2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[bloodspirit]

Gold Coast have a priority pick at the start of the second round in next year's draft that they are not allowed to trade.

Thanks Thunder Shaker.

[gloveski]

That's exciting! I'd do that deal. I know next year's meant to be a stronger draft, but mostly that means it's deeper rather than necessarily better top end talent. Plus I'm backing us to finish better than 13th next season. Pick 6 this year could get us Tanner Bruhn, or possibly even Thilthorpe depending on how things go. We'd have to wait and do it as a live trade on the night to be sure (a) we don't burn the pick matching a bid for Campbell (unlikely - only Hawthorn could bid on him and I don't think they will); and (b) that way we'll know for sure who we can get. Gold Coast are guaranteed two good players in this years draft already and are overflowing in young talent and it could suit them to push their pick to next year. Two questions:

1. Are Gold Coast allowed to trade that pick? I remember reading they have a pick that they are not allowed to trade. I suspect it's not pick 5 because that's the one they "earned" through their finish on the table. But it was a relatively high pick and I don't think they have any other first rounders.

2. Why would Gold Coast do that trade? Wouldn't someone else be able to offer them a more attractive pick swap e.g. North or Adelaide or even Hawthorn - all of whom will probably finish below us next year but need more players this year more than we do.

Gold Coast will want minimal picks this year and would probably prefer a first rounder in next years draft . They would be banking on us finishing in the bottom couple , we’re Sydney would be banking on a us climbing some spots next year with the senior experience returning . Considering the close games we lost last year why not take the punt . North , Adelaide I couldn’t see trading their first round next year but Gawks might be a possibility.

The rebuild could happen very fast if you bring in 2 top 10 talents as well as Campbell (who is also top 10) as well as Gulden . Reminds me a little like the Port rebuild .

Pie in the sky but something like this doesn’t really matter who gets picked we’re in the scenario below but Sydney might do this if they get a chance of a midfielder and a Tall out of the dubbed fab five

Pick 1 Adelaide Tilthorpe
Pick 2 North MacDonald
Pick 3 Sydney bid on JUH that bulldogs match
Pick 4 Sydney Phillips
Pick 5 hawks bid on Campbell that the swans match
Pick 6 hawks Hollands
Pick 7 DGB (swans trade future first round for Gold Coasts pick 7 )


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[giant]

I was confident Fox would be retained......I agree that after his 2020 season, he is stiff to be let go.

Think many of us agree - he did some stalwart service for us in 2020 in extremely difficult circumstances and this doesn't feel like the right reward. It is a ruthless business these days.

[Steve]

That's exciting! I'd do that deal. I know next year's meant to be a stronger draft, but mostly that means it's deeper rather than necessarily better top end talent. Plus I'm backing us to finish better than 13th next season. Pick 6 this year could get us Tanner Bruhn, or possibly even Thilthorpe depending on how things go. We'd have to wait and do it as a live trade on the night to be sure (a) we don't burn the pick matching a bid for Campbell (unlikely - only Hawthorn could bid on him and I don't think they will); and (b) that way we'll know for sure who we can get. Gold Coast are guaranteed two good players in this years draft already and are overflowing in young talent and it could suit them to push their pick to next year.

Absolutely - I think that would actually be a great deal for both teams.

Gold Coast have so much young talent having come through in the last couple of years, it would benefit them to push back a 1st round pick another year to spread things out a bit. Can't be bothered checking but assume they still have their 1st round pick for 2021, which gives them even more leverage in a strong draft.

Agree they would have other suiters, but I reckon we're a good fit as they would want a team they are pretty confident will be bottom-half next year, but we'd be bullish enough to think we're not going to finish in the bottom few (whereas teams like North might be wary about trading their first 2021 pick if it may well be one of the top couple of picks).

It's better for us to get another top pick this year rather than wait another 12 months, regardless of where our 2021 pick would be and how strong the draft is. To get arguably 3 x top-5 picks in the one draft to add to our impressive young squad would be amazing.

I think we could lock in the deal with Gold Coast but agree to wait until Hawthorn picks before formalising it - even if Hawthorn bids for Campbell (I reckon unlikely) we could still match with the other picks and then trade for pick 5 as their selection comes up.

[Markwebbos]

I like the idea of going for broke this year. And doing the deal with GCS

[Velour&Ruffles]

Completely agree with all the sympathy for Fox. I thought he was good last year - not serviceable, not just improved, but actually good.

I feel a bit sorry for Thurlow too, but of the two I'd have kept Fox.

[The Runner]

Fox wasn't a list clogger by any stretch, and deserves a spot on a competitive list. However, him staying will mean Gould or Ling don't get the games they need. It's not a popular call, but in 2 years it will be the right one hopefully.

