2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

I don't think our side is giving anything away about how we rank the players in the draft. JUH is going to WB. After that, there's a general consensus on the next 4 that comprise the fab 5. We all could be wrong, but it's a fair assumption that our pick will be one of the fab 5. We are fortunate this year that we are most in need of a KPP and 4 of the fab 5 are KPPs. Hollands is a special kind of player, so you can't leave him out of the calculations. If we pick outside this group of 5, it will send shock waves through the system.

[Nico]

I agree with you on moving McCartin back forward if we draft DGB. Without that, we have zero key forwards coming through and Reid/Buddy almost finished.

I'm excited to see Gould but given we have seen nothing yet, it's way too early to tell whether he is going to be an asset.

I can't see why we would send McCartin back forward. He looked so calm and at home playing back. We have a track record of building from defence and he fits the bill. We just have to find a forward.

[Nico]

So re DGB.

I do get where Liz is coming from but ...

One: with a pick as high as pick 3 you simply take the best available, secure the elite talent and then work things from there. If our team believe it’s DGB, so be it.

Two: I don’t think we have quality in defence, bar Rampe and Mills. (I view Lloyd as something other than a pure defender.)

Three: the way the game is played now you need elite marking talents in defence. Richmond has had Rance, Vlaustin, Grimes and Astbury as great intercept players. Brisbane has Harris. Geelong has had Taylor etc. WCE has Hurn and McGovern. I could argue nothing hurt Collingwood more than the loss of Howe this year.

So I get our list still has holes to plug, and deep strong midfields are essential to success. We also clearly have an emerging gap up forward so if they are still there I’d gladly have McDonald or Thilthorpe.

But at where we are and where the game is going, I’ve got no gripe with DGB either.

McCartin showed he reads the play very well as a back and is a strong mark. His emergence in the back line late in the season genuinely added a new dimension to our back line.

[giant]

Oh, and one other thing.

Barely anyone had us taking Stephens last year, pulling the swiftie to get Rowbottom the year before or Ling in 2017.

So, because our club doesn’t talk, the media supposing we are after DGB is just that - a guess.

I don't reckon. Here's Sumo talking up DBG: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...b54146b9032a9b

EDIT: Just see Ludwig previously posted and picked out interesting bits around flexibility.

[Markwebbos]

FWIW Gary, hated by RWO, Buckenara has his top 50 out. The top ten goes:

JUH
RT
DGB
LMcD
Oliver Henry
EH
Zach Reid
Archie Perkins
Braeden Campbell
Tanner Bruhn

Search Results | Herald Sun

He's got Phillips at 13!

[Thunder Shaker]

FWIW Gary, hated by RWO, Buckenara has his top 50 out. The top ten goes:

JUH
RT
DGB
LMcD
Oliver Henry
EH
Zach Reid
Archie Perkins
Braeden Campbell
Tanner Bruhn

Search Results | Herald Sun

He's got Phillips at 13!

The top ten prospects according to one expert may not necessarily match up with other people's lists. Cal Twomey's "Fab 5" (plus JUH) make a good starting point for discussion but they are not a given.

There are 19 lists that really matter - the lists prepared by the recruiters at the 18 clubs, and the order of players as drafted. The list as drafted is not definitive: each club drafts according to their needs, and the best available player may not necessarily be chosen by the club with the current pick if they have a more pressing need elsewhere.

Sydney needs tall KP players. The chances are high that we will draft the best available KP player at pick 3, one of RT, DGB or LMcD. We will probably bid on JUH if available.

[Auntie.Gerald]

it is still puzzling that we let AA walk when we need talls?
AA in the backs
Tom in the forwards
Hickey still achieved via trading a next year pick
hmmm I would have thought AA would have at least featured more in the backline than Melican who we signed for 3 more years?

Good enough for Port for 4 years

im confused

[Thunder Shaker]

it is still puzzling that we let AA walk when we need talls?
AA in the backs
Tom in the forwards
Hickey still achieved via trading a next year pick
hmmm I would have thought AA would have at least featured more in the backline than Melican who we signed for 3 more years?

