List changes and trade bait

[liz]

There are a multitude of factors that determine someone's leadership propensity / ability. If a pre-requisite of being a good leader was that you'd had to battle for your career early on, how do we explain the fact that some of the currently most admired captains in the AFL include Luke Hodge, Joel Selwood, Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Riewoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Travis Boak etc etc. All were top 10 draft picks in their time.

[Conor_Dillon]

There are a multitude of factors that determine someone's leadership propensity / ability. If a pre-requisite of being a good leader was that you'd had to battle for your career early on, how do we explain the fact that some of the currently most admired captains in the AFL include Luke Hodge, Joel Selwood, Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Riewoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Travis Boak etc etc. All were top 10 draft picks in their time.

Exactly...I'm sure part of the reason those guys were top 10 picks is because they were born leaders, which in turn improves their footballing ability and therefore made them more attractive to recruiters.

[Matt80]

There are a multitude of factors that determine someone's leadership propensity / ability. If a pre-requisite of being a good leader was that you'd had to battle for your career early on, how do we explain the fact that some of the currently most admired captains in the AFL include Luke Hodge, Joel Selwood, Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Riewoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Travis Boak etc etc. All were top 10 draft picks in their time.

Jarrad McVeigh despite being a top five draft pick was a disappointment in his first three years of the club. No senior football in 2003, some in 2004 and was not part of the Premiership side in 2005.

He was told some brutal home truths at the end of 2005 and became a better player from that point on. He is only really fulfilling his promise as a top 5 pick now.

Going from a disappointment to the player we now recognise took resilience, toil and good long hard look in the mirror.

Pavlich, Reiwalt and Hodge have only ever had to look in the mirror to make sure their hair is sitting how it should.

[liz]

Jarrad McVeigh despite being a top five draft pick was a disappointment in his first three years of the club. No senior football in 2003, some in 2004 and was not part of the Premiership side in 2005.

He was told some brutal home truths at the end of 2005 and became a better player from that point on. He is only really fulfilling his promise as a top 5 pick now.

Going from a disappointment to the player we now recognise took resilience, toil and good long hard look in the mirror.

Pavlich, Reiwalt and Hodge have only ever had to look in the mirror to make sure their hair is sitting how it should.

LOL. Keep making up "facts" to suit your spin. He was a young 17 year old when he joined the club. Just because he took a normal length of time to develop into a regular senior player doesn't mean he was "a disappointment" in his first three years. At least, not to the people whose opinion matters. He was at a club playing (and winning) grand finals, not a club that gifted games to young players. To say he is only now fulfilling his promise as a top 5 pick doesn't sit comfortably alongside him winning a BS medal in 2008.

However, if it is your view that a top 5 pick taking a few years to settle into senior football and not being guaranteed a walk-up star in a good team represents "a disappointment", maybe you should factor that into your touting of Heeney, Mills and Dunkley as key members of our midfield in the next two years, certain to the extent we can discard a young player who, due to injuries, is only currently our 23rd best player on the list but who was recognised by the industry as top 5 in the RS award last year, despite playing just half a season.

[sprite]

Jarrad McVeigh despite being a top five draft pick was a disappointment in his first three years of the club. No senior football in 2003, some in 2004 and was not part of the Premiership side in 2005.

He was told some brutal home truths at the end of 2005 and became a better player from that point on. He is only really fulfilling his promise as a top 5 pick now.

Going from a disappointment to the player we now recognise took resilience, toil and good long hard look in the mirror.

Pavlich, Reiwalt and Hodge have only ever had to look in the mirror to make sure their hair is sitting how it should.

Matt, are being sarcastic, condescending or what? Up to the last line it was a pretty good response.

Those three you mention have worked hard to get the reward of captain, yes they were high draft picks and had a heap of talent that takes you part of the way.

They have all earned the respect of their playing group through hard work and on field efforts.

Nick Riewoldt ( please check your spelling after all it is in the body of the email) has shown his leadership numerous time in getting the hard ball, offering the lead taking contested marks. A worthy leader. He has also demonstrated integrity by staying with the Saints when he could have easily gone to a more successful club.
Luke Hodge - is fearless just like Paul Kelly, he has also earned the respect of team mates, I would have loved to have him in red and White.
Matty Pavlich - has stayed at a struggling club that needed strong leadership like Nick, and developed into a fine leader he has/had a touch of Jonathan Brown about him. He has shown courage and determination on field numerous times often against us.

Probably early on they may were given the "talk", I'm pretty sure most young players get it at some stage of their careers it what you take out of it that makes the difference.

Each of these guys probably look into that mirror often, to ensure that they are meeting not only their high standards, the clubs expectations and helping the playing group to meet them as well.

I would love to have any of them in the Red and White.

End of rant

[mcs]

However, if it is your view that a top 5 pick taking a few years to settle into senior football and not being guaranteed a walk-up star in a good team represents "a disappointment", maybe you should factor that into your touting of Heeney, Mills and Dunkley as key members of our midfield in the next two years, certain to the extent we can discard a young player who, due to injuries, is only currently our 23rd best player on the list but who was recognised by the industry as top 5 in the RS award last year, despite playing just half a season.

+1 to this - this is exactly the point I've been trying to make ad nauseum, but with little of the eloquence of Liz!

