2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[mcs]

Daily telegraph reporting we have cap space ,and open to a player to replace Dawson , premiership window

Trading Hewett to Carlton because we have CHAD and JMAC as midfield replacements

Funny i said those two were the future of the midfield and it was silly talk .

Where did anyone say it was 'silly talk'? I would suggest most people posting on here would freely recognise they will have a significant role to play in the midfield group going forward.

Or is this just another example of an attempt at revisionist history?

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It's interesting how times have changed with club and player expectations when it comes to young players starting out their careers. I think both parties are far more impatient than they ever were in the past.

The early 2000's don't seem like that long ago to me - but it's so different when you look at certain players and how they started their careers (even ones that were high draft picks and/or played senior footy pretty early):

McVeigh - if I'm reading it right, it was game 74 before he had 20+ touches in a game
Fosdike, O'Keefe, Kennelly & Buchanan - averaged about 10 touches a game across their first 3 seasons (played plenty of games)
J.Bolton and Malceski - wasn't until their 3rd seasons that they started taking off

With Stephens I just think it would be a waste for him to go - we'll get nothing back in return, and I might be wrong but I see him as a skilled, hard-running outside player who suits the modern game (and the way we're trying to play). You need to be able to adapt and incorporate talented players into different roles if you're going to be a successful team.

It's also hard to know what to believe in the media - I'm sure the better journos are using genuine sources, but even then a lot of it would be second or third hand info (eg. what List Manager from Club A told them came from the Player Agent of Player 1 who had been talking to Recruiting Manager of Club B who has been speaking to Club C about Player 2 and Player 3). There would be some truth to it, but how accurate or up-to-date could be questionable (or how much of it is club of player agent trying to gain leverage but actually preferring for the player to stay).

I think the expectations of younger players have changed a lot in recent years to. Maybe its just a perception, but in general (noting there are probably a fair few high profile examples out there that don't fit the trend), I feel like in previous times, younger players were more willing to do their apprenticeship in reserves, even if it took 2-3 seasons to really get any real chance in seniors. Now it seems if someone is drafted relatively high, if they don't play more games than not in season 1, a fair percentage are already looking for a way out.

[TheBloods]

Where did anyone say it was 'silly talk'? I would suggest most people posting on here would freely recognise they will have a significant role to play in the midfield group going forward.

Or is this just another example of an attempt at revisionist history?

i copped it for saying those two would be the future of our mid ! i said that they could be like Voss and Lappin as a duo that work together and i was mocked for it ! Go back and read it . In the past now , i mock others too , it goes both ways and i can take it as good as i can give it but a bit of acknowledgment that i wasnt just "baiting" or trolling would be nice !

[longmile]

i copped it for saying those two would be the future of our mid ! i said that they could be like Voss and Lappin as a duo that work together and i was mocked for it ! Go back and read it . In the past now , i mock others too , it goes both ways and i can take it as good as i can give it but a bit of acknowledgment that i wasnt just "baiting" or trolling would be nice !

get over yourself dude. You're not some messianic figure for seeing potential in McInerney

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Mind you that might end up being our annus horribilis at the draft - Stephens, Gould, Taylor, Rowles ... the only player who definitely looks like hanging around at this stage is The Chad.

The pundits lauded our efforts in that draft, and I think most on RWO were equally ebulliant the day after the draft was completed. Now it's annus horribils?
At the time of the draft Stepehens and more especially Gould were being lauded, Taylor was viewed as speculative, and Warner was seen as nothing special.

Then Taylor made his debut and was widely celebrated for his highlights. But faster than his stocks rose he went from @@@@-of-the-walk to feather duster and was delisted.
Chad's first two games were forgettable and people were suggesting a run with role - or the back pocket. Now of course the evidance is that he's a dynamic inside mid.
Stephens was seen as being of a very strong upward trajectory at the end of his first season (19 disposals agains the Cats). Now some want to trade him for a a 3rd rounder or use him as the steak knives in varous deals.

I have no idea what the final washup will be, but I suspect the draft assessment roller coast hasn't come to an end just yet.


As to Dawson, while not discounting the possibility of the go home factor, it's possible - I have simply heard it utilised by players that were simply masking their true motivations to take it at face value.
The club said there was "an attractive long-term deal on offer with the Swans" - and I don't doubt it. The unknown is whether Dawson (or his manager) considered it attractive.

