2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Auntie.Gerald]

Agree BS

I suppose what scared me at the time was where his baseline was at.

Nothing like a parabolic curve of development and professionalism .....up and to the right ?? ????

[Markwebbos]

The Mongrel Punt has a list of the 20 best under 20 and we’ve got 3 (paywalled)

McDonald (20)
Campbell (16)
Errol (2)

The Top 20 Aged 20-Or-Under - The Mongrel Punt

[bloodspirit]

The Mongrel Punt has a list of the 20 best under 20 and we’ve got 3 (paywalled)

McDonald (20)
Campbell (16)
Errol (2)

The Top 20 Aged 20-Or-Under - The Mongrel Punt

Who was #1 - Daicos? Interesting that they've rated Campbell ahead of McDonald. Interesting also that both of those are in their top 20 given that they don't yet have many runs on the board. I guess that's the way it is when you're still in your first two seasons. Did JUH, Thilthorpe and Tanner Bruhn make the list? I reckon Rachele deserves to be high up. Holmes, Amiss, Gibcus, Ward and Hollands should also feature on the list somewhere.

[707]

According to the AFL draft pick allocation, we have 5 main list vacancies.

Is it only McLean we must upgrade or is there another?

[wolftone57]

According to the AFL draft pick allocation, we have 5 main list vacancies.

Is it only McLean we must upgrade or is there another?

Fox, McCartin

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[liz]

Fox, McCartin

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Neither Fox nor McCartin has to be upgraded. A player can spend three seasons on the rookie list after being initially placed there. Fox has now spent two, McCartin one. (Remembering that Fox was on the senior list for a while before being delisted and placed back on the rookie list at the start of 2021.)

McLean and Wicks have both had three years on the rookie list.

[707]

So it's McLean and Wicks who have to be upgraded leaving us to use our first three picks at the ND.

Gives us a Cat A rookie list of up to four (Fox, McCartin) plus up to two? Cat B which I assume are Sheather and McAndrew? How do others read it?

BTW, we're not the only group of supporters trying to work out list permutations, seems to be most clubs.

[liz]

So it's McLean and Wicks who have to be upgraded leaving us to use our first three picks at the ND.

Gives us a Cat A rookie list of up to four (Fox, McCartin) plus up to two? Cat B which I assume are Sheather and McAndrew? How do others read it?

BTW, we're not the only group of supporters trying to work out list permutations, seems to be most clubs.

McAndrew is not, never was a Cat B rookie. He was taken in the MSD and thus would have been put onto the Cat A rookie list. Even if he might have been put onto the Cat B list, we had our full quota of two at the time (O'Connor and Sheather).

I don't know for sure, but I suspect the list spots determined by the AFL have already taken account of rookie upgrades.

The list spots available in the ND assume that a club will fill its senior list to the maximum capacity - ie 38. In most recent years, the Swans have chosen to hold a smaller senior list (36) and thus a larger rookie list (6). If they go that way again, you would expect them to take three picks and pass on the last two.

The Cat B rookie list is in addition to the maximum of six allowed on the Cat A list (or four if a club has a senior list of 38). I have no idea if Sheather remains a Cat B rookie. Normally a player is only allowed to spend two years as at Cat B rookie but the club might have applied for permission to leave him there for another season.

We already hold four on the Cat A rookie list (assuming Sheather remains a Cat B rookie, and Wicks and McLean are now on the senior list) - McAndrew and HHK in addition to the two you mention.

So our likely full quota of picks will be three onto the senior list, two onto the Cat A list and maybe one onto the Cat B list. (Will Edwards is the only one nominated at this stage, though there may be others eligible to join the Cat B list once the ND is over and the rookie draft about to start.)

As a check, you can balance the ins and outs - Kennedy, Naismith, Bell, Sinclair, Ronke, O'Riordan out from the senior list. Francis, Wicks and McLean in. Net decrease of 3.
Taylor, Wicks and McLean out from the Cat A list, Hall-Kahan in (as he wasn't included in list numbers at the start of the year). Net decrease of 2.
O'Connor off the Cat B list. Net decrease of 1.

