Pre-season 2020

[bloodspirit]

136 to 168 contested possessions

Hmmm

Which way?

[waswan]

On paper we are a good side, the worrying part is how a team with that many good names cant beat a team of no names.

I wont start the coach bashing early but they do have

Kennedy Parker Mills Heeney
Rampe Alir Papley Lloyd All proven

Blakey Rowbottom Naismith Taylor Gray Floreant Hayward Dawson Brand Harry All nearly proven AFL quality, some closer than others

Stephens Mccartin Gould Warner exciting young prospects

Then injured from the 22 Buddy Reid Melican

Its not the best list but its good enough to play finals

I hope we can get the most of of them

[Mark26]

Looking back over the past couple of drafts, it's concerning when half of our top draft picks are nowhere to be seen in these preseason matches.

For me, last year's draft is too early to tell, so I'll leave Stephens and co. alone. From the 2017 draft, McCartin (pick 33) looks likely, but Ling (pick 14) and Stoddart (pick 53) don't get a match. From the 2018 draft, Blakey (pick 10) and Rowbottom (pick 25) are in, but McInerney (pick 44) doesn't get a second game. Foot (pick 51) is nowhere to be seen either.

I know there have been injuries, which are well documented, especially with Ling, but there is a whole lot of pace to burn with those players I mentioned who haven't taken their chance yet, whatever the reason.

I trust the coaches and medical staff and know there had to be good reasons for their omission. I desperately want them to crack into the side and think if they were firing, our midfield would look pretty different.

[bloodspirit]

It's hard to know what to make of the Marsh series and what it means for teams' seasons, especially when you look at the 'ladder', if anything: The 2020 Marsh Series ladder: Who's on top, who's got work to do. We're on the bottom but there were 6 other winless teams including Richmond, Geelong and West Coast. Conversely, the teams that finished last and second last last year finished 2nd and 3rd and the 4th and 5th positions were taken by St Kilda and Fremantle. Still finishing last and, more worrisomely, suffering the biggest loss, can't be positives.

I guess, a positive, if there is one, is that at least we're not peaking at the wrong end of the season, which I can't help feeling could be the case for Gold Coast and Melbourne.

[MattW]

Watched John's press conference, and he mentioned the team not playing for four quarters. It feels like he's been saying that after most losses for a few years now. And it's true, the team seems unable to maintain intensity for a full game.

Yesterday, the effort seemed to drop off in the third quarter - like one good quarter was enough.

Is it fitness, desire, leadership? Have they forgotten what it's like to play for the win?

We need the likes of Heeney, Florent, Hayward (a particular offender) to keep playing hard all game. In fairness to Heeney, it was his first game of the year yesterday.

Anyway, another two weeks on the track to summon it.

[Ralph Dawg]

For the last few seasons, we have struggled with consistency. Not just within an actual match, but over the course of a season. Players seem to play well enough not to warrant demotion but not well enough to actually win a game. Many of the guys look ok but as a team, there seems to be insufficient cohesion to win consistently.

I understand it's only trials and perhaps we are building for an unexpected breakout year. However, if we continue with this pattern, there may be some hard decisions made about some of our guys at the end of the year.

[barracuda]

For the last few seasons, we have struggled with consistency. Not just within an actual match, but over the course of a season. Players seem to play well enough not to warrant demotion but not well enough to actually win a game. Many of the guys look ok but as a team, there seems to be insufficient cohesion to win consistently.

I understand it's only trials and perhaps we are building for an unexpected breakout year. However, if we continue with this pattern, there may be some hard decisions made about some of our guys at the end of the year.

Young players are notoriously inconsistent. It often takes 4 or 5 solid pre-seasons to get the stamina to maintain the intensity. The swans face the same challenge every club that is re-building does. Do you continue to develop young players until they get the stamina or churn and burn every year. The problem with the churn and burn is that you can end up on a cycle of constantly bringing in young players who need development or you bring in ok older players like grey, lewis, brand, thurlow, clarke, menzel etc.

I think the swans now have a solid crop of young talent ranging all the way from mills and heeney down to harry reynolds and foote. Yes they need to fine tune every year and pick up elite draft picks like campbell, but at it's core they need to establish a culture and a playing list that is able to sustainably move into the premiership window in 3 years time.

[TheBloods]

As always, some good signs yesterday and some concerning signs, and as per, they mostly involved the midfield. I thought Kennedy's game was simply brilliant, though I am wary as David King, for all his blatant barracking, accurately noted that North's most glaring issue is their inability to shut down opposition mids. Like Bontempelli the week before. I hope it's more a sign of a champion winding back the clock this year, more so than a champion being allowed to do as he pleases in a pointless match.

There's a very obvious lack of connection with the mids, which is understandable. Kennedy and Parker have played nearly 200 games together over a span of eight years. Florent and Rowbottom were barely in the same midfield group last year and are now entering their second year as a 'partnership', if you can call it that. Stephens and Taylor on the wings have never played with any of them. This goes a long way to explaining why there appears to be no understanding of what all five mids are doing at any given moment.

