2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

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  • DamY
    Senior Player
    • Sep 2011
    • 1479

    Originally posted by Meg
    Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon's views:
    www.smh.com.au - Academies must benefit all clubs, say Bulldogs
    Ugh. If it should benefit all clubs, then all clubs can put their money in. To be fair, Bulldogs money is basically "all clubs" money anyways so they wouldn't really be paying anything at all. Doggies should be more concerned about how the Magpies are hoarding revenue and taxes rather than what the Swans are doing.

    Comment

    • Nico
      Veterans List
      • Jan 2003
      • 11339


      Originally posted by Meg
      Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon's views:
      www.smh.com.au - Academies must benefit all clubs, say Bulldogs

      Did he have his head up his backside when he said that. I didn't understand a word he said. How hypocritical of the flog. How many times has the AFL bailed the Doggies out? I suspect it is an ongoing project. Maybe it is time the AFL said stand on your own feet from now on or fold.

      He talks about purity. What about purity in the fixture.
      http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

      Comment

      • Ludwig
        Veterans List
        • Apr 2007
        • 9359

        If there were no Sydney Swans, that is, only the other 3 northern clubs had academies, there wouldn't be an issue. It would be business as usual. The problem is specifically one related to the Swans. The Swans Academy is considerably advanced, including financing, as compared to the other clubs. The AFL encouraged the academies and raised no objection to the Swans investing sizeable resources into their academy. Now suddenly, we have both a successful club on-field along with an academy that's producing some top notch players. Basically, the Swans academy is producing the kind of results the league wanted when they set up academy rules.

        So you would think everyone would be cheering. But no. If Heeney went GWS or Brisbane, there wouldn't be a problem. Same as there wouldn't be a problem if Buddy went the Giants. The simple fact is, that the old Victorian establishment are upset that the Swans have managed their recruitment and academy so well that it's actually led to a very successful franchise. No matter that it was all done within the rules that they approved. If it leads to Swans' success, just change the rules.

        If wouldn't be so blatantly discriminatory, the AFL would have a special restricted bidding system just for the Swans and leave the rest alone. A special system for how the Swans access local talent, a special system for how the Swans' access F/S recruits and special restrictions on the Swans' ability to trade. Peter Gordon can talk all he wants about Purity. I think the way the Swans' are treated is Pure Bulls@@t (Bulldogs style in this case).

        Comment

        • Pmcc2911
          Regular in the Side
          • May 2013
          • 516

          "The purity of the draft", what a tosser!

          Comment

          • Doctor
            Bay 29
            • Sep 2003
            • 2757

            Originally posted by Meg
            Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon's views:
            www.smh.com.au - Academies must benefit all clubs, say Bulldogs
            They do. They deepen the talent pool, which therefore benefits all clubs. It's that simple. The academies should mean that the player available at pick 50 is better than what it would have been otherwise.

            Additionally, northern states have suffered via losing players to homesickness for years. One of the side benefits of the academies is that this will be ameliorated.
            Today's a draft of your epitaph

            Comment

            • Meg
              Go Swannies!
              Site Admin
              • Aug 2011
              • 4828

              Leon Cameron talking good common sense.
              'LEON Cameron has called on the AFL to continue with the present bidding system for father-son and academy recruits, saying the proposed changes were a result of people "jumping at shadows".'
              We're jumping at shadows: Cameron on proposed bidding system - AFL.com.au

              Comment

              • JPK12
                Suspended by the MRP
                • Oct 2014
                • 246

                McGuire has enabled Gordon into a false sense of entitlement. He should stfu and learn about respect.

                Comment

                • Meg
                  Go Swannies!
                  Site Admin
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 4828

                  And the Suns want a bigger discount than that given to the other three Academy clubs.
                  "The Suns have broken ranks with the other members of football?s Northern Alliance ? the Lions, Swans and GWS ? arguing they have special needs and need an extra discount."
                  AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan pledges to keep northern academies but changes are still likely

                  Comment

                  • 707
                    Veterans List
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 6204

                    Good, McLachlan has said academies are staying and more importantly that they will continue under the banner of the four clubs, obviously recognising that kids are drawn to the clubs brand and not to the AFL brand.

                    That is a very important development in the discussion.

                    The AFL now need to get the mathematics right to ensure the clubs continue to fund and run the academies. On the metrics we've seen so far, to lose all picks this year and next to get Mills and Dunkley seems too steep.

                    BTW, a nice article in the SEN Inside Footy paper out today chatting to Josh Dunkley. He comes across as so driven and professional but obviously aware of the politics doesn't mention the Swans. He has a younger brother Kyle.

                    Comment

                    • Ludwig
                      Veterans List
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 9359

                      Originally posted by JPK12
                      McGuire has enabled Gordon into a false sense of entitlement. He should stfu and learn about respect.
                      He respects Eddie.


                      Originally posted by Meg
                      And the Suns want a bigger discount than that given to the other three Academy clubs.
                      "The Suns have broken ranks with the other members of football?s Northern Alliance ? the Lions, Swans and GWS ? arguing they have special needs and need an extra discount."
                      Leon Cameron's comments are very much on the mark. Well said from our crosstown cousins (rivals?).

