2018 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

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  • KTigers
    Senior Player
    • Apr 2012
    • 2499

    Originally posted by Meg
    Huh? I’ve always thought it would be a horrible place for a guy/ in his 20s to live. Small town full of oldies playing bingo!

    Did I get that wrong?
    Well, that could be classed as somewhat of a generalisation. Not sure I'd have the courage to say that to my in-laws....

    Comment

    • Meg
      Go Swannies!
      Site Admin
      • Aug 2011
      • 4828

      Originally posted by KTigers
      Well, that could be classed as somewhat of a generalisation. Not sure I'd have the courage to say that to my in-laws....
      Oops ..... [emoji15]!

      Comment

      • liz
        Veteran
        Site Admin
        • Jan 2003
        • 16737

        Originally posted by Meg
        Huh? I’ve always thought it would be a horrible place for a guy/ in his 20s to live. Small town full of oldies playing bingo!

        Did I get that wrong?
        Except for November(?) when the schoolies roll in. I guess the players are back in training by then - or at least they are if they play for the Gold Coast.

        Comment

        • dejavoodoo44
          Veterans List
          • Apr 2015
          • 8492

          Originally posted by Meg
          Huh? I’ve always thought it would be a horrible place for a guy/ in his 20s to live. Small town full of oldies playing bingo!

          Did I get that wrong?
          Generally, yes. Though the live music scene hardly exists.

          Comment

          • 707
            Veterans List
            • Aug 2009
            • 6204

            Originally posted by Meg
            Huh? I’ve always thought it would be a horrible place for a guy/ in his 20s to live. Small town full of oldies playing bingo!

            Did I get that wrong?
            Yes you did, got GC mixed up with Hervey Bay! I was in Goldy a month back, must say, from the honeys wandering around I wished I was a single 20 something footballer rather than a 60yo single bloke who likes red wine too much!

            Comment

            • S.S. Bleeder
              Senior Player
              • Sep 2014
              • 2165

              Originally posted by Mr Magoo
              It always makes me wonder , what makes the gold coast such an unattractive option for not just players in AFL but in Rugby league as well.

              The weathers great , the atmosphere is relaxed , good nightlife, good recreational options etc. If I was in my twenties it seems like it would be a pretty good place to be .
              I agree. I spent a lot of time in my late teens and early twentys there. It was a hoot for me. A holiday there can be very different to living there though, especially if you're an elite athlete who can't take advantage of the partying lifestyle.

              Comment

              • Markwebbos
                Veterans List
                • Jul 2016
                • 7186

                Interesting perspective from Cornes on Lynch’s free agency move to Richmond. I think he’s right that it threatens the integrity of the AFL. Making recipient clubs give up the compensation pick would slow things down.

                Tom Lynch to Richmond Tigers “threatens integrity of competition”: Kane Cornes

                “Port Adelaide premiership player Kane Cornes has slammed Tom Lynch’s ability to join Richmond via free agency, saying the system “threatens the integrity of the competition”.”

                “It’s not right and the AFL must act now on this free agency farce,” Cornes told SEN Mornings.

                “How the captain of the 17th ranked club can up and leave and join the 2017 premier, a team that finished the top of the ladder again this year and appears certain to win back-to-back flags, is just not right and threatens the integrity of the competition.

                “I’m not sure how the Gold Coast will recover. Sure the AFL will hand them a top-five draft pick as compensation but what good will that do? None.

                Comment

                • Swansongster
                  Senior Player
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1264

                  Gold Coast was built as a money-laundering haven for crooks of all shapes and sizes. Still serves that function. Now run by crooked cops and bikers for their underworld/big business masters.

                  Despite that, not a bad place to visit and I have some friends who live thereabouts comfortably and happily

                  Comment

                  • liz
                    Veteran
                    Site Admin
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 16737

                    Originally posted by Markwebbos
                    Interesting perspective from Cornes on Lynch’s free agency move to Richmond. I think he’s right that it threatens the integrity of the AFL. Making recipient clubs give up the compensation pick would slow things down.

