2022 List management, trading, drafting

[bloodspirit]

I still have hopes that Amartey will be a key marking full forward with Logan being the CHF because of his mobility and kicking. I don't see McLean in the future for key forward role. With Sam and Buddy playing 2023 as their last year, we do need another key position forward, perhaps Francis will develop into that role but at this stage not holding my breath. Maybe as some have said, Blakey will develop into that mobile key forward.

I wouldn't be so quick to write Reid off. 2023 might be his last season but I reckon he's every chance to go on.

The club has said we didn't draft Francis to play forward so I'm taking them at their word, despite his experience in that department.

I'm with deja in not thinking Blakey is the answer forward. It took a long while but Blakey has found a role he excels at and that I think he still has room to further improve at. I wouldn't rule out him ever playing forward but I would hope such a move is at least 5 years away, when he has learned a lot more and got a much more seasoned body.

I don't have much to say about Himmelberg although I don't mind the idea of getting a competent, non-superstar KPF. However they are all hard to come by (possibly Dan McStay excepted). Mabior Chol was a good get (for the Suns) in this department.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I've always liked Himmelberg, not because he's the greatest forward in the game - but he's bloody dependable, and he'd be a natural complement to Logan.

He has a taste for the hard, bullocking, crash packing work; can take a good grab; has good skills and whilst he's not the greatest set shot technically, is sound enough and the results are there. (And as he showed last year, he's versatile enough to occasionally go down back and do well). I reckon his willingness to take on the grunt work would work well alongside Logan's natural and building ability to roam far and wide.

[Mountain Man]

I've said before that McLean's position is dependant on his usefulness to the game plan - which might also depend on the matchups for a particular team.

McLean is barely a ruck relief option; and lacks mobility.

BUT he is a very strong contented mark, and a very reliable and accurate goal kicker.

Therefore, sitting him in the goal square with a limited range allows:

* plenty of space for the more mobile talls (say McDonald and Armarty)
* a reliable target if the above talls are well covered
* a Predictable front and centre location for Papley and other smalls
* and, Heaney and Haywood are always dangerous in the forward 1/4 and increasingly up field.

I love the fast game plan we have developed over the past few years. It has been effective and fun to watch. But I do see occasions where Plan B would be effective both for scoring, and for maintaining pressure at the right end of the field.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Leon
MM..

They would have close relationships with GWS talent

[bloodspirit]

Leon
MM..

They would have close relationships with GWS talent

As in if we want to prise HH away from GWS?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

The distinction between FF and CHF has faded form many teams, with forward shuffling positions and who plays out of the goal square. If you have a distinctive forward combo, like Geelong's Hawkins and Cameron, you still do see that standard formation.

I've said the same about Blakey, and we have a #1 forward draft pick playing as a defender. So we do have options on board to form a strong forward line even without Amartey and McLean. It's easier to fill defender roles than forwards, I also think that both Gould and Francis will be okay in defence. So we have some coverage to transition to over the next couple of years.

With KPP retirements pending, there's always some apprehension about how the transition will go. Given that we have the rest of the ground covered, we can focus the next couple of years on finding the a good solution. It's not like we are missing loads of players. Just one more high quality tall should do it.

I made the same point about Blakey, and the comparative value about forwards and backs this time three years ago. However, I'm now far less sure about his ability to become a forward. I think the other backs need to learn to give him some protection from tags (or he learns how to deal with them himself) - because if he can get loose he will be an extraordinary (maybe generational) resource coming out of defence.

As for our forwards, I'd like to see Sam and Logan working together, with Buddy taking advantage of the rule change and becoming a permanent super sub. I also realy liked what the Cats did with their rucks, I'd like to see us with one genuine ruck and then 2 relief rucks.

At the moment McLean isn't good enough to be a relief ruck, I really hope we can find a way for him to become an effective relief, because that would help compensate for his weaknesses with ground balls and general manoeuvrability - although fixing either of those shortcomings would also help him find a permanent place in the 22.

As for HarryH, after what I saw when he went back, I can't see why he'd go forward again - with us or the Giants.

[KSAS]

Can Sam Naismith feel legit aggrieved by his delisting given how the club were seemingly more patient with Alex Johnson's multiple knee recos? I'm not implying club were impatient or treated him unfairly, as they did stick by him evident giving 3 year contract after his 2nd knee reco.

Sam's side of the story after his last knee reco was club were not going to rush him back by giving him 2 seasons to get his body right for the longer term. Hence his frustration when delisted as he felt his body finally strong without getting chance to prove himself. Will get chance next season playing for Port Melbourne in the VFL and interesting when he plays against our VFL team.

Personally, I think the club learnt lesson from the Alex Johnson experience. As noble as they were with their extraordinary patience & admiration of Alex's courage, it came to a cruel end serving no practical purpose in a ruthless business.

