2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[bloodspirit]

Kaiden Brand has some kicking ability: NZ Camp: Double trick shot - hawthornfc.com.au.

Also found this kind of dull, kind of interesting video of him having lunch with a teammate on the Hawthorn FC website: Let's Do Lunch: Brand & O'Brien - hawthornfc.com.au. They don't talk about anything especially interesting but it's a great window into the life of the players both in terms of what it's like at a footy club and revealing a bit about them as people. Would love to see Swans media give us some of Will & Paps having lunch, or Aliir & Melican etc. etc.

[Beerman]

I think Harley and Gardiner are the whipping boys because they are newcomers and outsiders. Which is not a reason to doubt their competence but does explain the prejudice. The fact they were chosen by us despite in spite of being relatively inexperienced outsiders attests to their ability.

It was informative and amusing to go back and read some threads from 2010-11 on our then fairly new coach. Longmire was nearly universally abused as a hack with no imagination, no sense of the game and no plan and the predictions of doom and gloom for the Swans with him in charge were persistent.

Then in 2012-14 he was a genius, a mastermind and easily the greatest coach in the competition. He seems to be back to being a complete spud now.

Such are the dramatic attitude swings of the footy fan. You can hardly blame players like Buddy and Daniher for wanting to get away from it. At least in Sydney it's only hardcore Swans tragics in a couple of online forums - in Melbourne they have to face it everywhere they go.

[Markwebbos]

At least in Sydney it's only hardcore Swans tragics in a couple of online forums.

What are you saying?

[bloodspirit]

Damian Barrett has changed his tune! A selection from the piece below.

BARRETT: The inside story of the Daniher debacle - AFL.com.au

Daniher was in Sydney to receive treatment from a medical specialist highly regarded in the NRL industry. Swans champion Buddy Franklin had also been treated by this specialist. The catch-up with Harley, with whom he had developed a special rapport in 2011 when part of the Australian Institute of Sport squad - which also included Stephen Coniglio, Adam Treloar, Luke Parker and Jeremy Cameron – was a casual one.

Harley genuinely felt the meeting was nothing more than a coffee with a person who saw him as a mentor. As he has observed privately in the months since, Harley regularly catches up with big name players from rival clubs, particularly some from the team at which he captained to two premierships, Geelong, as well as footballers from Greater Western Sydney, some of whom live near him in Balmain... Harley actually didn’t realise at the time of the July catch-up that he [Daniher] was desperate to leave Tullamarine, and the Swans, as well as Daniher's own management, had felt that any exit plans could wait until free agency applied at the end of 2020.

Credit where credit is due: this is a good article by Barrett. The most in depth and believable article I have read yet about what happened and how the trade period drama came about. Works well for him too in the cynical media landscape. First he can get a lot of clicks by pandering to anti-Swans sentiment and fanning the flames of outrage in a shouty op ed. And then he can get more clicks and possibly some cred for breaking the behind-the-scenes story about what "really" happened. Never mind the personal cost to players like Daniher who is going to suffer a lot scrutiny and limelight in the year ahead just to drive clicks and sales. But too little, too late. I agree that Barrett should apologise for his earlier rants. I won't be holding my breath waiting.

The real story is what is going on at EFC that there are so many disaffected players. #AdelaideImplosionAllOverAgain ?

There is reference to some trade figures being unwilling to deal with Dodoro. Is that for real? We hear a lot about this but never any specific examples. If it is for real, how can get away with being such a dickhead? And how can Barrett say we should have been ready and willing to pay overs just because we should have known that Dodoro wouldn't settle for less? That's just gormless on his part.

[bloodspirit]

What are you saying?

+ 1

[stevoswan]

They've absolutely lost the plot. Gray will be useful enough - Clarke, Thurlow, Taylor and Brand are just list cloggers.

Mmmm.....let's look at some of the 'list cloggers' from other clubs that we've recruited and turned into good players over the years......

Richards, Mattner, Kennedy, McGlynn, Shaw, Mumford, C Bolton and even Morton and Laidler.

"Absolutely lost the plot"?.....wayyyy too early to call....but feel free to vent.

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Completely agree! Who is in charge of our list management???

Why would Brisbane get rid of Taylor if they are in the premiership window, or Hawthorn delist Brand if they have already Frawley near retirement?

The strategy of picking up players from other club may have work ten year ago, but with the expansion clubs there is not enough talent to go around.

Clubs are cutting players who have been giving a chance but are really just good reserves players with no upside.

This is either Harley or Gardiner's works or both and i am losing faith in them.

Just because you were a good player and captain or a corporate lawyer does not mean you will be good at running a club.

The waste of salary cap to get in these hopeless player is a disgrace.

Oh dear....'outrage' is in full swing I see. Get over yourselves people and stop attacking the 'outsiders'. They're Swans now......get behind them!

[stevoswan]

What are you saying?