[Matt80]

What about top five picks Luke Ball, Luke Hodge, Chris Judd, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Joel Selwood (7) and Marcus Bontepelli. There first three years were certainly a lot more fruitful than McVeighs. You expect a good player in the top five. It's like buying property at Dover Heights. You don't expect the property to fall into the sea or be belted with bullets.

I don't make up facts, I just interpret them differently. I actually remember it being said that McVeigh picked himself up for the 2006 season after a "leading teams special". It may have been Paul Roos on the couch who said it.

Did you see Heeney's goal on the run from outside 50m on the run?
He looms as the danger man for the Aspley team.

I admire Pavlich, Riewoldt and Hodge. They have worked extremely hard. I was making reference to the fact that they have never been on the outer.

I'm not discarding that young players career. I believe strongly that his long term career lies with a team that needs a pure inside midfielder. We have too many of his type of player at the moment. Maybe I deserve some credit for being selfless and not being content to see him spending a lot of time in the NEAFL over the next two seasons. Most of the Red and White community think it's perfectly acceptable for that young player to spend time in the NEAFL, waiting for Parker, Mitchell and Bird to get injured. I'm standing up and saying this is not right!

[Matt80]

What about top five picks Luke Ball, Luke Hodge, Chris Judd, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Joel Selwood (7) and Marcus Bontepelli. There first three years were certainly a lot more fruitful than McVeighs. You expect a good player in the top five. It's like buying property at Dover Heights. You don't expect the property to fall into the sea or be belted with bullets.

I don't make up facts, I just interpret them differently. I actually remember it being said that McVeigh picked himself up for the 2006 season after a "leading teams special". It may have been Paul Roos on the couch who said it.

Did you see Heeney's goal on the run from outside 50m on the run?
He looms as the danger man for the Aspley team.

I admire Pavlich, Riewoldt and Hodge. They have worked extremely hard. I was making reference to the fact that they have never been on the outer.

I'm not discarding that young players career. I believe strongly that his long term career lies with a team that needs a pure inside midfielder. We have too many of his type of player at the moment. Maybe I deserve some credit for being selfless and not being content to see him spending a lot of time in the NEAFL over the next two seasons. Most of the Red and White community think it's perfectly acceptable for that young player to spend time in the NEAFL, waiting for Parker, Kennedy and Bird to get injured. I'm standing up and saying this is not right!

Sorry. I meant Kennedy.

[Jewels]

LOL. Keep making up "facts" to suit your spin. He was a young 17 year old when he joined the club. Just because he took a normal length of time to develop into a regular senior player doesn't mean he was "a disappointment" in his first three years. At least, not to the people whose opinion matters. He was at a club playing (and winning) grand finals, not a club that gifted games to young players. To say he is only now fulfilling his promise as a top 5 pick doesn't sit comfortably alongside him winning a BS medal in 2008.

However, if it is your view that a top 5 pick taking a few years to settle into senior football and not being guaranteed a walk-up star in a good team represents "a disappointment", maybe you should factor that into your touting of Heeney, Mills and Dunkley as key members of our midfield in the next two years, certain to the extent we can discard a young player who, due to injuries, is only currently our 23rd best player on the list but who was recognised by the industry as top 5 in the RS award last year, despite playing just half a season.

Brilliant post and response Liz. Most of your posts are wonderfully truth based and always eloquently and succinctly phrased but this is your best one ever!

[Matt80]

Brilliant post and response Liz. Most of your posts are wonderfully truth based and always eloquently and succinctly phrased but this is your best one ever!

At least I made Liz laugh!

[Steve]

Matt80, for someone who puts out so many theories, your analysis really doesn't run very deep.

We made a Prelim and won a premiership within McVeigh's first 3 "disappointing" years, so unlike most top-5 picks, he came onto a fairly decent list. Of the players you listed, only Selwood came straight into a top-4 side, and being a very different style of player allowed that.

The 2002 draft was a fairly weak one as well, so the label of '#5 pick' really doesn't mean anything in comparison to other players or drafts.

The club has a pretty good record at bringing in players at the right time, which includes allowing players to develop (or get past injuries) in the reserves.

[Bloods05]

Matt, a word to the wise. When Liz gives you a slap, it's time to pull your head in. Who knows, if you take it with humility, put in some toil and take a good long hard look in the mirror, you might just realise your dream of becoming a football pundit. Yes, I know there's a long, long way to go and it will take a lot of resilience and hard yakka, but if Kochie could do it, you can too.

[Ludwig]

At least I made Liz laugh!

I can say for sure that you really crack me up. You should have your own show, Matt. Trying to imagine what's going through your head is a real challenge.

Matt's World

[Flying South]

However, if it is your view that a top 5 pick taking a few years to settle into senior football and not being guaranteed a walk-up star in a good team represents "a disappointment", maybe you should factor that into your touting of Heeney, Mills and Dunkley as key members of our midfield in the next two years, certain to the extent we can discard a young player who, due to injuries, is only currently our 23rd best player on the list but who was recognised by the industry as top 5 in the RS award last year, despite playing just half a season.

PERFECT!!! Post of the year.

[Dosser]

The whispers are gathering momentum. Goodes will finish and Ryder to Swans.