2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[waswan]

Can the "happy to let Hewitt leave camp" please advise how many seasons they think Kennedy has left in him?

Before we let George walk

Reid
Sink
Naismith come to exit terms
Lewis come to exit terms
Gray
Clarke

[Ludwig]

I will do this without counting JPK and Hewett in the midfield mix.

Parker is still only 28 and will continue to lead the midfield another 5 years. Mills, RB, and Warner, in addition to Parker will make up our key centre bounce on ballers.

To this we add Florent (who I think is coming along fine, but still has a few kinks around decision making to work out in his game), McInerney and Dawson. That makes 7.

Heeney, Gulden, Campbell and Papley can all rotate through the midfield. So they can be counted as half midfielders. So we're up to 9.

We're not sure about Stephens, but he's another if he stays. I'd like to keep him. If not, we will get another draft pick which can be used for another midfielder.

Sheather looks like he'll be coming into the side, either as a forward or midfielder.

The rest, like Taylor, Ronke, Clarke and Bell are depth players or will be let go in the next couple of years. Who knows what's going on with Ling and his reputed foot injury. So we won't count any of these.

If Hewett leaves, we will likely get a 2nd round draft pick, so we will go into the draft with a 1st rounder and 2 second round picks. One or 2 midfielders are likely to be drafted to add to the base.

We will likely create another midfielder from the excess of non-KPPs in defence, e.g., Blakey may return to the midfield in due course.

That core count of 9 midfielders, plus a lot possibles, looks deep to me, because the quality is there and most are young. We will continue to get new players coming in through the draft, while not many will be leaving through retirement, just Kennedy really.

We are just about at the maximum number of quality mids that can be carried under the salary cap.

[bloodspirit]

Talking about the midfield does my head in.

"The Swans have the deepest midfield in the league; maybe not the best, but the deepest. "

Even if we accept your arguments about quantity (and I don't for a second accept we have the deepest midfield in the AFL), Ludwig, building the quality of our first choice midfield is important too.

Hewett IS a quality, underrated midfielder and I'd love to keep him. However, there are other players we can less afford to lose including Parker and Dawson (who are also out of contract), and youth like McInerney, Warner, Gulden, Campbell etc. If we need cap space he is one of the ones whose departure could offer us some relief. So I am prepared to countenance his departure if need be. I trust out list managers to make the right calls - even though they don't always get it right, they mostly do.

What we do need is KPP and ruck depth. Daniel Talia is on the market. His brother didn't work out too well for us and so I'm not sure if he would consider coming to play for us but, if he would, what do people think? Could be a good stopgap while we get some younger talent up to speed. He's the kind of inexpensive top up player that could help us if he can overcome his injuries (obviously we'd have to do our due diligence). He'd surely be an upgrade on Brand and worth it even if he costs a bit more.

[Ludwig]

It is not a myth it is real

Who have we got ?

Looking more likely Florent wont be the player we hoped he'd be , starting to think Stephens will be the same , could be gone anyway , RB, Clarke these types wont last , Jmac is outside, Gulden and Campbell wont be permanent

Are Chad and Mills gonna be doing it all by themselves ?

Hewetts decent nothing special but lose him and our already poor depth under Jpk and Parker becomes very dire

I think you are grossly undervaluing the quality of our players. What does it mean to say Gulden and Campbell won't be permanent? They are absolute guns. If you don't value those 2, you will never be satisfied.

Hewett received so much criticism over the years. Now that he's a good chance of leaving, suddenly he's indispensable.

Same thing goes for Lloyd and Cunningham. We might as well add Hayward to that list.

I don't know why so many posters take a negative slant on players and seem to judge them on their worst performances. More often than not, players develop and improve with time, and work out their deficiencies. Florent, for example, is in his 5th year. My guess is that he will work out his remaining faults by the time he starts season 7 and become a fine player, maybe like a Cunningham or Lloyd. I'm more than okay with that.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I think the interesting thing about our (emerging) midfield is the mix.

I'll be clear on one thing first: JPK is irreplaceable. He was THE best clearance/contested player in the AFL in the last decade. Not our team, the entire comp. When it came to the barge and bullock of big bodies colliding, and literally ripping the ball out to our advantage, no one came close. Other players could do more with the ball, but in actually winning a contest, he was no1.

So, there is that context to what I say here, which is the two types of players we have. And each can do a bit of the other of course.

