2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Ludwig]

So, similar to basketball.

But what about stoppages around the ground?

I haven't thought about it much and I don't think I will, since it's something that's never going to happen. I'm not about to invent a new imaginary game.

Theoretically, I like the idea of a game with all players conforming to the same rules, rather than having a designated player who follows a different set of rules. Changing Aussie Rules to declassify the ruckman would be analogous to eliminating the goalie in Soccer or Hockey. I actually like the idea, but I doubt many would agree.

[Meg]

2022 List management, trading, drafting

Changing Aussie Rules to declassify the ruckman would be analogous to eliminating the goalie in Soccer or Hockey. I actually like the idea, but I doubt many would agree.

You might be on to something with that comparison. In field hockey, if a team desperately needs a goal to win or even the score in the last 5 minutes (or so), I’ve seen them do away with the goalie and play him (only seen it done in men’s game) into the field.

It makes for exciting, nail-biting viewing.

I guess we sometimes see the equivalent in footy when one team doesn’t nominate a ruck at a field stoppage.

[liz]

I haven't thought about it much and I don't think I will, since it's something that's never going to happen. I'm not about to invent a new imaginary game.

Theoretically, I like the idea of a game with all players conforming to the same rules, rather than having a designated player who follows a different set of rules. Changing Aussie Rules to declassify the ruckman would be analogous to eliminating the goalie in Soccer or Hockey. I actually like the idea, but I doubt many would agree.

There aren't designated players who play to a different set of rules. The rules apply to the contest, not to the player. Any player can nominate as ruckman at a stoppage (so long as a team mate hasn't already done so). In every other contest, players who often contest ruck contests play to the exact same rules as every other player.

And ruck contests aren't the only ones where specific rules apply. For example, you can't shepherd an opponent out of a marking contest (theoretically), whereas around the ground you can shepherd a player away from a team mate who has possession, or is aiming to win possession.

[Goal Sneak]

I'm very much enjoying this tangent and now trying to think of another / better way to deal with stoppages around the ground.

My first thought is to place the ball on the ground and have a cleared 10m circle around the stationary ball. Blow the whistle and game on!

I think this is worthy of it's own thread as it doesn't have much to do with list management.

[royboy42]

Way too much focus on the ruckman as a player position. A ruckman needs to be a tallish player who is a good footballer. Max Gawn is a star because he's an excellent footballer who happens to be very tall as well. A few good 2 metre or thereabouts footballers are always a positive for a team list. They are not that easy to find. I would be looking to draft tall KPPs this year, but they don't have to be specialist ruckmen.

Toby Greene has been an ill disciplined footballer. He's missed a lot of games because of it, but he's still a great footballer. I don't know how good Ladhams can be, but he can still be a good ruckman, even if he happens to miss some games because of stupid acts.

I think Hickey should go until 2024 when he will be 33.

Hopefully the AFL will put an end to the ruck nomination rule. It looks silly. It is silly.

I think the ruck nomination was to stop the third man up?
Cure much worse than the problem.

[bloodspirit]

I'm very much enjoying this tangent and now trying to think of another / better way to deal with stoppages around the ground.

My first thought is to place the ball on the ground and have a cleared 10m circle around the stationary ball. Blow the whistle and game on!

OMG! That sounds brutal.

[ugg]

.

For example, instead of having a centre bounce after a goal, I would prefer a kick-in, just like when a behind is scored.

.

They do this in International Rules for an “over” and in my opinion this is one of the reasons the game isn’t as enjoyable. With a kick-in there is no time to celebrate the goal (or over) and it takes much of the enjoyment out of watching (and I suspect playing) the game.

[Markwebbos]

I'm very much enjoying this tangent and now trying to think of another / better way to deal with stoppages around the ground.

My first thought is to place the ball on the ground and have a cleared 10m circle around the stationary ball. Blow the whistle and game on!

I think this is worthy of it's own thread as it doesn't have much to do with list management.

Surely scrums and line outs would be much simpler

[Goal Sneak]

OMG! That sounds brutal.

Lol

Surely scrums and line outs would be much simpler

Yep, definitely has potential to turn into a "stacks on" type maul

[stevoswan]

They do this in International Rules for an “over” and in my opinion this is one of the reasons the game isn’t as enjoyable. With a kick-in there is no time to celebrate the goal (or over) and it takes much of the enjoyment out of watching (and I suspect playing) the game.

