2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

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  • bloodspirit
    Clubman
    • Apr 2015
    • 4448

    It hurts to read that CCJ looked after his former club in trade negotiations, refusing to be brought in via the PSD - AFL news 2021: North Melbourne, Callum Coleman Jones trade, pre-season draft, Tom Lynch, rookie, list plans (foxsports.com.au) - unlike JD.
    All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

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    • liz
      Veteran
      Site Admin
      • Jan 2003
      • 16738

      But Dawson isn’t headed for the PSD either…

      Comment

      • Markwebbos
        Veterans List
        • Jul 2016
        • 7186

        Originally posted by bloodspirit
        It hurts to read that CCJ looked after his former club in trade negotiations, refusing to be brought in via the PSD - AFL news 2021: North Melbourne, Callum Coleman Jones trade, pre-season draft, Tom Lynch, rookie, list plans (foxsports.com.au) - unlike JD.
        Allegedly Dawson's manager had "robust discussions" with the Crows that walking JD to the PSD was not an option, because JD "wanted Sydney to be compensated for developing him" It doesn't say fairly compensated, but it does say compensated.

        He clearly didn't share that information with the Swans at the time or we'd have held firm.

        No Cookies | Herald Sun

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        • Meg
          Go Swannies!
          Site Admin
          • Aug 2011
          • 4828

          2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

          Originally posted by liz
          But Dawson isn’t headed for the PSD either…
          But the threat was implicit ..... which (in the Swans’ view) affected the value the Swans received for Dawson.

          That’s the reason Pridham called for a review of the PSD immediately after the Dawson trade was finalised.

          Comment

          • liz
            Veteran
            Site Admin
            • Jan 2003
            • 16738

            Originally posted by Markwebbos
            Allegedly Dawson's manager had "robust discussions" with the Crows that walking JD to the PSD was not an option, because JD "wanted Sydney to be compensated for developing him" It doesn't say fairly compensated, but it does say compensated.

            He clearly didn't share that information with the Swans at the time or we'd have held firm.

            No Cookies | Herald Sun
            Held firm to what end?

            We were compensated, albeit, as you indicate, probably not "fairly". The reality that most trades for out of contract players do not reflect the worth of the player. Unless all clubs commit to some unwritten contract that they will deal "fairly" with other clubs, I don't see that changing.

            Comment

            • Markwebbos
              Veterans List
              • Jul 2016
              • 7186

              Originally posted by liz
              Held firm to what end?

              We were compensated, albeit, as you indicate, probably not "fairly". The reality that most trades for out of contract players do not reflect the worth of the player. Unless all clubs commit to some unwritten contract that they will deal "fairly" with other clubs, I don't see that changing.
              Charlie Gardiner says we chose to accept the best deal we could get even though it was significantly below what JD is worth. The reason for that was because the threat of walking him to the PSD worked in the Crows favour. In the end we folded.

              Had JD or his manager made it known that Jordan would not allow the Crows to use the PSD, they would have lost their leverage and we could have held firm in demanding a top ten pick.

              You could argue JD's decision not to do advise the Swans ensured we did not get compensated fairly for his departure, but also ensured he got to the Crows.

              The other possibility is the Crows called JD's bluff.
              Last edited by Markwebbos; 21 October 2021, 01:48 PM.

              Comment

              • Bangalore Swans
                Suspended by the MRP
                • Mar 2021
                • 1049

                Originally posted by liz
                Held firm to what end?

                We were compensated, albeit, as you indicate, probably not "fairly". The reality that most trades for out of contract players do not reflect the worth of the player. Unless all clubs commit to some unwritten contract that they will deal "fairly" with other clubs, I don't see that changing.
                What’s not to say that the value for Dawson is not fair value. Dawson had an outstanding 2021. He’s yet to put multiple high performing years together.

                If he fails to live up to his 2021 form over the next three years then the pick would be fair value.

                Comment

                • Aprilbr
                  Senior Player
                  • Oct 2016
                  • 1803

                  If JD was a restricted free agent we would have had the chance to match Adelaide's offer or to receive compensation decided by the AFL formula. The latter would have yielded better than what we received in this case given JD's 5 year, high $ contract and his age. There is something not working when we get a worse deal for a player coming into his prime that occurs well before he reached free agency status.

                  Comment

                  • The Big Cat
                    On the veteran's list
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 2350

                    Originally posted by Aprilbr
                    If JD was a restricted free agent we would have had the chance to match Adelaide's offer or to receive compensation decided by the AFL formula. The latter would have yielded better than what we received in this case given JD's 5 year, high $ contract and his age. There is something not working when we get a worse deal for a player coming into his prime that occurs well before he reached free agency status.
                    I suspect the AFL would have given us an end of round 1 pick which would have been worth less than Melb's first pick in 2022.
                    Those who have the greatest power to hurt us are those we love.