+ 1

I think you both know what he's saying....it seemed pretty straight forward to me. Why, do you think he's talking about you and if so, why would you think that? Maybe he has a point.....

[Beerman]

What are you saying?

Hey - I’m the first to admit I have a problem [emoji38]

Seriously though, I’d hate to be in an environment where half the people I meet every day are judging me for how I perform at my job, and at least some are happy to let me know about it.

[Markwebbos]

Hey - I’m the first to admit I have a problem [emoji38]

I could give up RWO anytime. Just now's not the right time!

[bloodspirit]

"Hardcore Swans tragic" - I feel like I've gotten somewhere, like I've been promoted! I was thinking I was just a wannabe tryhard johnny-come-lately. Baby, I'm gettin' places.

[Auntie.Gerald]

I think it’s not fair to define any of the new DFA or traded recruits we are bringing on as “list cloggers”

Players are only “list cloggers” if we deliberately said no to “list enhancers”

????

Players “clog” if there are decent starting player alternatives that should be in their place...... of which we don’t have any the last two seasons despite being very active to “enhance” our list via trades that fell through one way or another

I think the frustration is that our Plan B via trades or Free Agency seems galaxies apart

We go from trading in a marque type player strategy and then we flip to a Thurlow or Clarke or 4 knee reconstruction Menzel etc

If jones goes to saints for pick 33ish, why can’t we trade in a serious player with a similar draft pick?

At this stage we are going the slow lane via drafting youth and experienced surplus / unwanted players from other clubs which is a valid strategy

I don’t mind a long term strategy, but I do take issue that I think we can’t trade more effectively short term and maintain a better win loss finals competitive team

If we are back to 12 wins plus in 2020 i would say then our strategy was acceptable albeit underwhelming

If we are at 8-10 wins in 2020 I think that our rebuilding on the run is completely unacceptable and not up to par to teams that have traded very effectively the last few years ie Geelong, Pies, Hawks etc

[Cosmic Wizard]

Mmmm.....let's look at some of the 'list cloggers' from other clubs that we've recruited and turned into good players over the years......

Richards, Mattner, Kennedy, McGlynn, Shaw, Mumford, C Bolton and even Morton and Laidler.

"Absolutely lost the plot"?.....wayyyy too early to call....but feel free to vent.

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Oh dear....'outrage' is in full swing I see. Get over yourselves people and stop attacking the 'outsiders'. They're Swans now......get behind them!

But all your examples are a very long time ago; i.e JPK was trading in to the Swans in 2010?

Please provide me with examples of players we have traded in, in the last few years, who have been a success, Buddy excluded?

Brisbane are a professional outfit, so why would they delist Taylor if he was any good?

The same with Hawthorn, why would they delist Brand if he was any good?

And we seem to be recruiting an awful lot of small forwards, so do we delist Ronke?

You just don't pick up good players any more from another club delisting.

Time will tell!

[Markwebbos]

I don’t mind a long term strategy, but I do take issue that I think we can’t trade more effectively short term and maintain a better win loss finals competitive team

If we are back to 12 wins plus in 2020 i would say then our strategy was acceptable albeit underwhelming

If we are at 8-10 wins in 2020 I think that our rebuilding on the run is completely unacceptable and not up to par to teams that have traded very effectively the last few years ie Geelong, Pies, Hawks etc

Don't think it's fair to judge our strategy on our performance next year. What's important is whether it will have us challenging for a flag in 2021-24 or not?

[Markwebbos]

But all your examples are a very long time ago; i.e JPK was trading in to the Swans in 2010?

Please provide me with examples of players we have traded in, in the last few years, who have been a success, Buddy excluded?

Brisbane are a professional outfit, so why would they delist Taylor if he was any good?

The same with Hawthorn, why would they delist Brand if he was any good?

And we seem to be recruiting an awful lot of small forwards, so do we delist Ronke?

You just don't pick up good players any more from another club delisting.

Time will tell!

You are right, we haven't had a recent success like JPK, but then we also had a trading ban too, and didn't trade in many players for a few years other than Sinkers and Talia. Sinkers turned out OK. Talia might have if he hadn't got seriously injured and busted with drugs.

Jeremy Laidler worked out OK as a DFA. And other clubs have done really well with them e.g. Lyons, Henderson, Robinson, Hamyln.

I'm not sure what happened last year with our DFA collection. Hope this year's crop are better.

[Markwebbos]

A bit of BG to the Menzel delisting.

The cynic in me does wonder if teams deliberately avoid picking players so as NOT to activate triggers.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/it-s-not-a-great-time-of-year-menzel-hopes-for-another-lifeline-20191101-p536g9.html

Menzel, whose contract had a trigger clause for an extra year if he played 10 games in 2019, was told the main reason he was cut by the Swans was that they were going to have a look at the free agency pool to potentially bring in a similar type of player to Menzel.