Hawthorn racism review

[liz]

It's a pity that even the link I provided doesn't link to the actual terms of reference but just paraphrases them. Something that was unclear to me from that statement - but which has been reported by afl.com.au - is that the terms of reference, unlike the original review by Hawthorn, are limited to the period from 2008-2016 and, perhaps also, only to a subset of the players that were considered in the original Hawthorn review.

I don't think it is true that the period covered is narrower than the original Hawthorn review. I've had a very quick look to find a source but haven't located one, but I believe the period covered is the same. There were some questions raised a few weeks ago about why the Hawthorn review focused just on that period.

[barry]

Whatever the scope is, you can be sure its set to limit the damage to the AFL brand with what they can get away with. If there is a time limit, then its set to whats publicly known and to minimize the scope to just hawthorn.
Nothing is more certain.

[Bloods05]

Whatever the scope is, you can be sure its set to limit the damage to the AFL brand with what they can get away with. If there is a time limit, then its set to whats publicly known and to minimize the scope to just hawthorn.
Nothing is more certain.

That is the real worry, that the AFL will just go into damage control mode and fudge the issue as much as they can. They are masters at it.

[aardvark]

That is the real worry, that the AFL will just go into damage control mode and fudge the issue as much as they can. They are masters at it.

If the players that made the accusations refuse to give evidence to the enquiry then I wouldn't expect anything less from the AFL. It's a large part of their job to protect the brand.

[bloodspirit]

Hawthorn racism review

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/is-the-aflw-ready-for-tiwi-magic-/101559104

‘...today, in the Tiwi Islands, it's the women's team that's going places.

So how much work is left to ensure the professional football industry will be a safe and supportive environment for these women?’

[wolftone57]

It's turned into a whitewash. Both coaches going ba k to work. AFL saying, nothing to see here. They people who complained are gone. @@@@. Typical AFL. Nothing changes. I think I might just follow Asian Aussie Rules

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[bloodspirit]

I didn't think they were before, but the full terms of reference for the investigation are now available: Notice of Investigation: Hawthorn Football Club (afl.com.au).

Overall I think the AFL is to be commended for:

(1) a process that is probably quite pioneering in terms of seeking to provide both Western legal system rigour and cultural safety; and

(2) for bankrolling the whole thing which isn't being done on the cheap at all. I imagine it will cost at least a handsome 6 figure amount.


In terms of qualifications on this praise, I would note that:

(a) the AFL apparently wants to have privileged visibility of the whole process as close as possible to real-time (so nothing will emerge and catch them by surprise); and

(b) the AFL wants to be able to make the "participants'" evidence confidential once they engage in the process according to the AFL Rules (it's not entirely clear to me but potentially by agreeing to participate, 'participants' may be obliged to keep their evidence secret going forward - so a form of NDA? - does anyone qualified have a different view after reading the Terms of Reference?).

There is a timetable for the procedures designed to ensure the conclusion will be arrived at by the date the AFL has requested, 22 December 2022.

[bloodspirit]

It seems that the guy heading up the 'independent' investigation panel, Bernard Quinn KC, has worked for the AFL at least once before: AFL news 2022: Concussion report, Paul McCrory, plagiarism claims, treatment of players, head knocks, review findings, latest (foxsports.com.au). No doubt he would like to get more work from them in the future. Unfortunately, for me, that diminishes at least the perception of his independence.

[Mr Magoo]

It seems that the guy heading up the 'independent' investigation panel, Bernard Quinn KC, has worked for the AFL at least once before: AFL news 2022: Concussion report, Paul McCrory, plagiarism claims, treatment of players, head knocks, review findings, latest (foxsports.com.au). No doubt he would like to get more work from them in the future. Unfortunately, for me, that diminishes at least the perception of his independence.

I think thats very unfair. Despite being quite fearless in the defence of a clients case , KCs have an overarching obligation to the courts and clients second, and KCs at this guys level are hardly working out where there next gig is coming from. Who would you suggest is a better person to investigate such matters and would lead such investigation with greater impartiality ??

[Rod_]

Over the years I have learnt that Ethnicity and culture is different for everyone. However we seem to apply the rules the same way for every situation. An analogy that we could apply is one I have from soccer. You don't want to play the French as you know they will fall over in the penalty box and there is not another player within 5m. (I am sure we all have seen the idiot on youtube that rolls about 10m to try and milk a penalty.)

Getting to the point. We apply the same rules to all players. Sometimes one or some will get special treatments and others won't. Or feel that way. I am sure that coach's have favorites, and other have abilities. When they have had a chance and don't make it, they are told to move on. Every year all clubs do this. I recall one coach saying this was the hardest thing they have to do each year. To tell a kid thanks but your journey finishes today.

