2016 trading and drafting (merged thread)

[707]

I noticed that also (after I posted it was only 1/2 hour (which it was at the time)

Fox making it up as they go!

[YvonneH]

Fox making it up as they go!

Much like the AFL?

[Aprilbr]

I concur that Logue looks like a great prospect for us to recruit and develop. It's unrealistic for us to expect these guys to slot straight into the seniors. Mills and Heeney are exceptional in this regard. When we drafted McVeigh as a top 10 pick it took him several seasons to reach his potential. He really struggled early as he lacked the strength to compete. Of course he did develop with a few preseasons in him and became a great player and leader for us. Patience is generally needed with these kids.


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[Aprilbr]

2016 trading and drafting (merged thread)

The name of Patrick Veszpremi keeps coming up here. Just a bit of trivia. Veszpremi was taken by us with the No 11 pick in the 2007 draft. The No 10 and 12 picks that year were two players by the names of Dangerfield and Rioli. Shows how things can easily go well or poorly. Our recruiting team have gotten it right more often than most but I don't think 2007 was one of our best years (we also took Meredith with our second pick of No 26 that year).


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[liz]

The name of Patrick Veszpremi keeps coming up here. Just a bit of trivia. Veszpremi was taken by us with the No 11 pick in the 2007 draft. The No 10 and 12 picks that year were two players by the names of Dangerfield and Rioli. Shows how things can easily go well or poorly. Our recruiting team have gotten it right more often than most but I don't think 2007 was one of our best years (we also took Meredith with our second pick of No 26 that year).


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2007 was certainly not a great outcome. Meredith was a decent player, I think, but a spate of injuries early in his career seemed to sap his confidence and possibly limit him physically. We essentially traded out Schneider to get the pick we used for Meredith (not to mention throwing Dempster in as a freebie), though there was some pick swapping involved too as we also picked up Mattner for a pick around the same point (whether this was our original pick or the one traded in for Schneider and Meredith).


We never had the option of picking Dangerfield (obviously) and it was well reported that Rioli made his reluctance to leave Melbourne well known pre-draft. Nonetheless, it doesn't make for good reading with the benefit of hindsight.

All goes to show just how tricky recruitment and list management are for a footy club.

[gumby_bolts]

It's neither here nor there but I won 2 tickets to go and watch the draft. I'm really hoping for mine and my sons sake its not three hours!

[Billericay]

it was well reported that Rioli made his reluctance to leave Melbourne well known pre-draft.

Wow! It really does make for a compromised draft when players can do that. I think the solution that has been suggested before, if players want to "go home", clubs can trade them to any club they want, would solve the problem. As would 3 year contracts for first round draft picks.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Isn't the issue that a draft if taken to court would be treated as illegal ?

Hence it is what is via negotiations with the players group ?

Terry hill a rugby league player to the NRL to court re the draft and won

[Ludwig]

We never had the option of picking Dangerfield (obviously) and it was well reported that Rioli made his reluctance to leave Melbourne well known pre-draft. Nonetheless, it doesn't make for good reading with the benefit of hindsight.

All goes to show just how tricky recruitment and list management are for a footy club.

This one with Rioli really irks me (still). Chad Wingard is another who reportedly made known his desire to stay in Adelaide.

Some of my comments about homesick players and those wanting to stay in their home towns may seem insensitive to some, but it's so discriminatory to the player acquisition process against clubs in the non-traditional states, although somewhat mitigated by the academy system.

There have been some rumours that Oliver Florent wants to stay in Victoria, ostensibly related to the recent death of his father. I do sympathize with his situation, although I don't know anything about his family situation as it stands. Florent would be one of the players I would have in the mix, especially for our second pick. My feeling is that he will go in the mid-teens and fall between our 2 first picks, but I would not want to feel that he was effectively off limits if he was still available at pick 19.

[Billericay]

This one with Rioli really irks me (still). Chad Wingard is another who reportedly made known his desire to stay in Adelaide.

Some of my comments about homesick players and those wanting to stay in their home towns may seem insensitive to some, but it's so discriminatory to the player acquisition process against clubs in the non-traditional states, although somewhat mitigated by the academy system.

There have been some rumours that Oliver Florent wants to stay in Victoria, ostensibly related to the recent death of his father. I do sympathize with his situation, although I don't know anything about his family situation as it stands. Florent would be one of the players I would have in the mix, especially for our second pick. My feeling is that he will go in the mid-teens and fall between our 2 first picks, but I would not want to feel that he was effectively off limits if he was still available at pick 19.

I sympathise with Florent because of his situation, but also think he'd be great for the Swans.

Perhaps the AFL could treat 'stay at home' players like Rioli, Wingard etc like Academy players but without a discount, so if, for example, a club bids on a WA player that wants to stay at home, that player can exercise a 'stay at home' option, but this would require a WA club provide the number of points required to draft them. If the WA club doesn't want to stump up the points, they go into the draft the following year. That way players can stay home, but there's a risk doing so means they won't get drafted. And if a club gets priority access to local talent, they pay fair value for them. The 25% discount remains for academy players to reward clubs for developing the player in the first place.