[COB]

Lot of skullduggery at this time of year. I remember a story Ross Lyon told from his days at Freo. They expressed strong interest in a player from a strong Victorian club and even brought him over to Perth for an interview. However they had no intention of ever acquiring the player.
They just wanted to up the money the other club would have to pay to keep him so that they might have to let go of another player and weaken the overall strength of their list.
Player managers the same. Spread rumours to up the money their player can get.

[Auntie.Gerald]

IF...........and I mean IF...............Hewett, Stephens, Dawso are on the cards for trading...... it would be remarkable to attract similar or better without impact on draft picks etc.............but not impossible

Hewett - would it be fair to say every bit as good if not better than Mitchell at pick 14 a few years back? For me Hewett just looks like a Sam Mitchell Hawthorn keen trade? It is possible pick 10 in pts and up?

Dawso - anyones guess from a pick 6 thru who knows.....i suppose it depends on who is chasing > maybe there is an opportunity to move a good pick to a club that may allow a senior player to move on if rebuilding? ie a Snr player that supports our window 2022 chase?

Stephens - my understanding is that we can match any clubs offer and he stays ie like we did with ROK in the past. Then I say, within reason match and stay and develop as the game is only more and more aligning to his qualities and build etc....... BUT if an offer is to good to refuse we have even more opportunity to recruit, trade etc

[mcs]

Hewett - would it be fair to say every bit as good if not better than Mitchell at pick 14 a few years back? For me Hewett just looks like a Sam Mitchell Hawthorn keen trade? It is possible pick 10 in pts and up?

Dawso - anyones guess from a pick 6 thru who knows.....i suppose it depends on who is chasing > maybe there is an opportunity to move a good pick to a club that may allow a senior player to move on if rebuilding? ie a Snr player that supports our window 2022 chase?

Stephens - my understanding is that we can match any clubs offer and he stays ie like we did with ROK in the past. Then I say, within reason match and stay and develop as the game is only more and more aligning to his qualities and build etc....... BUT if an offer is to good to refuse we have even more opportunity to recruit, trade etc

I do not think there is any chance of pick 10 or anything like it for Hewett. Yes he is a Restricted Free Agent (which means he must be on some decent coin to be in the top 25%), but I think there is very little chance we will even contemplate matching what the Sombrero blues might offer him salary wise, unless it is very much on the low side (and hence it would be in our interest to force a trade and get a better outcome from that then the compensation pick we would get). I don't know enough about the relevant compensation bands, but I've seen bandied around a likely outcome of a 2nd rd pick for him which sounds about right.

Dawson's true value is probably somewhere between somewhere in the mid first round - like pick 8-10 sort of range. Whether we get anything like that depends on a) how willing we are to facilitate him back to Adelaide (and whether we have any go at playing hardball if the offers such) and b) whether he is open to either club. Adelaide has the better packet of lotto tickets to pick from, but Port has some steak knives that might interest us. I would hope we can achieve some form of outcome that includes a first rd pick + something - I still think 1st rd pick more likely to be 2022 than 2021.

As for Stephens - he can walk to the pre-season draft if he really wants to can he not? If he does go, I suggest we will probably get gross unders for him, for Collingwood would fancy themselves a good chance of getting him for nothing in the PSD, if as reported that may be his preferred destination (why i would never know - I guess its not Carlton but still!). Lol@Norf might have something to say about it that will force a trade, but Collingwood know they can offer low and get away with it. Only hope of any reasonable return is if a few clubs are interested, but even then, I wouldn't think we are likely to get more then a 2nd rd draft pick for him.

[TheBloods]

get over yourself dude. You're not some messianic figure for seeing potential in McInerney

i never said i was ! In fact i said it was an unremarkable thing for me to say and obvious that Jmac and Chad would be the stars of our midfield but every person who responded to me made out like i'd shot Kennedy ! your all quick to think the worst of me and assumed i was trolling or something when i was just giving my take same as everyone else !

[Nico]

It's interesting how times have changed with club and player expectations when it comes to young players starting out their careers. I think both parties are far more impatient than they ever were in the past.