So if the club keeps the composition of the list the same as last year, that leaves us with the ability to add three to the senior list, two to the Cat A rookie list and one to the Cat B rookie list. Which is the same answer as arrived at above.

[707]

Have you got it all on a whiteboard Liz? Seems the only way to keep track of lists.

The draft picks seem to be allocated before upgrades as Adelaide has three picks but will only take one player because the other two spots are needed for two upgrades.

That would indicate we can use three at the ND and the other two are for McLean and Wicks. We're a long way down the pecking order in the RD, pick 17.

Be easier if the club just posted a pic of their whiteboard for us all to see LOL All be much clearer in eight days time.

[liz]

Have you got it all on a whiteboard Liz? Seems the only way to keep track of lists.

The draft picks seem to be allocated before upgrades as Adelaide has three picks but will only take one player because the other two spots are needed for two upgrades.

That would indicate we can use three at the ND and the other two are for McLean and Wicks. We're a long way down the pecking order in the RD, pick 17.

Be easier if the club just posted a pic of their whiteboard for us all to see LOL All be much clearer in eight days time.

If the list spots were before taking account of rookie elevations, the AFL would have given us seven picks in the National Draft.

We started with a senior list of 36, lost six and added one, leaving 31 senior listed players. We would then have seven picks available to take us to the maximum of 38.

You can therefore deduce that the list spots (and thus allocated picks in the National Draft) must be after rookie elevations.

I have heard a few comment that Adelaide will only take one player in the ND but I don't know how that works. The standard rule has, for a long time, been that clubs have to take at least three players in the National Draft, but that one of those spots (but not more than one) can be accounted for by an elevated rookie.

IIRC correctly they temporarily tweaked this after the 2020 season when list sizes where trimmed down in the COVID-affected period. But my understanding was that this was a one-off change only.

I guess we'll see next Monday/Tuesday how many players the Crows take in the ND. I believe it will be at least two.

[Ludwig]

Trying to keep track of AFL rules falls somewhere between courage and insanity.

BTW 707, I've been using an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of players. A 9x5 grid works well. You can move the players around with the mouse. It's just like moving magnets on a whiteboard. And it's easy to keep track of player numbers, even if you are a fingers and toes counter.

[707]

It all just makes my head explode at times :-) and I'm a numbers type of guy!

I've gone through the 2022 list name by name to understand it, on an xls, as the club won't send me that whiteboard pic.

We have 31 on the main list

Upgrade McLean and Wicks gets us to 33

Draft three players takes us to 36 which has been our usual practice in the recent past

Positions 37 & 38 can be as main list or rookie list

We have four on the Cat A rookie list, Fox, P McCartin, McAndrew, Hall-Khan

We have Sheather on the Cat B rookie list, we don't know if he needs to be moved to the Cat A list.

If we draft three players in the ND, we then have either two Cat A and one Cat B or one Cat A and two Cat B vacancies

[Ludwig]

It all just makes my head explode at times :-) and I'm a numbers type of guy!

I usually like going into the detail of those sorts of things, but wrote in a previous post that I stopped doing the rookie list count, because it just wasn't worth the bother.

For one, Liz is always on top of these things and rarely, if ever, makes a mistake. So we already have someone on here doing a very accurate count.

The second thing is that the numbers between main list and rookie list is easy to fix up to fall into the AFL slots, so it's not worth sweating over when you know its going to work out in the end. I try to keep track of the open list spots in total, which I find leads to the right answer when draft night rolls around.

[dejavoodoo44]

Trying to keep track of AFL rules falls somewhere between courage and insanity.

I know; I've long given up. However, I always find Liz's explanations convincing. So on that basis, I think we should nominate her, to take over Brad Scott's old job of AFL's Head of Football (whatever that is).

[liz]

We now have 3 sets of brothers at the club! (The Warners, McCartins & McVeighs).

Actually four. If you're going to count Mark McVeigh as academy coach, surely you should also count the VFL squad?