Match thread. THE GRAND FINAL!!! Swans v Cats.

[liz]

We don’t have true depth yet- will be better next year and beyond. That’s why realistically we weren’t supposed to challenge for the flag this year. Credit to the boys as we made it to the granny.

If you can ignore Saturday afternoon, our season has been quite remarkable and one our coaches should be proud of.

Of course, that's a big and raw "if", but you don't judge a coach (or a team) most insightfully when they are successful, but when they fail and get up and have another go.

[liz]

These two articles expand on it, but it provides some additional explanation on why our blokes looked cooked by comparison.

All of that, plus their sheer size, some of which is age related. If you look at Dangerfield, Smith, Blicavs, Hawkins - just at the top end - they are all seriously big, experienced bodies with power. Compare those to the very young bodies we had scattered around the park. Even many of our more experienced players are small of stature in comparison to their Geelong equivalents.

There was a moment fairly early in the game when Rowbottom tried to tackle a Geelong player screaming out of defence and he was just swatted away like a rag doll.

I'm not overly distraught about Saturday. Yes, it would have been nice if they'd put up a bit more of a show but that might have meant losing by 50 points rather than 80. Our game was built on pressure and physicality, especially later in the season, and we came up against a side in top nick just too big and strong.

On Sunday afternoon, I shared my hotel lift down to reception with a guy sporting his Geelong colours. After being genuinely gracious and complimentary about our club, he said he reckons that is the best he has ever seen a Geelong team play. And he was old enough to have experienced the rampaging team of 2007-8.

[The Big Cat]

I realise I am likely to be dragged away to an asylum somewhere for suggesting this, but IN HINDSIGHT would we have been better bringing in Callum Sinclair rather that Hayden McLean. I know he was at the end of his career but he played ruck most of the year in the VFL and has kicked the odd bag at AFL level. Geelong ruckman aren't gorillas so he wouldn't have been outmuscled like he would be against the Gawns and Darcys of the world.

[Blood Fever]

All of that, plus their sheer size, some of which is age related. If you look at Dangerfield, Smith, Blicavs, Hawkins - just at the top end - they are all seriously big, experienced bodies with power. Compare those to the very young bodies we had scattered around the park. Even many of our more experienced players are small of stature in comparison to their Geelong equivalents.

There was a moment fairly early in the game when Rowbottom tried to tackle a Geelong player screaming out of defence and he was just swatted away like a rag doll.

I'm not overly distraught about Saturday. Yes, it would have been nice if they'd put up a bit more of a show but that might have meant losing by 50 points rather than 80. Our game was built on pressure and physicality, especially later in the season, and we came up against a side in top nick just too big and strong.

On Sunday afternoon, I shared my hotel lift down to reception with a guy sporting his Geelong colours. After being genuinely gracious and complimentary about our club, he said he reckons that is the best he has ever seen a Geelong team play. And he was old enough to have experienced the rampaging team of 2007-8.

I was at the game and Geelong's performance was almost flawless. Physically imposing and almost error free. They monstered our younger players who then appeared to lose their nerve and never really settled. One saving grace(if that is the right word) is that it should fuel our young group and hopefully drive them to redemption. Also, a few more pre-seasons and more time in the weight room will help.

[barry]

I realise I am likely to be dragged away to an asylum somewhere for suggesting this, but IN HINDSIGHT would we have been better bringing in Callum Sinclair rather that Hayden McLean. I know he was at the end of his career but he played ruck most of the year in the VFL and has kicked the odd bag at AFL level. Geelong ruckman aren't gorillas so he wouldn't have been outmuscled like he would be against the Gawns and Darcys of the world.

The asylum is this way, Mr Cat.

[U.S. Swan]

I realise I am likely to be dragged away to an asylum somewhere for suggesting this, but IN HINDSIGHT would we have been better bringing in Callum Sinclair rather that Hayden McLean. I know he was at the end of his career but he played ruck most of the year in the VFL and has kicked the odd bag at AFL level. Geelong ruckman aren't gorillas so he wouldn't have been outmuscled like he would be against the Gawns and Darcys of the world.

I believe he retired some time ago

[Velour&Ruffles]

Hawthorns premierships were built on a win at all costs attitude, just one of the side effects of that attitude has featured quite prominently in the papers over the last week.
So while I'd love another Swans flag, but I'd hate to win one and have it tainted.

100%

[Velour&Ruffles]

I think Barry is on the mark with his last paragraph. We were clearly not mentally in this ball game from the start. They were simply better prepared and set up perfectly. We were a rabble and never close.

We have some young gun midfielders playing in the 2s that didn’t get much game time & could’ve been useful (just ask TB). We didn’t have a replacement for JPK ready to slot in when needed (for example). We flogged Reid like a dead horse when he (possibly) could’ve been managed? Consistency of the playing group can be a strength - but can also be helpful to blood for some depth when you have a young team.