Hope this does not turn out to be sour grapes and past players playing the French card... I have worked overseas and had exposure to many different types of peoples and beliefs. The hardest thing is to sack someone. Always have done this with dignity and with care. Been made redundant on a few occasions also - this hurts! How you move on and pick yourself up is where you are going next. I have learnt there is no going back and it is not where you have been or could have been.

Make this part of life's journey and improve or do better at the next thing you do.

Wait for the full AFL and club review and then cast comments. Make the review improve how this is handled going forward. You can't go back in time but teams can do better. (Just like 2022 grand final - what a ride just no chocolates in the last game)

You can't unhurt people. But you can learn, and not do it again intentionally.

End my comments.

Apart from the French (and this was done with satire) no race or religion was picked on.

[bloodspirit]

Not quite sure what you're saying, Rod_, but Cyril Rioli wasn't sacked. He walked away from Hawthorn FC because he didn't feel comfortable there. This is what triggered Hawthorn's review in the first place.

[Bloods05]

Over the years I have learnt that Ethnicity and culture is different for everyone. However we seem to apply the rules the same way for every situation. An analogy that we could apply is one I have from soccer. You don't want to play the French as you know they will fall over in the penalty box and there is not another player within 5m. (I am sure we all have seen the idiot on youtube that rolls about 10m to try and milk a penalty.)

Getting to the point. We apply the same rules to all players. Sometimes one or some will get special treatments and others won't. Or feel that way. I am sure that coach's have favorites, and other have abilities. When they have had a chance and don't make it, they are told to move on. Every year all clubs do this. I recall one coach saying this was the hardest thing they have to do each year. To tell a kid thanks but your journey finishes today.

Hope this does not turn out to be sour grapes and past players playing the French card... I have worked overseas and had exposure to many different types of peoples and beliefs. The hardest thing is to sack someone. Always have done this with dignity and with care. Been made redundant on a few occasions also - this hurts! How you move on and pick yourself up is where you are going next. I have learnt there is no going back and it is not where you have been or could have been.

Make this part of life's journey and improve or do better at the next thing you do.

Wait for the full AFL and club review and then cast comments. Make the review improve how this is handled going forward. You can't go back in time but teams can do better. (Just like 2022 grand final - what a ride just no chocolates in the last game)

You can't unhurt people. But you can learn, and not do it again intentionally.

End my comments.

Apart from the French (and this was done with satire) no race or religion was picked on.

Are you seriously suggesting these concerns have been raised by people who are aggrieved about having been sacked by the club? Or have I misread your comment? Because I really hope I have.

[stevoswan]

Are you seriously suggesting these concerns have been raised by people who are aggrieved about having been sacked by the club? Or have I misread your comment? Because I really hope I have.

Yeah, I sort of took it that way too. Like you, I hope I'm wrong.

[BRS328]

Excellent comments Rod.

Unfortunately you cannot change the past and re write history as many want to do. You learn from these experiences and try not to make the same mistakes again. Unfortunately many well intentioned people want to dwell in the past which in many cases adds to the problem

[joeykanga]

Over the years I have learnt that Ethnicity and culture is different for everyone. However we seem to apply the rules the same way for every situation. An analogy that we could apply is one I have from soccer. You don't want to play the French as you know they will fall over in the penalty box and there is not another player within 5m. (I am sure we all have seen the idiot on youtube that rolls about 10m to try and milk a penalty.)

Getting to the point. We apply the same rules to all players. Sometimes one or some will get special treatments and others won't. Or feel that way. I am sure that coach's have favorites, and other have abilities. When they have had a chance and don't make it, they are told to move on. Every year all clubs do this. I recall one coach saying this was the hardest thing they have to do each year. To tell a kid thanks but your journey finishes today.

Hope this does not turn out to be sour grapes and past players playing the French card... I have worked overseas and had exposure to many different types of peoples and beliefs. The hardest thing is to sack someone. Always have done this with dignity and with care. Been made redundant on a few occasions also - this hurts! How you move on and pick yourself up is where you are going next. I have learnt there is no going back and it is not where you have been or could have been.

Make this part of life's journey and improve or do better at the next thing you do.

Wait for the full AFL and club review and then cast comments. Make the review improve how this is handled going forward. You can't go back in time but teams can do better. (Just like 2022 grand final - what a ride just no chocolates in the last game)

You can't unhurt people. But you can learn, and not do it again intentionally.

End my comments.

Apart from the French (and this was done with satire) no race or religion was picked on.

I think the Italian soccer team would have been a better example