2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Aprilbr]

Analysts on First Crack on Fox Footy tonight arguing that Dawson is worth less than Adelaide's first pick no. 4 but more than Port's first pick of 16. Seems about where we should be heading with this. Ideally a top 10 pick, if not then just a few picks above it.

[Steve]

A few things to consider regarding trade compo for Dawson:

1. The top 10 in this draft is not very interesting for the Swans. The best action will come between picks 11 and 30. We should be looking for KPPs and except for Sam Darcy, who's going to WB, only Jye Amiss is a serious chance to go top 10, who I think may go to WCE who get to choose 2 picks earlier than us.
2. If we trade with Adelaide, it's not worth going after pick 4. If anything, we could try for their 2022 first rounder. Their 2nd round picks from both 2021 and 2022 could be a deal maker and I would take it, if offered.
3. If we trade with PA, one of their ruckmen might be interesting to get as part of a deal. We should remember that Ladhams and Hayes are contracted for next year, so they don't have to be part of any deal. It's their choice to stay or go. Ladhams is getting regular game time, and is a serious chance to become their #1 ruckman, so he's going to be hard to get, given he would be behind Hickey. Sam Hayes hasn't played an AFL game. It's hard to say what he's worth, or if he'd consider being part of a trade. We would have to look at this more closely.
4. Port's pick 16 is not bad in this draft. It would almost assuredly get us a couple of food quality KPPs. If we get an end of 2nd round pick for Hewett, we might be able to trade that off for Port's 2022 2nd rounder as part of a deal.
5. Going into this year's draft with picks 12, 16 and 31, before priority picks, is not too shabby, given our needs.
6. Threatening to send Dawson to the PSD is probably a hollow threat. I think the 3 clubs before the Crows are unlikely to get in the way of a deal. Why cause bad blood? If I were North or GC, I might consider grabbing Dawson in the PSD and trade him next year for a 1st round pick. It's a way to pick up a first rounder on the cheap. I don't think Dawson would sit out the year. But most club think this is dirty business, which is why it rarely happens.

If Port Adelaide is his preference, as has been suggested, then the threat of Adelaide taking him in the PSD is worth us pushing for us much as we can with Port.

I'm genuinely not excited by getting a pick in the late teens or early 20's from either team. It feels like a real punt taking a tall at that point - I would argue that any player considered a "good quality KPP" would be taken a lot earlier, and by extension one taken late 1st round to early 2nd round is more punt/prospect which could be very hit-and-miss.

We're already struggling to give opportunities to young players we've recently drafted (ie. Stephens) so there's not much value in picking up any more who won't get a game ahead of all our other youngsters. And the ultra cynical view would be that if we draft a couple of guns in the 12-20 range who play 40 games in their first 2 years and are stars of the future, we won't be able to afford to offer them decent contracts to stay beyond their first base contracts.

We normally take a defeatist attitude into trades where a player is leaving - accepting unders because we hadn't tried all that hard to keep the player anyway so don't have much of a negotiating position. But given we have pick 12 (which we won't be trading for an established player due to salary cap), and we have so many promising youngsters already on our list, I just think it's a legitimate position to take with Port) to say that their first pick on it's own is just not that enticing for us, and we're OK losing Dawson for nothing if it came to it.

And of course that would still leave a window ajar to have Dawson re-think his options if a trade can't be done - a la Ryan O'Keefe.

I would much prefer to just get Ladhams as a swap, even though we should ask for more. No doubt Port would want to keep Ladhams, but if they want Dawson we should force them to make a choice.

[Aprilbr]

Port's first pick together with Ladhams would be brilliant but sadly I doubt it will happen. I'm pretty sure Lads had zero interest in coming to us last season when he was sounded out because of our ruck situation. The other untried ruck hope is probably more realistic, Sam Hayes, but he is under contract so will be hard to move as well unless we offer him a lot.

[Bangalore Swans]

I can only assume that in making such a bizarre suggestion you are having a joke with us? We are talking about full-time, professional footballers who train, attend meetings etc for a full week. Working virtually is not an option. Surely you are smart enough to see that?

Chris Langford did that in his final Hawks years. Worked a day job out of Sydney and traveled to Melbourne to play for the Hawks on the weekends. My understanding was that he used to train at the North Shore club to maintain fitness during the week.

You may think my suggestion in bizarre, but remote work is happening in all industries around the world. He can attend all meetings virtually like any other industry. Does he need to be around all the other footballers to lift weights, do rehab and run laps? He could be there for the main training session. In short turnaround weeks he might remain with the group. He would still be a full time footballer, just working a lot by himself. According to Ludwig, he’s an introverted personality so working alone may suit him.

It hasn’t been tried since Langford but it hardly means it’s bizarre. I thought this forum was a medium to propose some left field ideas.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Reserve grade groupies, then the pandemic doesn't exist and it'll all be over by Christmas, and finally FIFO players.
What a rich vein of creativity you're in BS.

[Bangalore Swans]

Reserve grade groupies, then the pandemic doesn't exist and it'll all be over by Christmas, and finally FIFO players.
What a rich vein of creativity you're in BS.

I have never said the Pandemic didn’t exist.

Morrison hopes to get the domestic borders open by Christmas. Im repeating what the PM said.

FIFO players is an idea for homesick players.

I’m having a spell.