But I thought all four of those newer faces put in good showings. Rowbottom is a joy to watch, the tenacity he shows as a second-year player is rare, but has great awareness when to find a team mate and when to attack as well. Taylor just kept moving, seemed energised to impact at every contest possible and tried some different things, including a nice side step around his opponent and arching the back to get himself in the clear. Florent is finally displaying the kind of physical pressure you want to see in a midfielder, though I still have some doubts about his ability to consistently find the footy. He was very good yesterday, but only had 13 possessions.

I would go with Stephens for round 1. He may or may not be ready, but what's clear is that he offers two things that no one waiting in the wings seems ready to offer - a turn of pace and clean foot skills. If there was Clarke, McInerney, Foot, Wicks, or even Stoddart putting pressure on his spot, it may be a different story. But there's not, so Dyl makes the flight to Adelaide for mine.

I was disappointed in quite a few of the performances yesterday. I barely noticed Gray after a good showing the week before. Parker was sluggish after looking spritely the week before. Cunningham didn't get as involved, same with O'Riordan. It's possible they both got overshadowed by the inclusions of Lloyd and Mills, who both got a lot of it playing similar roles. I was underwhelmed by the overall Marsh series of Blakey, Sinclair, Hayward, Dawson and McCartin. A few of these guys I saw training in the flesh and during match sim getting very involved and looking really lively, they appeared prime to hit the ground running at the first taste of the real stuff, but never really got off the ground in either matches. The most concerning part is that it will only get more challenging to find form once the season proper begins.

As a side note, Mills and Papley carried on their form from the bushfire match and I really hope they become genuine stars this year. Having a strong anchor in our back half and a prolific scorer in our forward half will go a long way to helping us in Buddy and McVeigh's absence.

Naismith and Heeney made it through their returns injury-free and that's all that matters. They'll build as the season progresses, and we already saw glimpses yesterday of how Naismith can help our evolving midfield.

[Aprilbr]

I tend to agree with Barracuda. We have little choice but to gradually rebuild our list from here. I woukd argue that we started our rebuild 2 seasons ago when we traded Hanners.

We have relative stability in our coaching and playing list so that should help. No magic bullets here. There are some really talented and promising players on our list but there are also huge gaps there as well. Our midfield, lack of capacity to win enough contested ball and capacity to provide sufficient inside 50 opportunities for our forwards are huge weaknesses.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[bloodspirit]

I strongly agree with barracuda, and I also agree with TheBloods.

I feel better about yesterday's performance after actually watching the game. I don't think we were trying that hard to win it. It was more about competing harder than we did the week before and we did (albeit not for long enough, and against weaker opposition). But, as barracuda says, you have to expect that with such a young and inexperienced list. That wil apply both in matches and over a season. I think that North's experience and seasoned bodies carried the day for them.

We ran the the young ones, Florent and Rowbottom, in the midfield most of the game and then, when we took them out later in the match, we replaced them with young fringe players (Clarke, Amartey, Ronke - not sure, did McInerney get a run? If he did, I didn't notice him). So, while we don't have a lot of players to come in, we were also using the opportunity to trial stuff and expose the youngsters to the level.

Other comments:

* JPK excellent. Lewy Taylor very handy. Rowbottom was fantastic and sustained his efforts all game long. Florent continues to develop and spent a fair bit more time on the inside and he is a very handy inside player thanks to his great speed and skills.

* Aliir was very good, both intercepting and spoiling and also offensively, rebounding.

* Naismith's tap work is definitely superior. He had the wood on Goldstein whereas Goldstein smashed Sinclair. I also noticed Naismith throwing his body around a bit in the first half and trying to bring a more physical/enforcer aspect to his play. Happily, he did not get injured and played out most of the game before being replaced by Amartey. Amartey did not do much to give me confidence he will still be on the list next year.

* Rampe had a poor game, I thought (haven't seen any stats). Least impressive showing for a while but his first run after injury interrupted his pre-season and he'll be better for the run. I wasn't that impressed with Lloyd either, but then he often flies under the radar and I might have missed his contribution.

* I thought McCartin and COR both did ok. McCartin clunked a couple of good contested marks. I thought Harry C was also went alright.

* I am an advocate for Stephens playing round 1. Depending on who else is playing, possibly at the expense of COR. I like COR but Stephens has a bigger future and we have to start getting games into him. He's already improving and adjusting to AFL tempo. He will need to make his tackles more effective. At the moment it's too easy for his opponents to stand in the tackle and get rid of the ball.

* I think that having lost 'the big 4' retirees over the off season, it hurts more to be missing Buddy and Reid, two of our other most experienced players. Hewett's return to the team will also help. We don't have the depth of other teams (GWS, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Richmond etc.) to cope with many injuries.

* Blakey was quiet but I am happy to back him in. He was often quiet last year too, just having flashes of excitement where he really put things together.

* Here's hoping the likes of Gould, Warner, Ling, Stoddart and McInerney can come along quickly in the NEAFL and start to demand a spot (or at least be ready to cover injuries). Also wondering what's happened to Bell?