I put the contested bulls in one bucket (knowing they all have other skills too, like Parker and his marking or goalkicking). But they are Parker and Mills, with Rowbottom and Warner showing traits. Hewett also falls in this category.

There are then those best placed to use the ball types: Florent, Dawson, Heeney, JMac, Gulden, and in future Blakey and Campbell and hopefully Stephens. Papley is in the this camp when he's in there.

I haven't seen enough of Sheather to know where he might fall.

Now, as I said, some can mix and match. Heeney for example could easily play inside mid if he had to, but his fitness and skills demand he play more outside. As Papley and JMac have shown at times, you need a diverse mix in the square at centre bounces.

But if there is an argument for keeping Hewett (and I favour that camp), it's that our inside stocks aren't quite as rich and as much a sure thing as our outside stocks.

[mcs]

I think you are grossly undervaluing the quality of our players. What does it mean to say Gulden and Campbell won't be permanent? They are absolute guns. If you don't value those 2, you will never be satisfied.

Hewett received so much criticism over the years. Now that he's a good chance of leaving, suddenly he's indispensable.

Same thing goes for Lloyd and Cunningham. We might as well add Hayward to that list.

I don't know why so many posters take a negative slant on players and seem to judge them on their worst performances. More often than not, players develop and improve with time, and work out their deficiencies. Florent, for example, is in his 5th year. My guess is that he will work out his remaining faults by the time he starts season 7 and become a fine player, maybe like a Cunningham or Lloyd. I'm more than okay with that.

Just need to accept Ludwig that even if we won 10 flags straight, said poster would still find something to whine insessantly about....

the same poster would delist 3/4 of the gun players across the competition before they ever had a chance to become 'guns' because they weren't at 100% output in about their 3rd game.

[mcs]

So, I'd definitely prefer to keep George, as every team needs those selfless players who do the hard work that lets others shine, George is a solid player in his own right, and as well as we're developing our midfield, we've seen in recent weeks it only needs a couple of injuries to make him essential.

But, I get it if he leaves. My thoughts on Carlton are well known. But if they a) guarantee him a starting square slot to help ease pressure on Cripps and Walsh, and b) can give him a financial offer we can't match (say, four years at $500K, vs 2 or 3 years at $380K), you'd probably take it if you were him.

And for us, beyond JPK, we have Parker and Mills to lead, Rowbottom and Warner emerging, Gulden will go in there more, JMac has shown he can, Heeney at times, Dawson on a wing, etc etc. Plus we free up cash, and potentially get a second rounder in compensation we can use as part of our efforts to get another list hole filled - ie, KPD

As I said, I'd rather keep him, but sometimes things have to give on both salary cap and list strategy.

That reflects my overall view as well. Definitely prefer to keep him, but can understand if he goes. Hopefully he finds somewhere better than the cardboard dickheads to end up however - if you want to go to a club just to play out your career, then that is the place to go these days.

[Bangalore Swans]

That reflects my overall view as well. Definitely prefer to keep him, but can understand if he goes. Hopefully he finds somewhere better than the cardboard dickheads to end up however - if you want to go to a club just to play out your career, then that is the place to go these days.

Why do you speak about Carlton in that way? What is the back story?

[dejavoodoo44]

I think the interesting thing about our (emerging) midfield is the mix.

I'll be clear on one thing first: JPK is irreplaceable. He was THE best clearance/contested player in the AFL in the last decade. Not our team, the entire comp. When it came to the barge and bullock of big bodies colliding, and literally ripping the ball out to our advantage, no one came close. Other players could do more with the ball, but in actually winning a contest, he was no1.

So, there is that context to what I say here, which is the two types of players we have. And each can do a bit of the other of course.

I put the contested bulls in one bucket (knowing they all have other skills too, like Parker and his marking or goalkicking). But they are Parker and Mills, with Rowbottom and Warner showing traits. Hewett also falls in this category.

There are then those best placed to use the ball types: Florent, Dawson, Heeney, JMac, Gulden, and in future Blakey and Campbell and hopefully Stephens. Papley is in the this camp when he's in there.

I haven't seen enough of Sheather to know where he might fall.

Now, as I said, some can mix and match. Heeney for example could easily play inside mid if he had to, but his fitness and skills demand he play more outside. As Papley and JMac have shown at times, you need a diverse mix in the square at centre bounces.

