2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Markwebbos]

I think we just dropped out of the race. There were always several factors playing into the value of JD. I'm not sure we really wanted JD last year, but played along, tied the JD trade to Papley, let it fall through, so in the end we kept Papley using JD as a link that didn't really have to be there. It didn't even seem like we made a play for Daniher this year.


I don't think we heard anything new from Charlie G on trade radio.

• He admitted that the Swans play their card close to the chest.
• He said our main trade target was to get a backup for Sinclair. I don't know if the wording was diplomatic, or we were really looking for just a backup, not a #1 ruckman.
• We are in the market for another key forward, but only if a good deal pops up. I guess Hogan and Cameron were not considered favourable. I think this holds for the ruckman as well. A small vote of confidence for Amartey and McLean.
• It seems that we are content enough to go forward with our current hand, unless the conditions suit a trade.
• This makes sense, as we have a young and largely untested list. We can use another year to develop and test a slew of players that didn't get an opportunity this year, in part due to COVID.

I wish they’d asked him, given our need for a KPF, why we haven’t seriously pursued: Daniher, Cameron, Brown, Hogan etc. And about other possible ruck targets...

Missed opportunity.

[Syd76]

Jason McCartney says GWS are looking into Hogan but yet to make a decision ... so not sure it’s a fait accompli yet.

Although they may just be waiting until after Cameron-aggedon to make their move.

it is now

[Ludwig]

The only ones who didn't get a game last year were the Budmeister and the Gouldmeister. The rookies who missed out have all been delisted.

I don't think a few games constitutes an adequate test. We did blood a lot of players, but it will take some time to see how a fair chunk of our list goes for the longer term. I'm even including more experienced players like Ronke, O'Riordan, Melican, Brand, Clarke and Thurlow. It's more looking down the road toward 2022 onward.


I think we are reluctant to go heavily into the trade market given the incredible drop in value for players like Hogan and Ben Brown.

[Swanny79]

Yep not sure why the question wasn’t raised about McCartin. Don’t see any potential long/medium term KPF on the list, factoring in T McCartin playing as KPD

[bloodspirit]

Hickey looking like a nearly done thing? I retract my unfair potato comments of a few pages back. Think he will relish the number one ruck position if he can snare it and should come cheap in a trade.

clap:

Nice one 707. I'm going to listen to the interview with Gardiner now. 3 years seems a lot for Hickey. Also would make more sense if we are going to get him for free in terms of picks than if we have to trade for him.

My feeling is we are going to sign P. McCartin.

[Syd76]

clap:

Nice one 707. I'm going to listen to the interview with Gardiner now. 3 years seems a lot for Hickey. Also would make more sense if we are going to get him for free in terms of picks than if we have to trade for him.

My feeling is we are going to sign P. McCartin.

I think Hickey may well be another Paul "Torture" Chambers (remember him - a steal for pick 35 ?) I don't think he is an upgrade on Sinclair... this is his 3rd club.

Agree with the sentiment in getting in Paddy McCartin. Would well be worth to take a punt on if his head issues are given the all clear by medicos. Though I think he wants to stay in and around Melbourne as his GF is there.

[bloodspirit]

Just had a listen to Charlie Gardiner. What I took away:

* we are interested in "another scoring option" to "bolster our scoring ability" - I noticed this was not necessarily being limited to KPFs and so I wonder whether we would consider Stephenson? Until now I have imagined we would only be interested in KPFs and we would pass on other options because we have enough similar players. Anything to suggest Stephenson would consider leaving Victoria? I think he's a huge talent and would be worth considering, although hard to see how he we could pay for him trade wise. If he's a salary dump maybe he'd come cheap in trade terms?;

* the Aliir thing is not totally off the table from what I could tell, albeit it may well not go anywhere. I think if Port were willing to give up Ladhams or Lycett maybe we'd consider trading Aliir. Acknowledgment that Aliir would prefer to play in defence and we prefer to play him "at half back" as well; "we think he's a really damaging intercept mark and key defender" and we want to "settle him down back";

* we're looking for "an established ruckman" therefore Hickey is one of a few rucks we're considering. Hickey is open to the trade and we've obviously talked to him already;

* everyone is expecting an update to the soft cap and list size situation, hopefully before the trade period begins on Wednesday. It's unpleasant for the players whose futures are in limbo;

* "We'd like to go to the draft with pick 3... we'd like to improve our draft hand if we can... still a fair way to go... can trade selections up until the start of the draft";

* Some uncertainty drafting Victorian kids because they are the only ones with no exposed form;

* the big issue with Buddy seems to be his fitness. It seems he's currently a long way off and there seem to be some question marks about when he's going to play again.

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting to read Nathan Buckley quickly deny claims that he told Treloar that the other senior players wanted him gone but not say anything further. While I believe Buckley, what wasn't said speaks volumes. The silence continues to deafen on that front. Really horrible situation for Treloar. Cannot be helping his mental health at all.

[stevoswan]

I think we just dropped out of the race. There were always several factors playing into the value of JD. I'm not sure we really wanted JD last year, but played along, tied the JD trade to Papley, let it fall through, so in the end we kept Papley using JD as a link that didn't really have to be there. It didn't even seem like we made a play for Daniher this year.

I think this is on the money......JD came to us, we got a little excited at first that a player many see as a gun wanted to come to us, a la Buddy. Then the reality of his injury history and his salary set in as did the 'let's play along' scenario, using him (and Dodoro) to avoid trading Paps. Well played by the Swans IMO.....