                      I think the Suns have got it wrong. A bigger discount is not going to add more talent to their system. They can get a 100% discount, but if there's no one to draft, what good is it. What Gold Coast need is more financial support from the AFL. A bigger program covering a wider area will be required to make the GC academy a success, and the AFL should realise this. The GC have territories least likely to attract kids interested in AFL. GC are in the worst situation regarding getting access to talent from both the academy and FS selections, so the AFL can compensate for this by allocating say 1 million dollars a year toward making their academy a highly professional and attractive option for young athletes. Some more money for Brisbane would also help the QLD program.

                      Comment

                      • 707
                        Veterans List
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 6204

                        Originally posted by Pmcc2911
                        "The purity of the draft", what a tosser!
                        Purity of the draft is comprimised by Free Agents compo picks. You have earned a pick according to your ladder position then its pushed further out by compo picks given to teams finishing below you. Tankers get pick 3 for Frawley and everyone else's picks are pushed back, Hawthorn taking Frawley nothing.

                        And your further out picks might be pushed out by 6 or 7 if a whole heap of Free Agents change clubs. Free Agency is the biggest non level playing field problem in the AFL, F-S and the academies are a secondary problem to that!

                        Fre agency pushing out picks really hurts those bidding for academy and F-S players because your original picks get diluted in value as the compo picks land.

                        Comment

                        • penga
                          Senior Player
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 2601

                          Am I the only one on here that understands where Gordon is coming from?

                          Take the Geelong Falcons for an example of a talent pool that if the Cats had first crack at would definitely damage the integrity of the draft.. (first round picks and F/S)
                          1994 - Scott Lucas
                          1995 - Matthew Primus
                          1996 - Chris Heffernan
                          1997 - Matthew Scarlett
                          1999 - Jonathan Brown
                          2001 - Gary Ablett Jr, Luke Hodge, Jimmy Bartel
                          2004 - Jordan Lewis
                          2005 - Shaun Higgins
                          2006 - Travis Boak
                          2007 - Patrick Dangerfield
                          2008 - Ayce Cordy
                          2009 - Ben Cunnington, Gary Rohan
                          2010 - Billy Smedts
                          2011 - Taylor Adams

                          With all that talent coming off the production line, Geelong would be unstoppable. While we need to create a greater talent pool in the north eastern states, we need to find a compromise. Gordon is willing to give up the talent that is coming the Dogs way, through father and son, to keep the competition on a level playing field, we need to find a way to do the same.
                          C'mon Chels!

                          Comment

                          • jono2707
                            Goes up to 11
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 3326

                            Originally posted by penga
                            Am I the only one on here that understands where Gordon is coming from?

                            Take the Geelong Falcons for an example of a talent pool that if the Cats had first crack at would definitely damage the integrity of the draft.. (first round picks and F/S)
                            1994 - Scott Lucas
                            1995 - Matthew Primus
                            1996 - Chris Heffernan
                            1997 - Matthew Scarlett
                            1999 - Jonathan Brown
                            2001 - Gary Ablett Jr, Luke Hodge, Jimmy Bartel
                            2004 - Jordan Lewis
                            2005 - Shaun Higgins
                            2006 - Travis Boak
                            2007 - Patrick Dangerfield
                            2008 - Ayce Cordy
                            2009 - Ben Cunnington, Gary Rohan
                            2010 - Billy Smedts
                            2011 - Taylor Adams

                            With all that talent coming off the production line, Geelong would be unstoppable. While we need to create a greater talent pool in the north eastern states, we need to find a compromise. Gordon is willing to give up the talent that is coming the Dogs way, through father and son, to keep the competition on a level playing field, we need to find a way to do the same.
                            Sorry what's that got to do with the need of NSW and QLD requiring academies in order to grow the game and to attract more local talent to the playing ranks in non-AFL dominant states?

                            Comment

                            • penga
                              Senior Player
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 2601

                              Originally posted by jono2707
                              Sorry what's that got to do with the need of NSW and QLD requiring academies in order to grow the game and to attract more local talent to the playing ranks in non-AFL dominant states?
                              That's just it, that's not the only factor at play here. That is purely from our point of view, but the competition as a whole needs still needs a level playing ground. I know that there are many factors that make that near impossible, but I for one do not want to see a competition dominated by a handful of clubs. And the very fabric of the draft means that the weakest clubs get access to the best talent. Frankly, the acadamies, with the way the system stands at the moment, dilutes that idea. We've done extremely well to not have to bottom out and to maintain an era of success, but if Heeney, Hiscox and Davis become the next Ablett, Hodge and Bartel, as far as talent is concerned, I think we have damaged the competition.

                              By no means am I saying scrap the acadamies, but I think there is credence in having to offer up a fair price at the draft for talent that we have access to.
                              C'mon Chels!

                              Comment

                              • liz
                                Veteran
                                Site Admin
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 16778

                                Originally posted by penga
                                That's just it, that's not the only factor at play here. That is purely from our point of view, but the competition as a whole needs still needs a level playing ground. I know that there are many factors that make that near impossible, but I for one do not want to see a competition dominated by a handful of clubs. And the very fabric of the draft means that the weakest clubs get access to the best talent. Frankly, the acadamies, with the way the system stands at the moment, dilutes that idea. We've done extremely well to not have to bottom out and to maintain an era of success, but if Heeney, Hiscox and Davis become the next Ablett, Hodge and Bartel, as far as talent is concerned, I think we have damaged the competition.

                                By no means am I saying scrap the acadamies, but I think there is credence in having to offer up a fair price at the draft for talent that we have access to.
                                What if they are the next Goodes, Parker, Jack?

                                Comment

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