The early 2000's don't seem like that long ago to me - but it's so different when you look at certain players and how they started their careers (even ones that were high draft picks and/or played senior footy pretty early):

McVeigh - if I'm reading it right, it was game 74 before he had 20+ touches in a game
Fosdike, O'Keefe, Kennelly & Buchanan - averaged about 10 touches a game across their first 3 seasons (played plenty of games)
J.Bolton and Malceski - wasn't until their 3rd seasons that they started taking off

With Stephens I just think it would be a waste for him to go - we'll get nothing back in return, and I might be wrong but I see him as a skilled, hard-running outside player who suits the modern game (and the way we're trying to play). You need to be able to adapt and incorporate talented players into different roles if you're going to be a successful team.

It's also hard to know what to believe in the media - I'm sure the better journos are using genuine sources, but even then a lot of it would be second or third hand info (eg. what List Manager from Club A told them came from the Player Agent of Player 1 who had been talking to Recruiting Manager of Club B who has been speaking to Club C about Player 2 and Player 3). There would be some truth to it, but how accurate or up-to-date could be questionable (or how much of it is club of player agent trying to gain leverage but actually preferring for the player to stay).

Fosdike and Bolton came good when Roos took over. That luminary of a coach Eade played them back and forwards in the 2's at Port Melbourne regardless of how they went in the 1's. When Roos took over he just played them. Funny about that. Eade also played Goodes off the half back flank in the 2's in his first year.

[i'm-uninformed2]

i copped it for saying those two would be the future of our mid ! i said that they could be like Voss and Lappin as a duo that work together and i was mocked for it ! Go back and read it . In the past now , i mock others too , it goes both ways and i can take it as good as i can give it but a bit of acknowledgment that i wasnt just "baiting" or trolling would be nice !

I remember you saying that, in the middle of this season.

After we’d all seen McInerney play exceptionally well since coming back into the side last year, and Chad’s exceptional start to the year that had us all cheering him on, you made the big call. Well done, acknowledgement coming your way.

[TheBloods]

I remember you saying that, in the middle of this season.

After we’d all seen McInerney play exceptionally well since coming back into the side last year, and Chad’s exceptional start to the year that had us all cheering him on, you made the big call. Well done, acknowledgement coming your way.

I dont want the acknowledgment , i want my opinion heard and respected and not assumed to be trolling or trying to bait everyone .

[Markwebbos]

It's interesting how times have changed with club and player expectations when it comes to young players starting out their careers. I think both parties are far more impatient than they ever were in the past.

The early 2000's don't seem like that long ago to me - but it's so different when you look at certain players and how they started their careers (even ones that were high draft picks and/or played senior footy pretty early):

McVeigh - if I'm reading it right, it was game 74 before he had 20+ touches in a game
Fosdike, O'Keefe, Kennelly & Buchanan - averaged about 10 touches a game across their first 3 seasons (played plenty of games)
J.Bolton and Malceski - wasn't until their 3rd seasons that they started taking off

With Stephens I just think it would be a waste for him to go - we'll get nothing back in return, and I might be wrong but I see him as a skilled, hard-running outside player who suits the modern game (and the way we're trying to play). You need to be able to adapt and incorporate talented players into different roles if you're going to be a successful team.

My hunch, is that draftees - Covid aside - are better prepared than they were 15-20 years ago.

[Steve]

Fosdike and Bolton came good when Roos took over. That luminary of a coach Eade played them back and forwards in the 2's at Port Melbourne regardless of how they went in the 1's. When Roos took over he just played them. Funny about that. Eade also played Goodes off the half back flank in the 2's in his first year.

That was 3.5 years into their careers when Roos took over, Eade played all those guys as youngsters including others like Saddington - even when we had a fairly mature list and were regularly playing finals.

If I could go back in time I’m not sure I’d change a thing re: Goodes - the grounding he got (remembering he was drafted at a 17 y/o) worked out OK.

[AppleCore]

I remember you saying that, in the middle of this season.

After we’d all seen McInerney play exceptionally well since coming back into the side last year, and Chad’s exceptional start to the year that had us all cheering him on, you made the big call. Well done, acknowledgement coming your way.

Feeding a troll just encourages more stupidity.

[waswan]

So whats thw difference between Dawson and Cerra as far as being out of contract ?

Are we looking at a 2nd rounder if he goes PSD yet Freo are looking at 2x 1st Rounders and no talk of PSD ?