2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[bloodspirit]

Deluca had already established an AFL career, albeit not too successful or abundant.....but at least he had had a few chances and as such, was very unlikely to be picked up in the ND. Hirst is a young player just starting out and now appears to have lost his AFL career before it even started due to punting on the mid season draft.

I feel for the kid and he is a perfect example of all that is wrong with only offering these mid season draftees a minimum six month contract, especially considering that ND draftees get a minimum 2 years.

It could be argued that Hirst was not good enough and that this would have been the eventual outcome anyway but I agree with the articles assertion that these draftees should be offered a minimum 18 month contract to prove themselves. As a reject, his chances of getting picked up now are severely dented.....

BTW, I don't think the articles intention is to have a go at the Swans, although it does hint that our "controversial" play for Daniher and the failure to move on Papley had a direct impact on the non retaining of Hirst. That did piss me off a bit.....but it just happens we are the club whose actions (which, let's face it, were right for our club at this point in time) have lead to a young players career potentially ending before it had a real chance of succeeding.

If anything, it will have young players questioning if it is worth entering the mid season draft.....unless their minimum contract is extended to 18 months, to make the mid season draft gamble one more worth taking.

Thanks stevoswan. Point taken re Deluca. I feel for Hirst, but no more than other players that get delisted. A few months ago it would have been said how wonderful that he gets an opportunity after missing out in the ND and rookie draft and PSD last season. I think it is easy to write "he would have been taken in the top 50 of this year's ND" and it is more sensational and will attract more reads but it is probably not true. And bottom line is we gave him a chance and he wasn't good enough. If he were better than either Wicks or Foot, I don't think we'd be delisting him. Maybe he can go away, improve and get drafted in the future. But I suspect it is a long shot because he is so small.

I don't support 18 month contracts - that's more than rookies get. If players don't want to risk it, they can hold off until the end of the season and aim to be drafted in the ND/rookie/PSD. Nobody is forcing them to nominate for the mid-season draft. Plus they get delisting handshake of some tens of thousands of dollars I think. And maybe fewer players will nominate next time around (if there is a next time), and that's ok too. But, more likely, players will nominate because there were more success stories than failures. In fact I don't think it was predicted that so many of them would be retained at the end of the season let alone how many of them would play first grade footy (and win premierships and poll in the Norm Smith!).

Thanks also TheMase. I got the impression that Bell had a one year contract from this article (among others): Five Swans secured - sydneyswans.com.au. Typical Swans, it is fairly opaque and while giving the impression the five fringe players were all extended for one year it doesn't explicitly say "only one year". Hopefully Bell has got a 2 year deal and will be elevated to the senior list as I had supposed. And maybe we'll get another Cat B rookie (apart from O'Connor).

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A Lesser price with us.
And Melbourne aren't going to bid on green at 3. If they did, giants won't match it. Guaranteed.

"Guaranteed", my sweet aunt Nancy! Your talking out of your wazoo, baz.

[stevoswan]

Thanks stevoswan. Point taken re Deluca. I feel for Hirst, but no more than other players that get delisted. A few months ago it would have been said how wonderful that he gets an opportunity after missing out in the ND and rookie draft and PSD last season. I think it is easy to write "he would have been taken in the top 50 of this year's ND" and it is more sensational and will attract more reads but it is probably not true. And bottom line is we gave him a chance and he wasn't good enough. If he were better than either Wicks or Foot, I don't think we'd be delisting him. Maybe he can go away, improve and get drafted in the future. But I suspect it is a long shot because he is so small.

I don't support 18 month contracts - that's more than rookies get. If players don't want to risk it, they can hold off until the end of the season and aim to be drafted in the ND/rookie/PSD. Nobody is forcing them to nominate for the mid-season draft. Plus they get delisting handshake of some tens of thousands of dollars I think. And maybe fewer players will nominate next time around (if there is a next time), and that's ok too. But, more likely, players will nominate because there were more success stories than failures. In fact I don't think it was predicted that so many of them would be retained at the end of the season let alone how many of them would play first grade footy (and win premierships and poll in the Norm Smith!).

You make some valid points there BS. I agree that 18 months is too long and have changed my view accordingly......to what I said in my last post, no. 4830.

[Markwebbos]

A Lesser price with us.
And Melbourne aren't going to bid on green at 3. If they did, giants won't match it. Guaranteed.

I’m probably missing something but GWS could swap 6 and next years first rounder with Melbourne for pick 3. Or our pick 5. Why would they do the deal with us?

We could offer Melbourne a better deal for pick 3 than GWS If we thought Young or whoever was worth it and we aren’t going to use our first rounder next year anyway due to matching for the academy two.

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See Bennell is having a medical with Melbourne. Does that mean we’ve told him we aren’t interested or he’s hedging his bets?

[rickmat]

I actually think the Mid Season draft is not well thought out by the AFL for 2 reasons. Firstly, draftees Hirst and DeLuca are let go after 6 months without being given much of a chance. Secondly the teams they are drafted from mid season lose big time as they lose key players without recompence or chance of replacing those drafted. There must be a better way for all concerned.

[stevoswan]

See Bennell is having a medical with Melbourne. Does that mean we’ve told him we aren’t interested or he’s hedging his bets?

I suppose we don't know the full story and have to trust whatever the Swans decide on this.....but, at this point in time, I would see it as an opportunity lost if we have.