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                    • liz
                      Veteran
                      Site Admin
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 16738

                      Originally posted by The Big Cat
                      I suspect the AFL would have given us an end of round 1 pick which would have been worth less than Melb's first pick in 2022.
                      That's my guess too. That's what the Crows got when Brad Crouch moved to the Saints on a similar level of contract. The absolute best compensation it would have been possible to receive in a free agent scenario is a pick immediately after our first round pick - ie pick 13, which would effectively be pick 15. And that isn't a whole heap better than what we landed up with.

                      An indication from a departing player that they would prefer not to go to the PSD so that their original club receives some compensation has to have some limits - ie that the original club is not being too unreasonable. Otherwise the Swans could have told the Crows they wanted Tilthorpe and pick 4 or deal off. What would happen then?

                      I reckon the Swans calculated that Dawson and his management would consider the future first we finally were offered to be a not completely unreasonable trade, and thus their consciences would have been clear had the Swans rejected that and Dawson got to the Crows via the PSD. And when you compare it to what we accepted for, say, Zak Jones, that would be a pretty easy position for Dawson to reach in his mind.

                      Comment

                      • i'm-uninformed2
                        Reefer Madness
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 4653

                        Lord, Doughty has sold that journo a pup. Even Adelaide people know he had two offers on the table for some time, the two-year one to take him to FA, and another the long-term deal. Let alone other crap like the two deals between the two SA clubs being similar. One year of difference, and $100K a year difference. Half a million bucks over life of the contract ain't 'similar'.

                        What a fabrication. Must be easy in a small town for someone like Doughty to milk the journos dependent on you for drops and inside info to instead get favourable yarns.

                        Put Matt Turner in the dunderhead category of reporters.
                        'Delicious' is a fun word to say

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                        • Auntie.Gerald
                          Veterans List
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 6474

                          Maaaan........im moving on from yesterdays news re Dawso etc

                          It is very clear that our club is concerned about the walk away back home factor that the Suns, Bears, GWS and we have to compete with and no doubt these 4 clubs will be illustrating prime examples and trend lines.

                          So more importantly do we need an extra tall defender to support our charge at the top4 and or a GF in 2022 or do we think between Rampe, Tom, Melican, Blakey, Gould, O'Connor, Foxy and Colin we are good to go and can snuff out a GF style game plan like Melb did first two qtrs...........with Lever, May etc ?

                          We have Bud and Kennedy still with us and my gut feeling is that 6th to top4 is possible and 2022 is our prime time vs no Bud and no Kennedy in 2023 and or the lesser of the two vs years gone past
                          "be tough, only when it gets tough"

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                          • stevoswan
                            Veterans List
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 8543

                            Originally posted by Aprilbr
                            If JD was a restricted free agent we would have had the chance to match Adelaide's offer or to receive compensation decided by the AFL formula. The latter would have yielded better than what we received in this case given JD's 5 year, high $ contract and his age. There is something not working when we get a worse deal for a player coming into his prime that occurs well before he reached free agency status.
                            +1

                            Comment

                            • WomblingFree
                              Warming the Bench
                              • Sep 2021
                              • 104

                              Adelaide are starting to get some form re taking players to the PSD and I fully expect them to extory Gold Coast for one of Lukoscious or Rankine next year if nothing is done.

                              As has been pointed out before I don't see any point for the PSD going forward and it should be abaloished. Delisted players should be able to be picked up as delisted free agents.

                              There are two scenarios really I see for resolving issues like this in the future
                              (1) The provision of a truly independent arbitration body that assigns a fair value that is binding on both parties after a hearing.
                              (2) That players go through to the National Draft in the instance of a trade not being finalised

                              Comment

                              • Aprilbr
                                Senior Player
                                • Oct 2016
                                • 1803

                                Originally posted by WomblingFree
                                Adelaide are starting to get some form re taking players to the PSD and I fully expect them to extory Gold Coast for one of Lukoscious or Rankine next year if nothing is done.

                                As has been pointed out before I don't see any point for the PSD going forward and it should be abaloished. Delisted players should be able to be picked up as delisted free agents.

                                There are two scenarios really I see for resolving issues like this in the future
                                (1) The provision of a truly independent arbitration body that assigns a fair value that is binding on both parties after a hearing.
                                (2) That players go through to the National Draft in the instance of a trade not being finalised
                                Great ideas, WF. I would love those two amendments to be implemented.

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