mitchell.

I don't think it is all that clear that Mitchell is ahead of Lloyd. Mitchell is best as an inside midfielder with his contested ball winning ability and good hands. But Lloyd is more versatile, a more accurate kick and quick on his feet. Mitchell is often indecisive after taking a mark. Our midfield is packed with young inside players, with some that offer good outside spread, so Tom may not have quite so many strings in his bow at the moment.

It's true that Tom has had his injury concerns, which has held back his progress, and we certainly haven't seen the best in him. As we move forward, there will be a number of young players vying for spots in the midfield. I think Hewitt and Jones will give Mitchell a run for his money. Both have more pace than Tom. Robinson may give it go as well. Then we have Heeney and Dunkley on the horizon. So as good as Tom as is or can be, a spot for him in the side is far from assured. I agree with Matt80 that he could be worth something in a trade that could land us another key defender, which we are more in need of than midfileders. I don't think the balance of players we have on our list is working in his favour.

I think Rohan is more likely to get in the side ahead of Mitchell atm, and with the number of Emergency listings Towers has had, it seems we are looking to give him a shot in the seniors at some time in the near future. Tom's lack of pace and accurate goal kicking also works against him for getting the sub role, which we tend to give to speedy goal scorers.

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After looking at the highlights reel of the reserves game, you have to be impressed by Membrey's goal kicking prowess. He seems to move well, and he's always been known for his strong marking. If he can get the defensive side of his game worked out to the satisfaction of the coaches, there should certainly be a spot for him in the side in due course. It's all about putting points on the board, and this kid seems to know how to do it.

[Matt80]

The only reason Mitchell is not in the senior team is that he has had an ankle issue that has prevented him training and thus keeping his fitness at top level. As soon as the coaches think his fitness is back where it needs to be, he'll be back in the senior team, probably at the expense of Lloyd. Lloyd has shown a bit in his outings so far but I don't think there is any way he can be seen to have moved ahead of Mitchell.

Kennedy, K.Jack, McVeigh, Hannanbery, Parker, McGlynn, Bird and Jetta are the first choice midfielders and are not going anywhere in the near future. Can Mitchell emerge ahead of any of the above guys in the next two years? He will have to get ahead of a couple of these guys if he wants a regular game. He is not a damaging forward type like a Parker or McGlynn and this further limits him.

Jake Lloyd, Cunningham, Brandon Jack and Garry Rohan are probably rated ahead of Mitchell for the small forward roles.

[liz]

I don't think it is all that clear that Mitchell is ahead of Lloyd.

We will need to agree to disagree.

[RogueSwan]

We will need to agree to disagree.

I agree that Liz' should agree to disagree.
14 games at almost 20 possessions per game for Tom's first season, that kid has got plenty of upside. Look at Hanners, he isn't the fastest on the team, but when he is on he just keeps running. TM could build the same tank as Hanners, he just has to have a couple of preseasons without injury interuption.

[Ludwig]

I agree that Liz' should agree to disagree.
14 games at almost 20 possessions per game for Tom's first season, that kid has got plenty of upside. Look at Hanners, he isn't the fastest on the team, but when he is on he just keeps running. TM could build the same tank as Hanners, he just has to have a couple of preseasons without injury interuption.

First, I didn't say Lloyd was better than Mitchell, only that the jury is still out. Mitchell is good, and has a good tank as well. Hanners spread when he gets the ball is perhaps his best weapon; he's really good moving out of traffic. It would be great if Tom could do the same.

Lloyd has starred at NEAFL level, and has had a good start in the seniors. Only time will tell if he can grow with more experience.

Mitchell came to the team with a lot of hoopla. Lloyd was a low-key rookie listed and a virtual unknown.

What I find in Lloyd's favour is that he's a well balanced good all-around player. I think of him as a young McVeigh. Mitchell is like a Tony Libertore, which is saying a lot. But we have and will draft in the next couple of years a number of top end inside midfielders, so we will have a lot more of Tom's type of player than Lloyd's type. On this basis, it is not clear to me who is more valuable to the team. Neither has played all that many games. Hopefully both will go on to have great careers.

[Melbournehammer]

First, I didn't say Lloyd was better than Mitchell, only that the jury is still out. Mitchell is good, and has a good tank as well. Hanners spread when he gets the ball is perhaps his best weapon; he's really good moving out of traffic. It would be great if Tom could do the same.

Lloyd has starred at NEAFL level, and has had a good start in the seniors. Only time will tell if he can grow with more experience.

Mitchell came to the team with a lot of hoopla. Lloyd was a low-key rookie listed and a virtual unknown.

What I find in Lloyd's favour is that he's a well balanced good all-around player. I think of him as a young McVeigh. Mitchell is like a Tony Libertore, which is saying a lot. But we have and will draft in the next couple of years a number of top end inside midfielders, so we will have a lot more of Tom's type of player than Lloyd's type. On this basis, it is not clear to me who is more valuable to the team. Neither has played all that many games. Hopefully both will go on to have great careers.

I haven't seen a lot of lloyd or mitchell as I have only seen their games in the ones. But I do tend to ludwig's views. Mitchell's kicking needs a lot of work. His hands are great and he clearly has a massive upside. But he is slow and his disposal by foot is not massively threatening to date. In forward fifty stoppages he provides a good goalkicking threat but on the run i have the feel of adam schneider about him - that he is a fifty fifty proposition.

I hope he turns out to be a star for us. And hopefully he proves me wrong. But lloyd is clearly doing a good job currently in space, space that mitchell probably wouldnt get into

ps the depressing thing is that a couple of uninjured pre seasons appears to be something that is very hard for this kid - and kid he is - he hasnt had much luck with injuries to date. i hope that changes as much as anything.

[jono2707]

Young kids that can do the inside work as well as Mitchell does do not come along very often. We are fortunate we got him F/S as he would have been a very high draft pick otherwise. He will have an outstanding career as an inside mid and we would be crazy to even entertain the thought of letting him go.

[liz]

If there was a mid-season trading period and the Swans put both Mitchell and Lloyd on the open market, inviting clubs to make trade offers for both, who do you think would attract more offers and at what price?

People seem to forget that Mitchell attracted a fair few votes in last seasons' RS award, despite only playing half the season. He was also the subject of a bid from GWS to persuade him to forgo his FS options and commit to join them as one of their top 3 draft picks in their first season.

Lloyd has had a very consistent season in the NEAFL and deserves the opportunity he has got. However, at senior level, he's had one pretty decent performance thus far (and a couple of cameos), and that was against Brisbane, sitting on the bottom of the ladder. You cannot automatically take NEAFL form and assume a player can carry this forward to senior level. Even allowing for the improvement in the quality of the NEAFL competition over recent years (especially the fact our reserves play against other AFL reserves sides), we have had umpteen players over the last decade who have been super over a number of seasons at reserves level but have never made it at senior level. Lloyd still has it all to prove. Mitchell's not exactly an established star yet either at senior level but he has far more runs on the board.

[Plugger46]

Mitchell has a couple of weaknesses he needs to work on but Lloyd ahead of him? Some short memories. Lloyd beating up on an injury depleted Lions, plus a few cameos as sub doesn't come close to where Mitchell is at. That's no knock on Lloyd, it's just that Mitchell is exceptional in a number of areas for a 20yo.

[Ludwig]

We've never a lost a game when Lloyd has played.