2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

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  • bloodspirit
    Clubman
    • Apr 2015
    • 4448

    I was fortunate enough to have a chat to Tom Harley this morning at Swans training. I have posted at greater length in the pre-season thread but I'll repeat a couple of points more relevant to this thread here:

    * trade period is overrated; the idea of 'winning' a trade period is nonsensical; the most 'successful' and active teams tend to be those who haven't been very successful on the field recently and who have salary cap space (I assume St Kilda is an example of this). Conversely the most successful teams don't get up to too much: e.g. Richmond, Collingwood, Geelong. While we were panned in the media as having been trade period 'losers' this is not the club's view and they more think we just lost 'the PR battle'.

    * Tom Harley is a little removed from our approach to the draft (and, I infer, recruiting generally). He has a fair awareness of what we are doing and who we are interested in but not too much about the detail.

    * We do feel we are going to get a good player at pick 5 and that they will be significantly better than a player we might select at pick 9.

    * We will bid on Tom Green if he's still available at our pick. We expect GWS to match the bid.

    * We recruited the players we did both because they are good players and because they are relatively seasoned and add some experience to our group.

    * The recruitment of Gray spelled the end for Menzel. We decided that Gray had better exposed form over the past few years than Menzel.

    * We decided not to trade Papley unless we got Daniher (as has already been reporeted in the media - but confirmed by Harley). We were never going to offer pick 5 because we really want to pick up a great young player who will be a part of the nucleus of our side in a few years' time and because, as noted already, we consider pick 5 will give us a significantly better player than pick 9 (contrary to what some media outlets have been reporting).

    * We intend to draft two great Academy players (Gulden and Campbell I assume) next year. We expect them both to be around the first round.

    * We hope that in the not too distant future 6 out of our 10 best players will have come from NSW and this will hopefully help to reduce any 'go home' factor.

    * We are still recovering from the removal of COLA.

    * Gray and Taylor were not recruited specifically to build depth to cover Papley's position. [I didn't ask and Tom didn't comment over whether we will continue to hold on to Papley for the duration of his contract. Likewise, I didn't ask, and Tom didn't comment, about whether we will chase Joe Daniher again next year.] Papley will be expected to deal with his disappointment about not being traded and get on with it.
    All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

    Comment

    • Markwebbos
      Veterans List
      • Jul 2016
      • 7186

      Wow! I’m amazed he was that frank with you. Great information thanks

      Comment

      • Velour&Ruffles
        Regular in the Side
        • Jun 2006
        • 898

        Originally posted by bloodspirit
        I was fortunate enough to have a chat to Tom Harley this morning at Swans training. I have posted at greater length in the pre-season thread but I'll repeat a couple of points more relevant to this thread here:

        * trade period is overrated; the idea of 'winning' a trade period is nonsensical; the most 'successful' and active teams tend to be those who haven't been very successful on the field recently and who have salary cap space (I assume St Kilda is an example of this). Conversely the most successful teams don't get up to too much: e.g. Richmond, Collingwood, Geelong. While we were panned in the media as having been trade period 'losers' this is not the club's view and they more think we just lost 'the PR battle'.

        * Tom Harley is a little removed from our approach to the draft (and, I infer, recruiting generally). He has a fair awareness of what we are doing and who we are interested in but not too much about the detail.

        * We do feel we are going to get a good player at pick 5 and that they will be significantly better than a player we might select at pick 9.

        * We will bid on Tom Green if he's still available at our pick. We expect GWS to match the bid.

        * We recruited the players we did both because they are good players and because they are relatively seasoned and add some experience to our group.

        * The recruitment of Gray spelled the end for Menzel. We decided that Gray had better exposed form over the past few years than Menzel.

        * We decided not to trade Papley unless we got Daniher (as has already been reporeted in the media - but confirmed by Harley). We were never going to offer pick 5 because we really want to pick up a great young player who will be a part of the nucleus of our side in a few years' time and because, as noted already, we consider pick 5 will give us a significantly better player than pick 9 (contrary to what some media outlets have been reporting).