[gloveski]

Maybe, but that’s not what he said just a month or so ago. Either something has happened in the meantime that has changed his mind completely or he is simply a very good liar. Tom and Charlie seemed to have bought it. Both SA teams like to try bringing players back home once they’ve established themselves elsewhere, so reckon they’ve both got to him at some point in recent weeks (perhaps during those solo stints in the gym?)

$$


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[Faunac8]

I thought this forum was a medium to propose some left field ideas.

There are probably a number of reasons why the remote player practice hasn’t occurred , at least as far as I am aware, since the 1990’s
Chris Langford was a four time premiership player who had captained the team as well so had given plenty of time to the club and had earned some concessions from the club. He wasn’t a full time professional player at that stage either.
No club in today’s fully professional era is going to even contemplate such a concession to a player who has notified them that he doesn’t want to be part of their program

As a self confessed fan of USA sports maybe you should be more aware of the potential origin of the expression
The phrase "way out in left field" has evolved to mean an eccentric, odd, misguided or peculiar statement or act. The origin lies in the West Side Grounds that the Chicago Cubs called home from 1893 to 1915. As legend has it, a mental hospital was located directly behind the left field wall. The institute housed mental patients who could be heard making strange and bizarre comments within listening distance of players and fans. Thus, if someone said that you were "way out in left field," the person was questioning your sanity and comparing you with a mental patient.

[goswannies]

As a self confessed fan of USA sports maybe you should be more aware of the potential origin of the expression
The phrase "way out in left field" has evolved to mean an eccentric, odd, misguided or peculiar statement or act. The origin lies in the West Side Grounds that the Chicago Cubs called home from 1893 to 1915. As legend has it, a mental hospital was located directly behind the left field wall. The institute housed mental patients who could be heard making strange and bizarre comments within listening distance of players and fans. Thus, if someone said that you were "way out in left field," the person was questioning your sanity and comparing you with a mental patient.

Every now and then there is a magical post on RWO.

Jackpot

[KTigers]

Every now and then there is a magical post on RWO.

Jackpot

I agree. I follow MLB and use that phrase all the time but never knew the connection.

[Roadrunner]

Chris Langford did that in his final Hawks years. Worked a day job out of Sydney and traveled to Melbourne to play for the Hawks on the weekends. My understanding was that he used to train at the North Shore club to maintain fitness during the week.

You may think my suggestion in bizarre, but remote work is happening in all industries around the world. He can attend all meetings virtually like any other industry. Does he need to be around all the other footballers to lift weights, do rehab and run laps? He could be there for the main training session. In short turnaround weeks he might remain with the group. He would still be a full time footballer, just working a lot by himself. According to Ludwig, he’s an introverted personality so working alone may suit him.

It hasn’t been tried since Langford but it hardly means it’s bizarre. I thought this forum was a medium to propose some left field ideas.

Please don’t give up Bangalore- love your comments even though some are a bit daft! But what the heck, this is a fan’s forum so we can all air our ideas and not worry about possible ridicule. Just look at TB- he has been pretty well behaved of late but can come out with his usual beauty any time soon!

Hi BT!

Emotions are still running high re Dawson, but let’s accept he does want to play for us and then get the best possible trade, eg Ladhams. Let’s try to force him into a swap- the pain will still linger on but then again we will feel a bit better!

[Aprilbr]

Speaking of Ladhams, I was talking to my close friend about the two preliminary finals on the weekend and the losing teams. When we discussed who might be in trouble from those losing teams, he singled out Rohan for Geelong and Ladhams for Port who he felt was not up to it. In his words, he is big and strong but just runs around doing very little.

I said to him in response that this is an interesting observation for Swans' supporters as Ladhams might be a player that the Swans would look at as part of a potential swap involving Dawson. He remarked that he would not do it if he was the Swans. So Ladhams may be of questionable value? Obviously, my friend is not the Oracle but he is a pretty astute football judge. What do others think about Ladhams? He has looked ok to me when I have watched Port. He has the potential to develop and he has received more senior games this season.

[Aprilbr]

Chris Langford did that in his final Hawks years. Worked a day job out of Sydney and traveled to Melbourne to play for the Hawks on the weekends. My understanding was that he used to train at the North Shore club to maintain fitness during the week.

You may think my suggestion in bizarre, but remote work is happening in all industries around the world. He can attend all meetings virtually like any other industry. Does he need to be around all the other footballers to lift weights, do rehab and run laps? He could be there for the main training session. In short turnaround weeks he might remain with the group. He would still be a full time footballer, just working a lot by himself. According to Ludwig, he’s an introverted personality so working alone may suit him.

It hasn’t been tried since Langford but it hardly means it’s bizarre. I thought this forum was a medium to propose some left field ideas.

Well it is certainly "left field" to say the least. I think you can take it to the Bank that Dawson will not be playing for us next season as a "virtual player/commuter".

For those who have not listened to the Swans podcast about our move to Sydney, one section talks about our first season in Sydney in 1982. Half the players were based and training in South Melbourne and half in Sydney with the former group commuting to play on the weekends. Needless to say it was a disaster, and several of the Melbourne-based players eg Foschini and Paul Morwood left at the end of that first season.

[barry]

I have never said the Pandemic didn’t exist.

Morrison hopes to get the domestic borders open by Christmas. Im repeating what the PM said.

The pm doesn't control state borders, so he's basically howling at the moon.

FIFO players is an idea for homesick player.

Nah. Your either all-in, or your out.

[mcs]

I'd prefer us to take a punt on the young one (Hayes is it?) then Ladhams. A member of my extended family broadly follows Port (he watches a lot AFL broadly as was very late to the game - but if he had a 'team' it would be Port), and his view is similar on Ladhams.