[bloodspirit]

Great in-depth review of Errol Gulden, comparing him with another similar player (Jake Bowey): Marquee Matchups: Jake Bowey vs. Errol Gulden - Aussie Rules Draft Central.

And something similar for Braeden Campbell: Marquee Matchups: Braeden Campbell vs. Corey Durdin - Aussie Rules Draft Central.

[stevoswan]

My feeling is we are going to sign P. McCartin.

Yes please Swans......DO IT!

[Markwebbos]

I think this is on the money......JD came to us, we got a little excited at first that a player many see as a gun wanted to come to us, a la Buddy. Then the reality of his injury history and his salary set in as did the 'let's play along' scenario, using him (and Dodoro) to avoid trading Paps. Well played by the Swans IMO.....

I actually think it was meant to be another Buddy deal, that is, he was always supposed to come to us this year, but he stuffed the whole thing up by going public last year. Which opened him up to other suitors. We'll never know how concerned the Swans are about his injury history | durability. But if Brisbane can get him playing regularly then he's an absolute steal.

[stevoswan]

I actually think it was meant to be another Buddy deal, that is, he was always supposed to come to us this year, but he stuffed the whole thing up by going public last year. Which opened him up to other suitors. We'll never know how concerned the Swans are about his injury history | durability. But if Brisbane can get him playing regularly then he's an absolute steal.

It'll hurt a bit for sure if this happens but for now, I think we've done the right thing avoiding him. Time will indeed tell.....

[Thunder Shaker]

Just had a listen to Charlie Gardiner. What I took away:

* we are interested in "another scoring option" to "bolster our scoring ability" - I noticed this was not necessarily being limited to KPFs and so I wonder whether we would consider Stephenson? Until now I have imagined we would only be interested in KPFs and we would pass on other options because we have enough similar players. Anything to suggest Stephenson would consider leaving Victoria? I think he's a huge talent and would be worth considering, although hard to see how he we could pay for him trade wise. If he's a salary dump maybe he'd come cheap in trade terms?;

* the Aliir thing is not totally off the table from what I could tell, albeit it may well not go anywhere. I think if Port were willing to give up Ladhams or Lycett maybe we'd consider trading Aliir. Acknowledgment that Aliir would prefer to play in defence and we prefer to play him "at half back" as well; "we think he's a really damaging intercept mark and key defender" and we want to "settle him down back";

* we're looking for "an established ruckman" therefore Hickey is one of a few rucks we're considering. Hickey is open to the trade and we've obviously talked to him already;

* everyone is expecting an update to the soft cap and list size situation, hopefully before the trade period begins on Wednesday. It's unpleasant for the players whose futures are in limbo;

* "We'd like to go to the draft with pick 3... we'd like to improve our draft hand if we can... still a fair way to go... can trade selections up until the start of the draft";

* Some uncertainty drafting Victorian kids because they are the only ones with no exposed form;

* the big issue with Buddy seems to be his fitness. It seems he's currently a long way off and there seem to be some question marks about when he's going to play again.

A good summary. The AFL website had another summary on Trade Talk where "rucks and forwards" were cited as the recruitment priorities. Hickey was mentioned.

[SwanSand]

I actually think it was meant to be another Buddy deal, that is, he was always supposed to come to us this year, but he stuffed the whole thing up by going public last year. Which opened him up to other suitors. We'll never know how concerned the Swans are about his injury history | durability. But if Brisbane can get him playing regularly then he's an absolute steal.

What is the point of bringing a KPF that is going to cost a lot if we are not in contention for the flag? In 2012 and following years we were contention and rightly paid overs for Buddy, Tippett etc.
Now we are atleast 2- 3 years away from contending.
It makes sense not to pursue dud investments when you need to first shore up some nice investments with excellent draft hand.

[bloodspirit]

I've mentioned that I think the three players we are most likely to use our pick 3 on are Logan McDonald, Elijah Hollands and Riley Thilthorpe. I think they are all sensational prospects, with Logan McDonald probably the pick of the bunch. I thought it would be convenient to create a table showing how the different pundits have rated them in one place.

Well, I tried inserting a table. It looked fine when I 'previewed' it - but then looked like junk after I posted it. So I will have to explain it instead. There are three sets of rankings taken from AFL Draft Central (October), Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide (October edition) and Chris Doerre's rankings (September edition). They rank the players respectively as follows:

Logan McDonald (196 cm, 86 kg): 3, 2, 2

Elijah Hollands (188 cm, 80 kg): 2, 3, 4

Riley Thilthorpe (201 cm, 100 kg): 6, 4, 6


I couldn't think of what other rankings are out there but I think I have probably missed some that are worth paying attention to - can anyone point to more?

Both Hollands and Thilthorpe unfortunately have fitness questions - Hollands did his ACL last year and was unable to play footy this year (even if Covid had permitted); Thilthorpe seems to have ongoing and recurring groin issues. I will be pretty chuffed if we draft any of these. The amazing thing is that both McDonald and Thilthorpe seem pretty close to ready to play given they have both been playing this season with grown ups in the WAFL and SANFL (although that wasn't enough for Gould). They are both also noted as having great tanks. In Thilthrope's case this enables him to be able to play on the ball and relieve very effectively in the ruck.