        * We intend to draft two great Academy players (Gulden and Campbell I assume) next year. We expect them both to be around the first round.

        * We hope that in the not too distant future 6 out of our 10 best players will have come from NSW and this will hopefully help to reduce any 'go home' factor.

        * We are still recovering from the removal of COLA.

        * Gray and Taylor were not recruited specifically to build depth to cover Papley's position. [I didn't ask and Tom didn't comment over whether we will continue to hold on to Papley for the duration of his contract. Likewise, I didn't ask, and Tom didn't comment, about whether we will chase Joe Daniher again next year.] Papley will be expected to deal with his disappointment about not being traded and get on with it.
        Great note - thanks. One question - did he say anything about Maibaum? I'm one of the ones who hope strongly that we redraft him and am looking for some clarity.
        My opinion is objective truth in its purest form

        Comment

        • Aprilbr
          Senior Player
          • Oct 2016
          • 1803

          Great info there! I note that Tom Harley has a webinar for Swans members coming up this Thursday. It will be interesting to hear his version of events regarding Daniher and Papley there.

          Still recovering from COLA. Wow. That finished 5 years ago! Perhaps the earlier trade ban had a significant impact too?

          Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
          Last edited by Aprilbr; 4 November 2019, 01:02 PM.

          Comment

          • Markwebbos
            Veterans List
            • Jul 2016
            • 7186

            Looks like I have to get off the #BennellBandwagon

            Harley to train with Demons over summer in bid for third chance - AFL.com.au

            HARLEY Bennell is another step closer to resuming his injury-plagued AFL career with Melbourne after accepting an offer to train with the Demons during the pre-season. The 27-year-old will start training with the Demons in December and is eligible to play in practice and pre-season games.

            "Harley is at the starting line in terms of getting his body prepared for (the) AFL," Mahoney said. "We all know it will be a slow, well-planned program, with many little milestones and potential setbacks, before any thoughts regarding an impact at AFL level. Harley has undergone a new intervention into his calf issues and has committed to some lifestyle changes, and we are confident that he will bring the right attitude to attack the individual program he will be given."

            Comment

            • bloodspirit
              Clubman
              • Apr 2015
              • 4448

              Yeah, MW, I was really thrilled and impressed (and a little surprised) at how forthcoming Tom Harley was when he spoke to me. It was awesome! Not the way the club normally are - whether Horse at a presser or Harley or whoever. Normally it's all very straight bat and by the book and not giving much away. I hope I haven't let him down by posting most of what he said to me - but I doubt it because I presume he wouldn't have told me if it were confidential.

              I didn't discuss Maibaum. (Incidentally, Maibaum was at training.) I meant to ask about Bennell but wound up asking about other things instead, couldn't cover everything and I wasn't sure what things he would be happy to discuss and what not.
              All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

              Comment

              • bloodspirit
                Clubman
                • Apr 2015
                • 4448

                Article quoting Sam Gray's comments re leaving Port Adelaide and coming to the Swans: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...c8ef9b10b9a273. [I'm hoping the issues with posting links to FoxFooty have been fixed. If not, I'm sorry!]
                All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

                Comment

                • Markwebbos
                  Veterans List
                  • Jul 2016
                  • 7186

                  Originally posted by bloodspirit
                  I didn't discuss Maibaum. (Incidentally, Maibaum was at training.) I meant to ask about Bennell but wound up asking about other things instead, couldn't cover everything and I wasn't sure what things he would be happy to discuss and what not.
                  That's a very good sign. Sounds like we'll rookie him and then who knows. According to this article clubs can save $85,000 by doing that.

                  20-year-olds on $500k: How the 'Gold Coast tax' changed the game - AFL.com.au

                  The piece talks about how much power and influence certain player agents have (Connors, TLA etc. Connors are agents for Noah Anderson, Tom Green and Hayden Young amongst others). And how some clubs (Gold Coast in particular) drafted players because they verbally agreed to a contract extension before they were drafted. Which sounds like draft tampering to me!