[Nico]

I think that the GWS drafting strategy may work out very well for them but badly for Sydney.
Consider

Picks 1&2 Rowell and Anderson to Gold Coast
Pick 3 GWS offer Melbourne Pick 6 and 2020 1st round but Melbourne do not accept. Take Hayden Young who would not last to pick 6.
Pick 4 GWS offer Adelaide Pick 6 and 2020 1st round which Adelaide accept. GWS now take Caleb Serong, Sydney second choice.
Pick 5 Sydney bid on Tom Green but GWS match burning a heap of points but much better than matching 3 or 4.
Pick 6 Sydney are left looking at Lachie Ash who they do not need, Sam Flanders who they do not rate or Brodie Kemp who fits their need but will likely not play till late in 2020 and has two other risks, poor recovery from his ACL and a go home factor in 2022. The injury and missing year heavily discount his value. Upshot is Sydney is not going to get an opportunity to take any of the five players they rated top five.
Pick 7 Adelaide take Dylan Stephens a local boy who was always their target.

GWS happy they get two potential stars
Adelaide happy as they get their target with a nice bonus of GWS 2020 1st rounder
Melbourne happy as they got Young who was their target.
Sydney unhappy as they miss out on both Green and Serong as well as Young.

That's a very pessimistic outlook. We showed last year we are very shrewd at the draft under the new format. Who knows which club is looking at who. On SEN yesterday there was strong speculation that Melbourne will go for the ruckman Jackson.

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Would Melbourne be interested in taking our 5 and 25 for their 3? With the way our numbers are, looks like we are only going to draft 2-3 in the main draft anyway which we could do with 3, 32 and 44. Plus we might take a delisted player (eg Bennell) as well as the rookie draft.

I believe we have to draft 3 or include a rookie upgrade in the 3.

[707]

We'll need more than three to fill the vacant spots on our lists.

If Bennell is doing a medical at Melbourne it would indicate we haven't guaranteed to draft him but may still be interested.

[SeanM]

I think it goes both ways with the mid season draft.

Some players may have got an opportunity they may not have otherwise got. Due to the time of the year and teams having injuries.

I think the club picked Hirst for the longer term. But we signed Taylor and then Campbell/Gulden looked like turning out better than expected.

[Markwebbos]

I think it goes both ways with the mid season draft.

Some players may have got an opportunity they may not have otherwise got. Due to the time of the year and teams having injuries.

I think the club picked Hirst for the longer term. But we signed Taylor and then Campbell/Gulden looked like turning out better than expected.

I don't think we'd ever have drafted Grassy if it wasn't for the injuries to Naismith, Sinkers and Cameron. So it worked for him.
If Hirst was such a likely draftee in 2019, can he not nominate for this years ND and RD?

[stevoswan]

I don't think we'd ever have drafted Grassy if it wasn't for the injuries to Naismith, Sinkers and Cameron. So it worked for him.
If Hirst was such a likely draftee in 2019, can he not nominate for this years ND and RD?

Yes he can....but having had a chance and now been delisted, he may be 'tainted'....for his sake, I hope not.

[Blood Fever]

Yes he can....but having had a chance and now been delisted, he may be 'tainted'....for his sake, I hope not.

Could help him if his attitude has been good. Knows what to expect and the Swans, if appropriate, may mention the Papley retention went against him.

[SeanM]

I think the Swans are a club that can be patient with later picks or rookies who they see as raw with high potential. Where when drafted they might see them as playing predominantly reserve football for 2-3 years. From the last draft I think Mcinerney, Reynolds and Tucker were viewed that way.

An AFL club selecting Hirst is probably going to have that approach. And be patient enough to stick him in the reserves for two years and then see what happens. I think we intended to do that but ended up prioritising other players.

I hope he does well and got some benefit and enjoyment from being part of an AFL club for half a season. He would be able to put together a decent NEAFL highlight reel. He was inconsistent but did some classy things and was a good runner.

[MattW]

Very useful primer from Sam McClure.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/clubs-step-up-the-chase-for-free-agent-bennell-20191029-p535cz.html

Excerpts:

"Bennell has passed a medical in Sydney and has twice had dinner with senior players, including superstar Lance Franklin."

...

"As a delisted free agent, Bennell is able to begin training with multiple clubs as of Friday, but if he does so he'll need to nominate for the draft.

If not, the 27-year-old can begin paid training with only one club from December 3, where he will join that club on a trial basis and will be eligible for practice and pre-season games.

The club will then have the option of picking him up in the supplementary selection period, in a similar way to Richmond's selection of Sydney Stack last season."

[Markwebbos]

Very useful primer from Sam McClure.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/clubs-step-up-the-chase-for-free-agent-bennell-20191029-p535cz.html

Excerpts:

"Bennell has passed a medical in Sydney and has twice had dinner with senior players, including superstar Lance Franklin."

...

"As a delisted free agent, Bennell is able to begin training with multiple clubs as of Friday, but if he does so he'll need to nominate for the draft.

If not, the 27-year-old can begin paid training with only one club from December 3, where he will join that club on a trial basis and will be eligible for practice and pre-season games.

The club will then have the option of picking him up in the supplementary selection period, in a similar way to Richmond's selection of Sydney Stack last season."

Thanks

[Auntie.Gerald]

“Sources close to the player have told The Age he will begin running this week and advice from multiple surgeons and Melbourne-based calf expert Peter Santon is that Bennell is a strong chance of returning to full fitness.”

Ref: Same article

Ps from what I have heard is that Bennell is still doing plenty of strength work prior to surgery and post surgery plus lots of cardio

Running was just limited and or Nil for a while

There are plenty of AFL players that do swimming, boxing, cycling plus strength training when managing injuries such as ongoing OP, groin strains, hip flexors etc etc while keeping off legs during the weekdays