Good enough for Port for 4 years

im confused

I think we will know the answers when the draft is complete.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

It’s a fallacy that Longmire refuses to play young players in the midfield. Sure, both Mills and Heeney have played in different positions but with good reason - they excel in those other positions. Mills has proven to be an outstanding defender from day one. Heeney causes headaches forward. He has played midfield but is much more dangerous forward. On the other hand, Rowbottom has played midfield almost from game 1. Florent is a midfielder. Stephens played midfield. McInerney the same.

I do believe that Campbell and a Gulden will likely start half forward but they are just as likely as anyone to be playing midfield by 2023 and saying there for 10 years.

Both sides of the arguement are valid, but I think there may be a bit of definition-confusion going on.

There's playing midfield and there's attending bounces.
Rowbottom as you say played midfield almost from game 1, but he didn't make an appearance at center bounces until the injury plague that hit the Swans in 2020.

Historically Horse keeps the centre bounce rotation to 5 players, with only 3 attending the vast majority.
In 2019 it was Kennedy, Parker and Hewett all above 50%, then Heeney in for almost 20% and Jones for 14% above 10% attendance.

Last year was different, but was it a change of heart (giving the youngsters more experience and making us less predictable) or maybe just an expedient adopted because of injuries? We probably won't know until May.

[AB Swannie]

it is still puzzling that we let AA walk when we need talls?
AA in the backs
Tom in the forwards
Hickey still achieved via trading a next year pick
hmmm I would have thought AA would have at least featured more in the backline than Melican who we signed for 3 more years?

Good enough for Port for 4 years

im confused

AA was not a "starting" tall. Melican was starting ahead of him in the back 6. I believe the coaches (and I agree) saw AA as a utility rather than a tall KPD.

Even if we draft DGB, it does not mean that he is a replacement for AA. Anyone we draft at pick 3 is not to cover key positions in 2021 but is expected to be a leader of the team in 3 or 4 years time.

On repeat, just pick best available - if that is DGB then pick him.

[Markwebbos]

If only "best available" was an objective measure

[Captain]

I can't see why we would send McCartin back forward. He looked so calm and at home playing back. We have a track record of building from defence and he fits the bill. We just have to find a forward.

I like him back too, but if we recruit DGB (which I'm against), then we have nothing coming through in the forward line.

[longmile]

I like him back too, but if we recruit DGB (which I'm against), then we have nothing coming through in the forward line.

I agree completely. McCartin looked like he had the potential to become an AA back (at least if he played for a Vic team...) - looked completely at home in the backline, is fast, physical and reads the ball well. Would be a waste if we sent him back forward.

Don't get me wrong DGB looks like a good backman, but we need a forward with Reid and Buddy on the way out. McDonald for me and if he's gone Thilthorpe.

Between Rampe, McCartin, Brand, Melican, Fox we have heaps of KPD who are capable of playing best 22 next year - don't know why we'd need another one by next year, especially using pick 3.

[SwanSand]

I agree completely. McCartin looked like he had the potential to become an AA back (at least if he played for a Vic team...) - looked completely at home in the backline, is fast, physical and reads the ball well. Would be a waste if we sent him back forward.

Don't get me wrong DGB looks like a good backman, but we need a forward with Reid and Buddy on the way out. McDonald for me and if he's gone Thilthorpe.

Between Rampe, McCartin, Brand, Melican, Fox we have heaps of KPD who are capable of playing best 22 next year - don't know why we'd need another one by next year, especially using pick 3.

I am a bit sceptical of all these > 200 cm players. I am unsure if they can play the entire season without a problem. Given Thilthorpe at 18 years of age already has groin issues, it worries me a lot.

[stevoswan]

I agree completely. McCartin looked like he had the potential to become an AA back (at least if he played for a Vic team...) - looked completely at home in the backline, is fast, physical and reads the ball well. Would be a waste if we sent him back forward.

Don't get me wrong DGB looks like a good backman, but we need a forward with Reid and Buddy on the way out. McDonald for me and if he's gone Thilthorpe.

Between Rampe, McCartin, Brand, Melican, Fox we have heaps of KPD who are capable of playing best 22 next year - don't know why we'd need another one by next year, especially using pick 3.

DGB has also been touted by Peter Sumich as a potential gun KPF and doesn't believe he should be pigeon holed as a defender.....so if we draft him, I won't be displeased. He is a great mark, reads the play well and has good foot skills....everything we need plus he adds versatility at the selection table.