I think that's a fairer system than what we've got at the moment, and solves the problem for players and clubs. It also encourages clubs to develop local players. But there's probably something I've completely overlooked?

[CureTheSane]

Just gonna leave this here.
Anthony Rocca

[liz]

I sympathise with Florent because of his situation, but also think he'd be great for the Swans.

Perhaps the AFL could treat 'stay at home' players like Rioli, Wingard etc like Academy players but without a discount, so if, for example, a club bids on a WA player that wants to stay at home, that player can exercise a 'stay at home' option, but this would require a WA club provide the number of points required to draft them. If the WA club doesn't want to stump up the points, they go into the draft the following year. That way players can stay home, but there's a risk doing so means they won't get drafted. And if a club gets priority access to local talent, they pay fair value for them. The 25% discount remains for academy players to reward clubs for developing the player in the first place.

I think that's a fairer system than what we've got at the moment, and solves the problem for players and clubs. It also encourages clubs to develop local players. But there's probably something I've completely overlooked?

I think what you've overlooked is that it would be completely inpractical to administer, and would also mean that clubs like Sydney would be severely disadvantaged. If you give every kid the opportunity to nominate to stay in their home state, there would be close to no players available to Sydney to draft this year (given we have no-one of top 50 or so worthiness in the academy). The threat of not getting drafted if they choose to be inflexible might influence more marginal talents, but those who are close to guaranteed to be drafted would have no qualms about exercising their "stay at home" vote if it matters to them.

Some players won't care. They are happy to move. But ask most 18 year olds and they will say they want to stay at home. Give them half a season at an interstate club and most will come to love it. Others may take a season or two to settle down but eventually will. Homesickness is quite natural for a short period of time, but most people adjust pretty quickly (and realise that "home" isn't all it's cracked up to be).

Players have been indicating they don't want to move, to varying degrees, for years. Rocca apparently told Sydney back in the mid 1990s not to draft him as he'd move back to Victoria as soon as he could. Micky O didn't necessarily want to stay in Adelaide (reportedly he had his heart set on Carlton) but he was still very homesick for a while and, by his own admission, would have walked out on his AFL opportunity had it not been for his mother's insistence that he stick it out. (Thanks Mrs O!) Nick Smith initially refused to come to Sydney when he was taken in the rookie draft. Roosey had to get on the phone and charm Nick into at least giving Sydney a go. He's never looked like leaving since he got here. I recall an interview on the Swans website with AJ soon after he was drafted. He was asked about how he was with being drafted interstate, and while his words said he was fine with it, his face, tone of voice and body language said the complete opposite. He's another who settled in pretty quickly and seems to love Sydney (even allowing for his unusual circumstances).

To some degree, clubs (especially those from NSW and Queensland) need to back themselves to help interstate players adjust and want to commit long term to a club. It is certainly easier when a club is enjoying onfield success but there will always be some who want to return to the place from whence they came.

[Chookbilly]

Players have been indicating they don't want to move, to varying degrees, for years. Rocca apparently told Sydney back in the mid 1990s not to draft him as he'd move back to Victoria as soon as he could. Micky O didn't necessarily want to stay in Adelaide (reportedly he had his heart set on Carlton) but he was still very homesick for a while and, by his own admission, would have walked out on his AFL opportunity had it not been for his mother's insistence that he stick it out. (Thanks Mrs O!) Nick Smith initially refused to come to Sydney when he was taken in the rookie draft. Roosey had to get on the phone and charm Nick into at least giving Sydney a go. He's never looked like leaving since he got here. I recall an interview on the Swans website with AJ soon after he was drafted. He was asked about how he was with being drafted interstate, and while his words said he was fine with it, his face, tone of voice and body language said the complete opposite. He's another who settled in pretty quickly and seems to love Sydney (even allowing for his unusual circumstances).

I recall hearing Tim Membrey being interviewed once we drafted him. He sounded so disappointed about going to Sydney.

It's always a risk to draft interstate kids, but what option do we have? It's why the academies are currently required in non-traditional states. At the same time I fully trust the club and recruitment team to perform their due diligence before recruiting. It's probably a big reason we also seem to hold character assessments of draftee's in such high regard.

[707]

Isn't the issue that a draft if taken to court would be treated as illegal ?

Hence it is what is via negotiations with the players group ?

Terry hill a rugby league player to the NRL to court re the draft and won

No, the AFL draft cannot be legally challenged because kids have to nominate themselves for the draft to join the AFL and in doing so agree to a whole host of things including being drafted by any club.

No club would challenge this because as we found out the VFL can just punish you in any way they choose.

[bloodspirit]

Isn't the issue that a draft if taken to court would be treated as illegal ?

I regret that this furphy is so frequently and casually trotted out. It is unlikely that the AFL draft would be found to be an illegal restraint of trade. I have referenced articles and quotes to this effect in an earlier post to this thread (post #1416 on 25 October 2016).

Also, it is worth noting that not only would the clubs not necessarily have standing to make the challenge (it is the players' rights that are being interfered with after all, if anyone's are) but the whole reason the draft exists is to benefit the clubs and the AFL so of course it's not going to be them that challenge the legality of the draft. If anyone did it would surely be the players.