                  Apparently some first rounders would sign contracts before playing a game that would give them up to $500k in their third and fourth years. I think Aiden Bonar was one of those. Bonkers!

                  From the article:

                  One list boss told AFL.com.au of first-round draft picks: "They are the most overpaid cohort in the competition." Another spoke of how handing over so much to kids in that bracket of the draft went against every other facet of life, where people were rewarded for performance rather than potential.

                  Comment

                  • waswan
                    Senior Player
                    • Oct 2015
                    • 2047

                    AFL need to bring in max contracts based on years served like the NBA

                    A 3rd year player shouldnt be able to demand as much as a 7yr player.

                    A 7yr Max contract should be 10% of Salary cap, all the way down to 3yr at 6%.
                    They should also bring in 4yr Max deal in Free agency with your current club able to offer you a 5yr Deal to ignore free agency

                    Would change alot of the way player movement is handled.

                    Comment

                    • Mel_C
                      Veterans List
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 4470

                      Originally posted by bloodspirit
                      I was fortunate enough to have a chat to Tom Harley this morning at Swans training.
                      That was great reading. It's nice to get some inside info. Thanks Bloodspirit.

                      Comment

                      • Auntie.Gerald
                        Veterans List
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 6480

                        BSpirit

                        mate thanks for the big update

                        great to hear Aiydn Johnson is training with us also......very talented

                        i heard thru the grapevine this was the case.........has alot of upside in the forwards or running off HBF......if he can also become a strong trainer

                        "be tough, only when it gets tough"

                        Comment

                        • MattW
                          Veterans List
                          • May 2011
                          • 4218

                          Originally posted by bloodspirit
                          Article quoting Sam Gray's comments re leaving Port Adelaide and coming to the Swans: AFL, delisted free agency, Sam Gray Sydney, Port Adelaide, Ken Hinkley, trade period, Kaiden Brand, Hawthorn | Fox Sports. [I'm hoping the issues with posting links to FoxFooty have been fixed. If not, I'm sorry!]
                          Cheers. (You're on fire today.)

                          Comment

                          • stevoswan
                            Veterans List
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 8559

                            Found this on youtube....nice little Sam Gray 50 games highlights package from a couple of years ago.

                            Reminds me of someone....

                            Sam Gray 50 game milestone highlights - YouTube

                            Comment

                            • Auntie.Gerald
                              Veterans List
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 6480

                              Aidyn Johnson

                              Aidyn Johnson delisted by Port Adelaide

                              The 21-year-old was officially delisted by Port Adelaide on Thursday after playing 11 games in four seasons with the club at the top level.

                              Johnson was only able to manage the one match in 2019, gathering 12 disposals in the club's round eight match against the Adelaide Crows.

                              While he was unable to make a major impact at the top level, Johnson was a strong performer for the Port Magpies in the SANFL, kicking 42 goals in his 47 apperances.

                              Port Adelaide's general manager of football Chris Davies stressed Johnson had been a strong contributor to the club.

                              “Aidyn has shown signs of what he is capable of throughout his time at the club, and at times this has been of a very high standard,” said Davies.

                              “No doubt he has been frustrated that he couldn’t produce on a more consistent basis, but he has worked hard and we wish him all the best for the future.”
                              "be tough, only when it gets tough"

                              Comment

                              • Beerman
                                Regular in the Side
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 823

                                Fantastic information bloodspirit - worth more than all the articles I read over trade period. I'm very pleased and not surprised that Harley is not that involved in our list management. It's not his job and situations where a CEO gets involved in details of the football department are generally indicative of a club with big problems starting at the top. I think this was a problem at Melbourne during their darkest years. (Or was it North?)

                                Originally posted by bloodspirit
                                [I didn't ask and Tom didn't comment over whether we will continue to hold on to Papley for the duration of his contract. Likewise, I didn't ask, and Tom didn't comment, about whether we will chase Joe Daniher again next year.]
                                Lol! Definitely a case of "questions that won't be answered, don't need to be asked".

                                Comment

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