                    Tom Lynch to Richmond Tigers “threatens integrity of competition”: Kane Cornes

                    “Port Adelaide premiership player Kane Cornes has slammed Tom Lynch’s ability to join Richmond via free agency, saying the system “threatens the integrity of the competition”.”

                    “It’s not right and the AFL must act now on this free agency farce,” Cornes told SEN Mornings.

                    “How the captain of the 17th ranked club can up and leave and join the 2017 premier, a team that finished the top of the ladder again this year and appears certain to win back-to-back flags, is just not right and threatens the integrity of the competition.

                    “I’m not sure how the Gold Coast will recover. Sure the AFL will hand them a top-five draft pick as compensation but what good will that do? None.
                    The problem with this is that it stops being free agency if the recipient club has to give something up. That would reduce the ability of players to move to the club of their choice, and hence undermine what free agency is meant to be about. If nothing else, the AFLPA would almost certainly resist.

                    Free agency is still a relatively new concept for the AFL industry and many of us still think in the old terms of having to give something up to get something good. We need to get our heads around the fact that clubs only have "priority" access to players they draft for a short period - a shorter lease term, if you like, though they are still in the box seat to renew their leases at end of term.

                    The provision of compensation picks actually distorts the free agency mechanism. Lynch is a restricted free agent and hence Gold Coast has the right to match. If they choose to do so, they will force Richmond (or another club) to give up something good to get him. Unfortunately, every knows that they won't get more than the compensation pick on offer.

                    The only justification for the compensation picks is that it brings an element of equalisation into the process. That is, it provides some protection for those awful clubs mired at the bottom of the ladder for year after year. Many of those clubs are stuck in an endless loop - low prospects of short to medium term success makes them unattractive for players looking to move, and any amount of spare salary cap space seems to make no difference. Players are more interested in success than money, it seems.

                    The answer has to be to find a way to break out of that loop but it's hard to know what the answer is. I'm not a fan of giving clubs at the bottom an endless supply of more high draft picks because it doesn't see to have an effect (and if it did, there would be a delayed feedback effect that could lead to a club suddenly becoming super strong).

                    A lot of the problem comes from the mentality of being prepared to be awful for a few years in the hope that things will suddenly turn around. Getting rid of that mindset would be a great start. The Dogs and Tigers have shown how quickly an apparently mediocre list can be turned around, while Sydney, Adelaide and Geelong have demonstrated that a club can maintain a highly competitive list over an extended period without access to many, or any, high draft picks. Clubs just need to believe that they can develop good players - not necessarily superstars, but highly capable role players - from all regions of the draft if you churn through enough of them.


                    That said, I do think the challenges facing the four clubs in the non-AFL markets face a greater challenge. The Swans have been fine because they've been able to stay competitive, and have delivered the ultimate prize intermittently. But they've made a conscious decision that they have to remain in and around the top eight each year and can't afford to go into "rebuild" mode because it will become that much harder to attract and retain players. The Lions have experienced this problem first hand and finally seem to be emerging from the cycle but it's been a long slog for them. The Giants are yet to experience it but may in 5-10 years. And, of course, the Suns seem to be stuck at the very bottom of the cycle, unable to attract any top quality players despite what must be huge salary cap space, and also unable to retain enough of the good players they have.

                    Comment

                    • giant
                      Veterans List
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 4731

                      Originally posted by liz
                      That said, I do think the challenges facing the four clubs in the non-AFL markets face a greater challenge. The Swans have been fine because they've been able to stay competitive, and have delivered the ultimate prize intermittently. But they've made a conscious decision that they have to remain in and around the top eight each year and can't afford to go into "rebuild" mode because it will become that much harder to attract and retain players. The Lions have experienced this problem first hand and finally seem to be emerging from the cycle but it's been a long slog for them. The Giants are yet to experience it but may in 5-10 years. And, of course, the Suns seem to be stuck at the very bottom of the cycle, unable to attract any top quality players despite what must be huge salary cap space, and also unable to retain enough of the good players they have.
                      Bizarrely, I heard recently that they're struggling with their salary cap - it seems almost inconceivable but maybe they've had to pay overs to keep even the underwhelming talent they still have.

