2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Mr Magoo]

Good points. Point four interests me. I while back, I was wondering why some obviously talented players, can't seem to transfer junior or NEAFL form to the AFL. I suspect that one contributing reason, is that pretty well every draftee grows up being either the best player, or one of the best, in all the previous teams that they've played in. In some cases, this could engender the development of a narcissistic attitude. When those players are put it in a situation where they are not amongst the best players, then some self defeating defence mechanisms could be activated.

Yep , I think its a really interesting thing. As you say , pretty much every kid in the academy is the best or in the best three of four from their club. As a result they are generally midfield or a key position player. They then get to academy and all of a sudden there are say (at under 16 level) fifty kids like that and the following years 20-30 kids like that. They may then get picked in say the NSW Rams and the top dozen Swans kids get mixed with the top dozen giants kids. Apart from the key position spine players and the ruckman , pretty much every other kid is a club star midfielder playing in forward pocket, back pocket , half forward flank , half back flank , wing and you can guarantee that every one of them thinks they should be midfield as thats seen as the prime role and they are all pretty competitive in nature just by virtue of where they have gotten in their football.

Ive seen kids whether deliberately or subconsciously then play quite selfishly and do things like not kick to certain players and not take the right options. I would really be interested to know how much notice the swans take of this as its not outwardly apparent and due to them pushing for players at training to "get around each other" as they put it , it can be hidden by those who are smart enough to say all the right things in drills etc but clearly hold underlying resentments.

Clearly as they reach the next level if this type of behaviour persists you can understand that they suddenly look pretty ordinary in NEAFL or AFL level as everyone is reasonably good and if you let ego rule then those things that may look a little selfish at junior level probably magnify.

[MattW]

I'm confused by KB saying yesterday "We would prefer to call the name of the player that we want, and will get"

Surely you bid on the player you most want. I don't know if this is related to Flanders saying he'd rather not leave Victoria (I read this last night and cannot find the article) and our need to demonstrate to whoever we pick that they were our first choice?

Or if we think Flanders would be a better option than Green because he's quicker

I agree it's slightly odd - the 'and will get'. If everyone took that approach, Green wouldn't be picked up until GWS has a pick (and even then, GWS could just keep holding off until its last pick). It is also inconsistent - the Swans have bid on plenty of opposition team Academy players in the past.

One possibility: the Swans are resigned to GWS matching a bid on Green and have focused on others available, and thus it seems a bit disingenuous to just bid on Green to spoil GWS.

Another: the Swans genuinely don't rate him at 5 and the 'and will get' is a flourish.

[Markwebbos]

I agree it's slightly odd - the 'and will get'. If everyone took that approach, Green wouldn't be picked up until GWS has a pick (and even then, GWS could just keep holding off until its last pick). It is also inconsistent - the Swans have bid on plenty of opposition team Academy players in the past.

One possibility: the Swans are resigned to GWS matching a bid on Green and have focused on others available, and thus it seems a bit disingenuous to just bid on Green to spoil GWS.

Another: the Swans genuinely don't rate him at 5 and the 'and will get' is a flourish.

Third option: They know Melbourne are going to bid on Green! Interesting that phantom drafts now have the Dees bidding on Green but at pick 10 not pick 3. I would have thought he fits a need more at other clubs than Melbourne...

[Blood Fever]

I'm confused by KB saying yesterday "We would prefer to call the name of the player that we want, and will get"

Surely you bid on the player you most want. I don't know if this is related to Flanders saying he'd rather not leave Victoria (I read this last night and cannot find the article) and our need to demonstrate to whoever we pick that they were our first choice?

Or if we think Flanders would be a better option than Green because he's quicker

Not really confusing, just being realistic. We won't get Green so we call out the name of the player we are realistically targeting. Maybe his words are also aimed at who we end up drafting so they feel more valued.

[bloodspirit]

I agree that "...and will get" is a bit curious. It's also interesting that there may have been a shift in the club being willing to bid on Green at pick 5 since GWS traded up to pick 4. The consequences for GWS are now different and the chance of us actually getting Green if we bid on him have diminished from slim to non-existent (since GWS have won't be foregoing their other top pick to match the bid).

I think that some clubs are reluctant to use a bid on a player that they don't get partly because it sends a message, both to the player actually drafted, and to the fans, that there is another player we would have preferred to have "but we had to settle for player X". This factor applies more forcefully the higher up the order and would be at its most potent with pick 1. Pick 5 is pretty high up the order.

