2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[gloveski]

I sure hope so as we are banking on him as the future of our midfield. He needs to be getting around the 30 possession mark every week in his prime. 9 possessions against the blue baggers. He has long way to go. Hope he gets there, been impressed with him this yr.

Yeah my only concern is he is undersized for the role we want him to play hopefully he can bulk up in time without loosing his speed


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[707]

Pick 4 consolidating :-)

[Markwebbos]

I think the return of JPK has been a factor in Sir James' reduction in output. I presume because he's now playing a different role (defensive rather than offensive?) at stoppages

[Nico]

The key to centre clearance are rabbits, not bulls.

Yes, at last some sanity. Players who have leg speed and prepared to make a beeline for the footy rather than blocking and holding. Bulls are slow, rabbits are quick and get the ball moving. Our model is outdated.

[Nico]

Happy to trade Papley for De Koning and a pick.

So Paps has a few down weeks and we have dropped off him. De Koning is going nowhere. Carlton supporters are all over him on radio this morning. Anyone would think it is the second coming. Wait until we get back Franklin and Heeney and see how Papley goes, or better still some quality delivery into the forward line.

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I think I see what you’re saying, not sure I entirely agree. I would say a good combination of the two is ideal. Rabbits are good when the tap is good and clean. Bulls are good when it isn’t. Often you need the Bull to get the ball out to a rabbit.

We look to have a few good young rabbits on the list ( or soon to be on the list like the academy pair) in Blakey , Florent, Stephens, but only one good young Bull prospect in Rowbottom. Maybe Warner but haven’t seen enough to I suggest he’ll make it. Could argue Mills potentially too but I think we need to accept JL loves him too much in defence to ever pull the trigger permanently on a midfield move. I wonder if Mccartin moving down back helps release Mills, once he and Rampe return?


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But our bulls haven't been getting it out to our rabbits for decades. The last gun centre clearance player we had was Paul Kelly.

[Melbourne_Blood]

So Paps has a few down weeks and we have dropped off him. De Koning is going nowhere. Carlton supporters are all over him on radio this morning. Anyone would think it is the second coming. Wait until we get back Franklin and Heeney and see how Papley goes, or better still some quality delivery into the forward line.

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But our bulls haven't been getting it out to our rabbits for decades. The last gun centre clearance player we had was Paul Kelly.

What about Joey in his prime ?


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[mcs]

Rowbottom seems to have hit the wall in recent weeks, but not entirely unexpected. While his output has dropped off a bit, I'm not that worried to be honest. Compared to the 2nd year blues of Blakey, he has had a good overall season and will only build from here.

We need to find a buddy for him though that can develop alongside him however.

[TheBloods]

Rowbottom seems to have hit the wall in recent weeks, but not entirely unexpected. While his output has dropped off a bit, I'm not that worried to be honest. Compared to the 2nd year blues of Blakey, he has had a good overall season and will only build from here.

We need to find a buddy for him though that can develop alongside him however.

Is Florent not supposed to be that buddy ?

[dejavoodoo44]

He’s a bit more nimble than your average Bull I guess but his contested work and tackling is Bull like.


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Yes, and although Rowbottom doesn't appear to be that big, he's actually bigger than Parker.

[aardvark]

So Paps has a few down weeks and we have dropped off him.[COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[

I still rate Papley. I just want something good for him if he still wants to go.

[mcs]

Is Florent not supposed to be that buddy ?

Perhaps the club thinks he can play that role - but he isn't a natural in and under midfielder. He has shown at times an ability to be effective in that sort of role this season, but I think he adds significant value as an outside midfielder, that is likely to be more valuable then what he would offer if he was just an inside midfielder only.

I think we definitely have room for one more midfidler that is more of an inside midfielder then an all round midfielder, especially as we all know the end is coming with Kennedy. We know the two midfielders we will get through the academy can play inside, but their versatility to play both midfield and half forward means they are probably not the answer either.

[TheBloods]

Perhaps the club thinks he can play that role - but he isn't a natural in and under midfielder. He has shown at times an ability to be effective in that sort of role this season, but I think he adds significant value as an outside midfielder, that is likely to be more valuable then what he would offer if he was just an inside midfielder only.

I think we definitely have room for one more midfidler that is more of an inside midfielder then an all round midfielder, especially as we all know the end is coming with Kennedy. We know the two midfielders we will get through the academy can play inside, but their versatility to play both midfield and half forward means they are probably not the answer either.

What is the answer then? We can draft an inside midfielder, but like Rowbottom, we then have to wait 4-5 years for them to develop. Not entirely convinced that is the correct course of action.

[Ludwig]

Ling, Stoddart, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney, Stephens, Warner, Campbell, Gulden = 9 midfielders who I rate will make it at AFL level in the 4 drafts from 2017-2020. Only Blakey and Rowbottom are clear best 22 at this point. We still have so many players, especially midfielders, to develop and push for senior selection. It's too early to know how it will all pan out, but I think the weight of numbers alone says we have a lot of midfielders. All these players have good pace, some being very quick.

We haven't had the stability of a reliable ruckman to develop a clearance strategy around. A lot was lost when Naismith went down with his 2nd ACL, after training up with Sam as the centrepiece of our midfield. We need to solve this problem. I think the rest will fall into place if we can get this done.

[mcs]

What is the answer then? We can draft an inside midfielder, but like Rowbottom, we then have to wait 4-5 years for them to develop. Not entirely convinced that is the correct course of action.

Your the one that doesn't agree... what is your answer to your own question?
After all you've written off a host of our players as no good at various times this year so you are the oracle in this space....

And I disagree we have to wait 4 or 5 years for them to be able to play a sufficient role in the team. Especially if they are taken early in the draft (I.e. the cream of the crop from any given year), which we probably will be in a position to do so this year, if that is what they wanted to do. You've highlighted plenty of examples of midfielders of recent years that are making very significant contributions in their 1st,2nd,3rd year. The key for mine is having enough to share the load capably between them - and to give options. Perhaps we have enough options all around as it is, as ludwig suggests - but my opinions is that we are still one short in that regard.

I'm all for trading for an established midfielder that can plug the gap and fits the right age profile as such, or targeting a free agent. But I don't see who is out there that obviously fits that profile.

[mcs]

Ling, Stoddart, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney, Stephens, Warner, Campbell, Gulden = 9 midfielders who I rate will make it at AFL level in the 4 drafts from 2017-2020. Only Blakey and Rowbottom are clear best 22 at this point. We still have so many players, especially midfielders, to develop and push for senior selection. It's too early to know how it will all pan out, but I think the weight of numbers alone says we have a lot of midfielders. All these players have good pace, some being very quick.

We haven't had the stability of a reliable ruckman to develop a clearance strategy around. A lot was lost when Naismith went down with his 2nd ACL, after training up with Sam as the centrepiece of our midfield. We need to solve this problem. I think the rest will fall into place if we can get this done.

I said earlier in this thread that I'd be happy to see us take a serious punt on a ruckman in the draft - or try to trade for someone of course. It could quickly make a big difference. Or a big proper key forward/ruck (Is it McDonald in WA that has been doing very well) if a standout is available when we draft. We've struggled whatever strategy we use in recent years for ruckman, but it is a key gap.

But what I don't see in that group of midfielders (While several will make it, I still have some question marks around the first 2 in the list in particular) is a lot of in and under grunt. The game is very different to what it once was (i.e. ideally you need lots of all round skilled midfielders) but I still think we haven't quite got succession planning quite worked out yet.