Similar lesson l think club has learnt with Buddy's 9 year contract. Not suggesting it was failure, rather to the contrary it has been good for both. But it did have unforeseen ramifications with our salary cap management (particularly with covid) and reckon they'll think twice before offering a big contract offer to lure a generational player like Buddy. We're on a retention strategy with our young talented list and can't see us having the means to lure a legit superstar in the foreseeable future.

[bloodspirit]

Sam Naismith can feel however he likes, he's a human being. But I absolutely don't think the club has anything to apologise for. Naismith was lucky to be extended both of his last contract extensions, especially the last one when he had been injured for ages and still hadn't returned at senior level and they re-signed him mid-season. The fact that they kept him wrapped in cotton wool last year was either very respectful to him or simply acting on the appropriate medical advice - if they didn't care about him they could have just made him play sooner.

I don't see Buddy's contract as a cautionary tale and I can't see why the club wouldn't do exactly the same deal all over again, given the opportunity. If anything I think it's worked out well for us because there was a real risk he wouldn't play the whole 9 years, but he did (if you don't count the year off injured - which he's making up for now with an extra season anyway).

[Blood Fever]

Can Sam Naismith feel legit aggrieved by his delisting given how the club were seemingly more patient with Alex Johnson's multiple knee recos? I'm not implying club were impatient or treated him unfairly, as they did stick by him evident giving 3 year contract after his 2nd knee reco.

Sam's side of the story after his last knee reco was club were not going to rush him back by giving him 2 seasons to get his body right for the longer term. Hence his frustration when delisted as he felt his body finally strong without getting chance to prove himself. Will get chance next season playing for Port Melbourne in the VFL and interesting when he plays against our VFL team.

Personally, I think the club learnt lesson from the Alex Johnson experience. As noble as they were with their extraordinary patience & admiration of Alex's courage, it came to a cruel end serving no practical purpose in a ruthless business.

Similar lesson l think club has learnt with Buddy's 9 year contract. Not suggesting it was failure, rather to the contrary it has been good for both. But it did have unforeseen ramifications with our salary cap management (particularly with covid) and reckon they'll think twice before offering a big contract offer to lure a generational player like Buddy. We're on a retention strategy with our young talented list and can't see us having the means to lure a legit superstar in the foreseeable future.

Naismith would have been cut a number of years ago at another club.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Similar lesson l think club has learnt with Buddy's 9 year contract. Not suggesting it was failure, rather to the contrary it has been good for both. But it did have unforeseen ramifications with our salary cap management (particularly with covid) and reckon they'll think twice before offering a big contract offer to lure a generational player like Buddy.

The salary cap ramifications were emphatically NOT unforeseen. They were made abundantly clear on this forum, and those doing so were bullied, accusations of disloyalty were frequently deployed. Some RWOers left permanently, some took a break for a few years - it was not RWO's best moment.
And I appreciate it all happened long before you joined RWO, KSAS, so please don't feel I'm having a go at you - just asking you to take Basil Fawlty's advise, and . . . "don't mention the war."

[BRS328]

The comparison with AJ and Sam Naismith is a little unfair. AJ was a premiership player who had only just turned 21 when he had his first ACL, and clearly was worth putting time into his recovery given his age.
Sam is over 30, and I am sure a number of clubs would have looked at him and decided it was to bigger risk.

While I agree with you on 9 year contracts, I still believe something is brewing post Buddies retirement. Having loaded up on draft picks for 2023 it’s highly unlikely we are embarking on a rebuild strategy, which in my mind points to landing a marquee player.

[MattW]

Naismith had a good run. Instinct is that he could have still contributed, but we may not have picked up Owen, who's an intriguing pick.

[KSAS]

And I appreciate it all happened long before you joined RWO, KSAS, so please don't feel I'm having a go at you - just asking you to take Basil Fawlty's advise, and . . . "don't mention the war."

"I may've accidently mentioned it but think I got away with it"

[Auntie.Gerald]

Scouting Notes: 2020 SANFL Under 18s - Round 3 - Aussie Rules Rookie Me Central

Interesting write up on Roberts and Magor in 2020

[Auntie.Gerald]

We lost by only 1 point to the Pies before the GF this season

We have lost Kennedy for 2023 but brought in Francis via a trade. The Pies have traded in some serious fire power in comparison but also lost two good players. One of them if he can recover well from a knee reconstruction is elite.

At the Pies

Who arrived: Tom Mitchell, Dan McStay, Bobby Hill, Billy Frampton

Who left: Brodie Grundy, Oliver Henry

Couldn't help but think the Pies have advanced considerably via their trades and are arguably just as ready as we are if not more so to take on the top4 in 2023.