[lwjoyner]

Meg thanks for the clarification on my ? re list sizes. I have one other ? Bell, McLean and Amerty. Are they still on the rookie list or have they been promoted, I think they are all contracted? If they are still on rookie list can we keep them there for 2021, if not does it mean others need to be delisted (still waiting on ETaylor I guess.)
Thanks once again.

[The Big Cat]

Meg thanks for the clarification on my ? re list sizes. I have one other ? Bell, McLean and Amerty. Are they still on the rookie list or have they been promoted, I think they are all contracted? If they are still on rookie list can we keep them there for 2021, if not does it mean others need to be delisted (still waiting on ETaylor I guess.)
Thanks once again.

Bell is on our senior list already.

[MattW]

We can mull over the list changes all we like and offer opinions good and bad but I tell you that the club knows the EXACT situation and is making decisions accordingly. The club knows who we are adding/not adding like McCartin as a DFA or Papley Jnr as a very late ND pick or rookie. The club knows which other clubs have had serious discussions with potential draftees. The club knows what type of pick swaps or left field pick swaps are available and that will include 2020 picks and 2021 picks.

We are saying we like or don't like what is happening without knowing this. I trust the club to make the right decisions given all circumstances including whether players are interested in joining us. It will all be much clearer by mid December.

Gray is contracted for next year, albeit now on the Rookie List to free up another main list spot. Other delistings didn't have contracts, we chose to give 2021 contracts recently to Armartey, Ling and someone else? so they are obviously seen as the most likely of the uncontracted players

Absolutely agree.

[TheBloods]

Fox probably deserved another year, but none of these guys will be missed. There are a handful more we could've delisted as well if they weren't signed.

List is in huge trouble when you still have so many players who could warrant a delisting, after the delistings have already happened.

[SwanSand]

Fox wasn't a list clogger by any stretch, and deserves a spot on a competitive list. However, him staying will mean Gould or Ling don't get the games they need. It's not a popular call, but in 2 years it will be the right one hopefully.

Seems like they are happy that Ling's injury concerns are behind him and that he is developing well.

Also there is a lot of insurance and backups for defenders on our list -- too many who can play the role
Barry O'Connor, Colin O'Riordan, Matthew Ling, Will Gould
Cunningham, Lloyd, Mills, Rampe, Melican, McCartin, Dawson
Others who have been swung behind the ball - Hayward, Reid, Heeney

Between Fox and Thurlow, I know the popular choice is Fox given how he played this year. But I reckon I would have kept Thurlow for one more year. He is a very good kick and is taller. So could play a few more roles than Fox I guess. But both of them have the same height as the players likely to replace them Ling and Gould.

[Scottee]

Fox>>>>COR. Elite for speed and endurance, best spoiler in the side, a decent kick and a mature bod with no go home factor and not expensive. Capable of spoiling against the tallest forwards. At 27 he is in his prime. Similar for Thurlow, one of the best kicks for goal in the side. Removes experience from the side that we need.
Along with Foot leaving there is a lot of speed going from the side.

Fox and Thurlow were two of the positives to come out of a very negative year. Very hard to understand this move.

It leaves COR as the only other medium sized half back if as expected Dawson is needed elsewhere. Is Will Hayward going permanently to the backline?

We must have serious salary cap issues.

If it is not salary cap I have no idea what the hell they are up to because the side will worse off next year as result.

[Captain]

It is all good to say we are being ruthless, however the problem is Fox would be ahead of so many on our list and they are staying because they have a contract (often due to stupid deals) and he doesn't.

Taylor, Gray, Ronke, Amartey, Brand, Clarke, McLean and ET. That's 8 players. I have excluded Ling and Bell, but both could easily be added to this group.

Fox is ahead of all of these and it's a disgrace that they will be on our list in 2021 and Fox won't.

[707]

Probably a whole lot of reasons behind the list changes including having to manage a 9% cut in the TPP but only a 3.5% cut in contracts so needs to be some unusual renegotiations of existing and new contracts.

We have so much young talent that will need to be given senior experience, the way to give that experience is to move on journeymen who won't be best 22 in a couple of years when the expected ladder rise is occurring.

On the mooted pick trade with GC of their pick 5 for our 2021 first. We have traded out our 2021 third so the rules prevent us trading our first unless we get another 2021 third (GC's). Of note is that GC also hold picks 27 & 37 that they probably won't use, just 37 would cover us for deficit points. This could be a draft night type trade to nab us pick 3 & pick 5 plus total points for Campbell and Gulden. I'm sure these types of scenarios are being worked on.

I'm one that has been throwing Papley Jnr into our mix, it's based purely on the family ties and history, I'm certain the club has assessed him, would be nice to give him a try, you never know :-)