* I think that next draft we need to address our KPP depth. We seem to be a bit light on, after accruing an abundance of small forwards and speedy halfbacks. I wonder if McLean is any chance of getting games as a forward and relieving ruck this year? I guess at the moment he is coming back from his foot injury and by the time he's ready Buddy and Reid will be back. But you never know.


For North they have a number of promising youngsters: Larkey, Zurhaar, Tarrant, Taylor. They were all terrific and look like they could have good careers. Majak Daw was also terrific, playing a similar game to Aliir but with greater physical presence. Not as good as Aliir offensively and by foot.

[barry]

Watched John's press conference, and he mentioned the team not playing for four quarters. It feels like he's been saying that after most losses for a few years now. And it's true, the team seems unable to maintain intensity for a full game.

Yesterday, the effort seemed to drop off in the third quarter - like one good quarter was enough.

Is it fitness, desire, leadership? Have they forgotten what it's like to play for the win?

We need the likes of Heeney, Florent, Hayward (a particular offender) to keep playing hard all game. In fairness to Heeney, it was his first game of the year yesterday.

Anyway, another two weeks on the track to summon it.

I wouldnt worry to much about Horse's reasons for losing.
You lose a game for any of these reasons
1) Not 4 quarter effort
2) Poor execution of skills/decision making
3) Played a better side.

Thats pretty much it. Sometimes its all 3. You could be the best side or a @@@@ side, doesnt matter. GWS had a great year last year, but had a shocker in the grand final which ticked all 3 boxes emphatically.
Dont dwell on it.

[redunderthebed]

It's just not good enough to perform so poorly in the pre season. They have to have the attitude to WIN all games. Horse shouldn't be trialing players with less than two weeks to the start of the season. GWS are a super team but to lose by that margin is a disgrace. Inexcusable and gutless. Norf? They are a very ordinary team that, at times, made us look like kids in the wrong division.
A couple of thoughts
. McCartin!! A big lump that really needs to do more than get two grabs and a couple of spoils. How long will he take to make it?? Hard to see him ever being a key player.
.Heeney. I am sick of hearing how he is so bloody skilled and talented. Show us CONSISTENTLY !! No, forget the injuries. He does not show consistent class.
. Coaching. Get some mongrel! Horse, Kenneally, Kirk were good players but are better suited for making speeches at fetes. Get a Rhys Shaw or Maxfield. Real dog fighters and teach our young players to be tough not latte drinking Maroubra pretty boys.
. And please, harvest Kennedy's heart and share it with the rest of the team. This guy NEVER plays a bad game. Trial or not.

[bloodspirit]

High quality write up of the game from a high quality website I only discovered a little while back: Marsh Series - Kangaroos v Swans - The Mongrel Punt.

This description of Rowbottom's game was a highlight:

[A]t stoppages around the ground, John Longmire gave James Rowbottom the job of stopping Ben Cunnington.
In his second season, it was a huge ask for Rowbottom, as evidenced by Cunnington’s six first-half clearances, but at points, the Sydney youngster seemed to relish the hunt.
Cunnington is a monster, and though I am sure the attention at stoppages annoyed him, he didn’t appear to be taking things too seriously (no rib-ticklers for Rowbottom) but for the Swans, this was a valuable lesson for one of their emerging players in terms of what it takes to play on-ball against one of the best in the game.
At half time, Rowbottom had a handful of tackles – most of them trying to limit Cunners, who played the role of teacher in this one, and Rowbottom was eager to learn.

By the bye, Stuey Maxfield is part of our coaching group - he plays the role of opposition analyst. I guess that's the role either he is most interested in or the club figure he is best suited to.

[707]

After Hobart will R1 look like this?

B: Mills, Rampe, Aliir
HB: Dawson, Brand, Lloyd
C: Florent, Kennedy, Cunningham
HF: Blakey, McCartin, Hayward
F: Gray, Naismith, Papley
Foll: Sinclair, Parker, Heeney

Int: (from) O'Riordan, Hewett, Taylor, Rowbotton, Stephens, that's 4 of this 5? Blakey & Hayward are the two in the 18 who could be under pressure? Gray done enough? If Buddy is available who goes out? Lots of questions

[stevoswan]

It's just not good enough to perform so poorly in the pre season. They have to have the attitude to WIN all games. Horse shouldn't be trialing players with less than two weeks to the start of the season. GWS are a super team but to lose by that margin is a disgrace. Inexcusable and gutless. Norf? They are a very ordinary team that, at times, made us look like kids in the wrong division.
A couple of thoughts
. McCartin!! A big lump that really needs to do more than get two grabs and a couple of spoils. How long will he take to make it?? Hard to see him ever being a key player.
.Heeney. I am sick of hearing how he is so bloody skilled and talented. Show us CONSISTENTLY !! No, forget the injuries. He does not show consistent class.
. Coaching. Get some mongrel! Horse, Kenneally, Kirk were good players but are better suited for making speeches at fetes. Get a Rhys Shaw or Maxfield. Real dog fighters and teach our young players to be tough not latte drinking Maroubra pretty boys.
. And please, harvest Kennedy's heart and share it with the rest of the team. This guy NEVER plays a bad game. Trial or not.

I agree with your last point....the rest? Really? We may revisit this post later in the season.