So, I don't see our non-bidding on Green as either an attempt to curry favour with the Giants, nor an indication that we don't rate Green as highly or wouldn't take Green if the Giants didn't have an overriding claim on him, but rather a synthesis of the following factors that led to our decision to pass over Green at pick 5:

* we actually do want a mid with some traits a bit different to Green e.g. maybe faster or better kick or more goalkicking ability and anyway there is not much between the relevant players
* there is not much to be achieved by bidding on Green, in particular we will not get him
* it will look better and be a bit more marketable with the fans
* it might feel like a greater vote of confidence for the player we actually get.

I do think the comment "...and will get" was directed at Green not Flanders or anyone else. This makes sense since he was answering a question that was primarily about whether we will bid on Green.

- - - Updated - - -

p.s. Thanks Mr Magoo for your excellent posts.

[Markwebbos]

BS You nailed it. After GWS trades from 6 to 4 they lose nothing by matching our bid

[AnnieH]

Have we won a meat tray yet?

[Markwebbos]

Looking forward to some fresh young meat Annie?

[AnnieH]

Looking forward to some fresh young meat Annie?

Always.

[Dosser]

Barling did play midfield at underage level but I get the feeling that Swans see that his development plateaued. Quite a solid unit when he was younger so not sure if he developed early and then everyone caught up.

Brewer is a pretty solid player as well without being spectacular.

What I am seeing now is that with the academy becoming stronger and stronger each year there really isnt a lot between the top ten academy level players . They all from under 16s onwards start the preseason at the same time as the seniors so they are all well trained, fit and well drilled so it then comes down to things like Speed , ability to hit targets etc.

If I was recruiting at the moment and with the way the game has developed at junior levels , all of the players that reach the academy or TAC sup levels are reasonably fit. Therefore the things that stand out in players for me are :
1. Speed - your either fast or your not and no amount of training will give you it.
2. Ability to hit targets/ goals - I see a lot of players that can get the ball but thats no use if you cant then hit a target. Similarly a player that can kick a goal more often than not whether it be from a set shot or on the run is actually not that common. Many of the boys that make the higher levels come form midfields at club level so it is amazing how few actually have good goal kicking ability.
3. Footy smarts - knowing the right options and playing with sense are important.
4. Coachability and professionalism - Putting away ego is important and it is amazing at the higher rep levels in kids football how some kids cant hide their personal grudge over why Billy has the starting midfield role over them and how many kids will try to do something really tricky rather than the simple team stuff as they think it will help them to be noticed .

I will add to these what I know is fact. Two other attributes they look for is the ability to keep their feet and their ability to be one-touch ball users.

[111431]

an interesting take on the draft reported on the ABC. the consensus have us taking Flanders, Jeremy Sharp from WA and Cameron Taheny from SA. the latter two are big sliders in the draft from the early season predictions.

The 2019 AFL draft will take place in Melbourne and the experts have made their tips - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[jono2707]

At the pointy end of the draft you take the best available. If Green is still there, we pick him if we think he's the best player not yet taken, even though we probably won't get him.

I doubt that Clayton Oliver has ever held a grudge against the Demons for their selection of Callum Mills a few years ago...

[bloodspirit]

I will add to these what I know is fact. Two other attributes they look for is the ability to keep their feet and their ability to be one-touch ball users.

Do you consider these to be attributes that can be gained through training or are they more innate?

[Auntie.Gerald]

hearing Fisher McAsey may go at pick 4 for GWS !!!!

interesting shuffling of the deck from there if so

[bloodspirit]

hearing Fisher McAsey may go at pick 4 for GWS !!!!

interesting shuffling of the deck from there if so

Very interesting, if true! Gives us our first preference outside of Rowell and Anderson, you would think.

I'm thinking Freo are going to be big winners (again) tonight. Whichever two get through to them at 7 & 8 are going to be guns, then you add Liam Henry on top. Nice. They did well last year (or perhaps it was the year before when they took Brayshaw and Cerra, I can't remember now who they took last year) and they also did well in last year's trade period to bring in Hogan (although he hasn't worked out that well so far), Lobb and someone else too (Stephen Hill?). Gold Coast can't go wrong. Port have three first round picks.

Can't wait to see who we pick. Don't have a first preference myself. It's all a bit beyond my ken except I can tell we will get someone who should be exciting.