Agree. More importantly, you cannot have a situation where potentially the ball gets stuck at one end of the ground......teams will just send there defenders up the ground and lock it in. Also, the 6-6-6 rule is suddenly out the window.

It's a silly idea. A reset in the middle of the ground is fair, the kick out idea is certainly not. Any rule changes should be fair and equitable.....and be rooted in common sense.

[stevoswan]

I think the ruck nomination was to stop the third man up?
Cure much worse than the problem.

I never really had a problem with 'third man up' but if the AFL still believe it's a blight worth avoiding I just wish they would stop the 'nominate' crap.....just let two players from each side contest it without nominating. It would be up to each side to work this out and the umpire could just shut the F up. I, for one, would like to hear their whiney 'faux authority' voices a lot less during a game and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Way too much focus on the ruckman as a player position.

I don't like the whole idea of ruck contests.

A Ruckman is a waste of a draft pick.

I've long been an advocate of the No Ruck setup, unless the team has a dominant ruckman. The no ruck system is always a viable option.

Gosh that's a lot of strong opinions on the ruck - if you're under 6ft5 Ludwig, maybe you should consider declaring that you have a conflict of interest when commenting on the big guys?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I, for one, would like to hear their whiney 'faux authority' voices a lot less during a game and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Leaving aside the voices, it worries me that today's umpires can't find 80 free kicks a game.

[Ludwig]

Okay. I'll give a quick alternative to the current ruck rules since there's been so much comment on it.

1. Each quarter can start the same as present. So no change. An alternative to this would be to alternate a free kick to each team in the centre square to start things off.
2. After a goal, there is a 30 second break to allow teams to celebrate and make interchanges. The defensive team must vacate the forward 50 leaving it open to the kick-in team to gain more space. Once the ball leaves the goal square, the defensive team can return players to the forward 50.
3. Out of bounds throw ins are similar to a play-on situation, like a hand ball coming from the sideline. So not much different than regular play.
4. On in bound stoppages, the umpire chooses the 2 closest players to the stoppage from opposite sides to contest the toss up, similar to a jump ball situation in basketball.

I appreciate Liz' comment that there aren't special players, but rather special contests, like ruck contests and marking contests and there are rules that apply to these contests. So I would be looking to effectively eliminate the need for a type of player, a ruckman, who has special attributes favourable to the way stoppages are handled by the current rules. This is different than marking contests, which take place in general play and although taller players are favoured by contests in the air, anyone can compete in these contests, rather than only 2 designated players.

[stevoswan]

Okay. I'll give a quick alternative to the current ruck rules since there's been so much comment on it.

1. Each quarter can start the same as present. So no change. An alternative to this would be to alternate a free kick to each team in the centre square to start things off.
2. After a goal, there is a 30 second break to allow teams to celebrate and make interchanges. The defensive team must vacate the forward 50 leaving it open to the kick-in team to gain more space. Once the ball leaves the goal square, the defensive team can return players to the forward 50.
3. Out of bounds throw ins are similar to a play-on situation, like a hand ball coming from the sideline. So not much different than regular play.
4. On in bound stoppages, the umpire chooses the 2 closest players to the stoppage from opposite sides to contest the toss up, similar to a jump ball situation in basketball.

I appreciate Liz' comment that there aren't special players, but rather special contests, like ruck contests and marking contests and there are rules that apply to these contests. So I would be looking to effectively eliminate the need for a type of player, a ruckman, who has special attributes favourable to the way stoppages are handled by the current rules. This is different than marking contests, which take place in general play and although taller players are favoured by contests in the air, anyone can compete in these contests, rather than only 2 designated players.

Not sure whether some of those points are attempts at humour or actually serious, Ludwig. What I will say is this, the rule should be simple: 'A ruck contest can only take place between two opposing players'....they should not have to be 'designated', they just have to be 'opposing'. If a team can't get their act together on this and a third player enters the contest, a free will be awarded against the offending team. The umps will sound less 'controlling' and can now just shut TF up.

I also think the game should always start back in the middle after a goal. It's the only fair way and is frankly, common sense. We need more common sense in the rules of our game....note to the AFL and fans of unnecessary change.