                      My recollection of free agency was that it was a salve to the Players Association - and to that end, it's achieved exactly what the players were hoping for. That Lynch who has played 8 years with the Suns through some difficult and unsuccessful years can choose to go to play out his final years with a very competitive team doesn't seem an unreasonable result. It does lead however to a situation where the bottom teams are constantly being undermined. Not sure I know what the answer is either.

                      Comment

                      • Markwebbos
                        Veterans List
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 7186

                        Free agency undermines attempts, via the draft etc, at equalisation.

                        However thinking about it, it’s only a small part of the problem as O’Meara, Prestia and a host of others left GCS via trade not free agency. Ditto the Lions until Fagan arrived.

                        The answer is therefore to get the other aspects right at these clubs: coaching, welfare, etc, so that players want to stay at them and can see success in the future.

                        Ironically the draft rewards underperforming clubs with the most talented players, who are then likely to want to leave unless those clubs experience success.

                        Priority picks reinforce this by sending even more talent to a club that is failing performance wise.

                        As Liz says, lack of talent wasn’t the problem. How’s about every time a club asks for a priority pick, the AFL sends in a team to review the entire clubs structures and sack / replace board members and coaches as necessary.

                        How can a professional club like Carlton believe it’s OK to perform as they have his year?

                        Comment

                        • Ludwig
                          Veterans List
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9359

                          Since the AFL is just about the last of the major sporting competitions to adopt some form of free agency it is well aware of its ramifications. Free agency is in direct conflict with equalisation. Every league around the world with free agency has a tiered competition with stronger clubs remaining at the top at the expense of weaker, poorer clubs.

                          The AFL is trying to mitigate this by using free agency compensation, although it is a half measure which seems to have little effect on the weakest clubs, and is exploited by the stronger clubs to get draft picks for players they would prefer to unload anyway.

                          Expansion from 16 to 18 clubs further exacerbated the problem by diluting the player pool and establishing yet 2 more clubs to dependent on the AFL for survival.

                          Unfortunately, there's no real solution in sight. I would imagine that other leagues around the world would prefer a more balanced competition, but haven't managed to achieve it.

                          Comment

                          • barry
                            Veterans List
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 8499

                            The problem with compensation picks is it is no price to the club getting the player. in fact the cost is bourne by all the other clubs whose pick shuffles down one spot.
                            Its the worst sort of free agency model ever devised.

                            But I honestly think making the goal square 20m will solve it and a whole lot of other problems.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by Markwebbos
                            Free agency undermines attempts, via the draft etc, at equalisation.

                            However thinking about it, it’s only a small part of the problem as O’Meara, Prestia and a host of others left GCS via trade not free agency. Ditto the Lions until Fagan arrived.

                            For a lot of those players traded out, it was on the threat of free-agency that the trade got off the ground. Trade me for good value now, or take your chances with a compo pick later.

                            Comment

                            • 707
                              Veterans List
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 6204

                              Unless you get enough traction from your time in the cellar, liplayer/draft assistanceke Melbourne, you can end up a low peaker and fall back down, like St.Kilda now and the "They know we're coming" Carlton circa 2010.

                              The draft is a fairly poor way of equalising, the bottom team gets the number 1 pick but thereafter the premier has a pick before them, 18 for premier, 19 for spooner, 36 for premier, 37 for spooner. So a handful of very top picks isn't sufficient to raise you very far, and you still have to get the picks right, McCartin the lesser, Tom Boyd, etc.

                              If Gold Coast don't absolutely nail this draft, they are a basket case for ever I reckon unless the VFL do some serious player/draft assistance.

                              Comment

                              • barry
                                Veterans List
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 8499

                                All the northern clubs need a cap allowance to combat the go home factor, which is even more so now with free agency.
                                Even the swans need it.

                                Comment

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