But if there is an argument for keeping Hewett (and I favour that camp), it's that our inside stocks aren't quite as rich and as much a sure thing as our outside stocks.

Sheather is probably more of a bull. To me, the more eye catching features of his game, are the power of his tackling and the fact that he tends to beeline the ball. That being said, I don't think I've seen him attend that many centre bounces. In his academy cohort, those duties fell mainly to Gulden, Campbell and Thorne. And in this year's VFL, he mainly played forward pocket, while senior players like Clarke, Taylor, Grey etc were the main inside mids.

And speaking of the academy: the only player from our academy, who has been invited to the draft combine is Angus Anderson. He's a big bodied, hard at it mid, from a rugby league background. I liked what I saw of him at academy level, and I think he's possibly good enough for a late draft/rookie spot. Definitely worth a VFL contract.

[chalbilto]

Talking about the midfield does my head in.

"The Swans have the deepest midfield in the league; maybe not the best, but the deepest. "

Even if we accept your arguments about quantity (and I don't for a second accept we have the deepest midfield in the AFL), Ludwig, building the quality of our first choice midfield is important too.

Hewett IS a quality, underrated midfielder and I'd love to keep him. However, there are other players we can less afford to lose including Parker and Dawson (who are also out of contract), and youth like McInerney, Warner, Gulden, Campbell etc. If we need cap space he is one of the ones whose departure could offer us some relief. So I am prepared to countenance his departure if need be. I trust out list managers to make the right calls - even though they don't always get it right, they mostly do.

What we do need is KPP and ruck depth. Daniel Talia is on the market. His brother didn't work out too well for us and so I'm not sure if he would consider coming to play for us but, if he would, what do people think? Could be a good stopgap while we get some younger talent up to speed. He's the kind of inexpensive top up player that could help us if he can overcome his injuries (obviously we'd have to do our due diligence). He'd surely be an upgrade on Brand and worth it even if he costs a bit more.

Just a thought, what about Paddy McCartin. Why not list him on the rookie list? He is already at the club, can play defense and would impact the salary cap too much.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Why do you speak about Carlton in that way? What is the back story?

It's reference to the Pratts and Visy.

And everything to do with Carlton is farcical.

[bloodspirit]

Why do you speak about Carlton in that way? What is the back story?

They're dickheads because they're Carlton. QED. They're cardboard because they are sponsored by Visy. Visy are: "one of the world's largest privately owned paper, packaging and recycling companies". The deceased owner of Visy, Richard Pratt, was also a former Carlton under-19s VFL player and later President of Carlton FC. Hence there is a close association with cardboard. So fitting.

[mcs]

Why do you speak about Carlton in that way? What is the back story?

I would of thought the cardboard reference would be obvious (and it actually fits quite nicely with the Plastics reference for GWS -> as we all know Carlton are trying to be GWS in disguise :P), but the broader hatred is for how they tried to pick over our dying carcass in the 90s - they had already planned out how they would make the Sydney market their own, and were very happy to let us wither on the branch.

They can rot in hell - long may they remain mediocre.

[longmile]

Bored at work. My quick take on everyone still out of contract

Barry O'Connor - ? Don't know enough about unfortunately.

Ben Ronke – delist. Unfortunately I don’t think he has much trade value.

Callum Sinclair – 1 more year as a back up to Hickey and Naismith (cheap contract).

Colin O'Riordan – delist or trade I'd imagine. We have a lot of young half back types coming through who you'd suspect would push COR out. Could easily be offered a cheap 1-2 yr contract as well.

Dylan Stephens – suspect he wants out. I’m happy to see him go if it means keeping Dawson, Hewett and Parker. Haven't seen what others have seen in him personally.

George Hewett - On the fence on this one. Like him as a player and a person but he is behind Kennedy, Parker and Mills and is allegedly on $500k PA. I would try and keep if we can afford him, but he is behind Dawson and Parker as priority resignings.

Hayden McLean – try to keep, offer 3 year deal. However St Kilda are interested so may get poached. While I'd prefer to keep him, I don't think he'll be as big a lose as other previous fringe players like Membrey or Nankervis.

James Bell – delist. I know others like him, but I just don’t see it at all.

Jordan Dawson – MUST KEEP. Sounds like he’ll stay but the salary situation is tight. My understanding is that we may need to move Reid or Hewett on to keep.

Kaiden Brand – handy backup but could easily be delisted. Would probably rather Paddy McCartin. Be interesting to see if the club keeps him considering our KPD stocks. I suspect the club may delist.