Our current midfield roster, both current and future, is talented and has many strengths but it is positively Lilliputian by the standards of the best. The guy I regret us missing our on is Lipinski, who did very well for the Pies. Exactly the body we needed. But I haven't done the "Sliding Doors" analysis.

[Mel_C]

4. Deviation from the normal game prep. After the full squad had been involved in every match pre-meeting etc for the entire year, for some weird reason it was decided that the non playing players stay in a different hotel and be completely excluded from the entire prep. Suddenly instead of the team being surrounded by their fellow team mates geeing them up they were put in a bubble with guys like Brett Kirk talking his special brand of crap.

In my view something happened at the coaching/administration level that resulted in the team not preparing properly. They should have maintained their normal approach and positions except with a focus on playing hard, winning the contests and making the opposition hurt.

Hmm I wasn't aware of this. Why would they change how they prepare for the game? Were the coaches scarred by the previous GF losses and wanted to try something different? It seems strange that they would deviate from what has worked all season.

[TheBloods]

What did we think of Gulden playing the sweeper deep in defence ?

[rb4x]

I realise I am likely to be dragged away to an asylum somewhere for suggesting this, but IN HINDSIGHT would we have been better bringing in Callum Sinclair rather that Hayden McLean. I know he was at the end of his career but he played ruck most of the year in the VFL and has kicked the odd bag at AFL level. Geelong ruckman aren't gorillas so he wouldn't have been outmuscled like he would be against the Gawns and Darcys of the world.

I thought of that the moment Ladhams was suspended and don't believe we could have gone any worse. Hickey stank and had zero support from a crippled Reid. Would have been a nice way to send of Sinkers.

[Nico]

The stats say we won the clearances but that of course doesn't tell the full story. The last comment in the AFL.com.au live timeline was the most telling for me.



There are clearances, and then there are clean clearances. I lost count of the number of times Dangerfield, Blicavs, Selwood, Atkins, Guthrie and co. would have the time and space coming out of the stoppage whereas the Swans clearances were scrappy and often under pressure. I posted earlier how the Cats set up so well to block for Dangerfield, I wonder if we will employ similar tactics to assist Warner next year.

I have wondered many times how they decide one side gets the centre clearance. Is it the first side to touch the footy or is it the side that progresses the ball a centimeter in its favour. There is no way we had one more centre clearance. We only got the pill into our forward 50 on 32 occasions. All of what you said Ugg is consistent for us for the whole season. I have said for years now that most of our centre clearances are scrappy kicks or errant hand passess. Oh for a Paul Kelly type. Our mids helped Geelong to open space for Dangerfield by playing behind their opponents at centre bounces. With the 666, 17 clubs have adapted to that advantage, but not us.

Why didn't Hickey ruck goal side of Hawkins, and where was his opponent Tom McCartin? You could see Blakey in the background raise his arms in dismay after Hawkin's second goal.

[ugg]

This is Champion Data’s definition of a clearance

Clearance: Credited to the player who has the first effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger kick that clears the stoppage area.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say most of our centre clearances are scrappy kicks. But I do wonder of those that are not scrappy, what percentage were the result of a planned move, and what were basically down to luck?

[Ludwig]

Too much emphasis is placed on winning a premiership. It's a condition that's created by just about everyone in the AFL industry, and rolls over to other pro sports as well.

For the AFL, it means you end up with one success story and 17 failures, with the oddity that the 2nd best team is burdened with the most scarring from being better than 16 other teams, but not getting it together on the big stage for the final game of the year.

Geelong put a unique group of players together in a way that other clubs have rejected. It all worked out and came together this year. They were magnificent. They were far and away the best team in 2022. Their list build is so unusual, that I doubt any other club should bother trying to replicate it.

There is a lot to learn for the Swans, the players and even more so the coaches, who have the responsibility to the get group going on a positive note in 2023 and figure out how to better prepare the players from game to game separated by different training schedules. There were lots of other lessons I hope the experience Longmire can take away from this game and improve the weak aspects of his coaching.

I don't see any reason for the Swans to abandon the system that has taken us to the 2nd best team in the league in such a short time. I don't see a need for major changes in personnel, although we do need to replenish our KPP stocks. Our current group is quite capable of playing some exhilarating football together that just needs more time to practice and execute more precisely.

It would be must unfair to compare out group of players to Geelong. It was a one off mauling from a magnificent team. We just need to put the GF behind us and continue along the path we've been taking. I hope we do that and put up an even better show in 2023.

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Our was wasn't one of them.

[Roadrunner]

This is Champion Data’s definition of a clearance



I wouldn’t go so far as to say most of our centre clearances are scrappy kicks. But I do wonder of those that are not scrappy, what percentage were the result of a planned move, and what were basically down to luck?

Don’t know about the stats, but anyone watching the game could see we got monstered at clearances. Sure, big Tom didn’t have a good day but he didn’t receive much help either. Horse admitted they made a mistake picking Sammy and McLean is more of a forward than a ruck. We were simply outgunned-period. Question is: what are we going to do about it. Where do we find someone like Joey? A champion like he has been is rare indeed! We miss you Joey!