Luke Parker – allegedly asking for $700k a year for 4 years. You think he stays and is obviously a must keep but I presume his current situation depends on the situation of Reid, Dawson and Hewett.

Malachy Carruthers - ? Don't know enough about unfortunately.

Matthew Ling – Hurts to say about a first round draft pick and great guy but … delist.

Robbie Fox – keep. Most on here know I'm a big fan. Should see a promotion to the senior list. 2 year deal sounds appropriate.

Ryan Clarke – delist or trade. Only way he stays is if both Hewett and Parker leave which is highly unlikely and catastrophic. I think he is still capable of senior level footy, but we already have too many slow midfielders, hope he gets an opportunity at a 3rd club.

Sam Gray – delist. The 2yr deal seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Alas...

Sam Reid – my big call … TRADE. In order to free up salary space for Dawson, Hewett and Parker I’m happy to see Sam Reid go. He has been serviceable for us for a long time with flashes of brilliance but has never amounted to that special KPF we all thought he would be. Still think about his 2012 GF goal once a week. Amartey, McDonald and McLean will fill the gap.

Sam Wicks – keep. Been great this year. Suspect 2-3yr deal soon.

Will Gould – delist. Just doesn’t seem to be up to it in my opinion. Hasn't really knocked down the selector's door to play once in his tenure.

[Markwebbos]

Bored at work. My quick take on everyone still out of contract

Barry O'Connor - ? Don't know enough about unfortunately.

Ben Ronke – delist. Unfortunately I don’t think he has much trade value.

Callum Sinclair – 1 more year as a back up to Hickey and Naismith (cheap contract).

Colin O'Riordan – delist or trade I'd imagine. We have a lot of young half back types coming through who you'd suspect would push COR out. Could easily be offered a cheap 1-2 yr contract as well.

Dylan Stephens – suspect he wants out. I’m happy to see him go if it means keeping Dawson, Hewett and Parker. Haven't seen what others have seen in him personally.

George Hewett - On the fence on this one. Like him as a player and a person but he is behind Kennedy, Parker and Mills and is allegedly on $500k PA. I would try and keep if we can afford him, but he is behind Dawson and Parker as priority resignings.

Hayden McLean – try to keep, offer 3 year deal. However St Kilda are interested so may get poached. While I'd prefer to keep him, I don't think he'll be as big a lose as other previous fringe players like Membrey or Nankervis.

James Bell – delist. I know others like him, but I just don’t see it at all.

Jordan Dawson – MUST KEEP. Sounds like he’ll stay but the salary situation is tight. My understanding is that we may need to move Reid or Hewett on to keep.

Kaiden Brand – handy backup but could easily be delisted. Would probably rather Paddy McCartin. Be interesting to see if the club keeps him considering our KPD stocks. I suspect the club may delist.

Luke Parker – allegedly asking for $700k a year for 4 years. You think he stays and is obviously a must keep but I presume his current situation depends on the situation of Reid, Dawson and Hewett.

Malachy Carruthers - ? Don't know enough about unfortunately.

Matthew Ling – Hurts to say about a first round draft pick and great guy but … delist.

Robbie Fox – keep. Most on here know I'm a big fan. Should see a promotion to the senior list. 2 year deal sounds appropriate.

Ryan Clarke – delist or trade. Only way he stays is if both Hewett and Parker leave which is highly unlikely and catastrophic. I think he is still capable of senior level footy, but we already have too many slow midfielders, hope he gets an opportunity at a 3rd club.

Sam Gray – delist. The 2yr deal seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Alas...

Sam Reid – my big call … TRADE. In order to free up salary space for Dawson, Hewett and Parker I’m happy to see Sam Reid go. He has been serviceable for us for a long time with flashes of brilliance but has never amounted to that special KPF we all thought he would be. Still think about his 2012 GF goal once a week. Amartey, McDonald and McLean will fill the gap.

Sam Wicks – keep. Been great this year. Suspect 2-3yr deal soon.

Will Gould – delist. Just doesn’t seem to be up to it in my opinion. Hasn't really knocked down the selector's door to play once in his tenure.

Agree about most, but that's a pretty brutal cull for some players - pacifically, COR may yet be in our best-22 for finals. Gould and Stephens, the perplexing pair from South Australia, I am none the wiser, but suspect both could be gorn next year.