Swans VFL 2023

[707]

I know the injury list is long but it's worrying the reserves are going so poorly, constant losing is not a good environment for players to develop.

Seems almost no one is knocking on the senior selection door. Second year players playing worse than they did last year as new recruits with only part of a preseason under their belts.

[neilfws]

60-57 Frankston, quite an exciting finish there with goals from Warner and Hall-Kahan but just couldn't get another one through.

They threw Gould forward near the end and his big kicks into the 50 were useful. I thought McAndrew and Shipley went alright from the little I saw.

[troyjones2525]

I know the injury list is long but it's worrying the reserves are going so poorly, constant losing is not a good environment for players to develop.

Seems almost no one is knocking on the senior selection door. Second year players playing worse than they did last year as new recruits with only part of a preseason under their belts.

100% agree. Said this a couple of weeks ago. There is little to no pressure coming from the reserves. The best player today by a mile was Dylan Stephens who is obviously a regular senior player dropped for poor form. HHK kicked 3 but other than that there isn't a lot to look forward to TBH.

Our recent draft picks are looking extremely average, not counting Konstanty just yet as he is just starting, but geez if he fails as ANOTHER speculative first round pick questions might need to be asked of our recruiters.

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[dejavoodoo44]

60-57 Frankston, quite an exciting finish there with goals from Warner and Hall-Kahan but just couldn't get another one through.

They threw Gould forward near the end and his big kicks into the 50 were useful. I thought McAndrew and Shipley went alright from the little I saw.

Yes, the attempted comeback made the last quarter enjoyable, and saved me from writing a somewhat bitter post about missed targets and missed shots. Although obviously that cost us in the end.

On individuals, Hickey and McAndrew were good in the ruck, and probably would have been more influential if we had some genuine inside mids, instead of outside mids having a go. Shipley seemed the only one generally reading their taps. Although Stephens did have a good second half and I suspect that the coaches would have been happy with his nine tackles. I also thought that young Endemann did well when given a chance in the middle. He battled hard and had a few classy moves.

Gould was his usual combative self in defence. Melican had a pretty good return from injury, while Rankin had one of his better games.

On the forward line, Hall-Kahan was the only one to make the most of his chances. Magor and Haley did a few good things, but both were wasteful, while Hickey was reasonably effective when moved forward.

Overall I thought it was a pretty good effort, which was marred by a fair bit of ineffective ball use, but hopefully that will improve as the season progresses.

[Ludwig]

Agree with your summary, deja.

It took a while to look dangerous, but Stephens motoring out of stoppages finally got us going. Our goal kicking accuracy was AFL level awful.

Gould plays well, but also has a higher error level than we would want for an AFL player. HHK has a big impact for the amount of footy he gets. Plays like an AFL player.

Will Edwards made 2 costly turnovers late in the game.

We don't seem to have any sort of system for attacking. Spacing is poor and we just kick to contests and hope for the best. Hard to say how to fix it.

IIRC, Caleb Mitchell went off in a game a few weeks ago and hasn't been heard from since. It wouldn't be normal for the Swans NOT to have a mystery player. He looked the best of the newbies in the early going.

[707]

Caleb Mitchell, not on the injury list and not playing either. We've seen this before, has to be on one of those two lists

[MattW]

...

I'm interested to see who plays better, Stoddart or Stephens.

So where did you end up on this?

[AB Swannie]

List management is such a complicated issue. Players like James Bell, Ben Ronke, Colin O'Riordan, Lewis Taylor were never going to be a part of our next premiership AFL side so were let go. I agreed with this. However, they were terrific players for our reserves providing a hard edge allowing youngsters to develop. In hindsiight, I think we've got the balance wrong - you need the hardened veteran in your list.

[Ludwig]

So where did you end up on this?

I thought Stoddart was better in the first half and Stephens in the 2nd half. so it turned out to be a close call. I'll give the nod to Stoddart, because he was playing on the outside and had to work harder for his possessions.

If I had to take only one of the players to be on our list, I would choose Stoddart.

[wolftone57]

Were Kostanty, Vickery, Owen and Edwards on managed time or injured during the match? If not their stats are worrying for listed players.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

What would that prove in a game at VFL level?

I think there is also a position differential. Riley is a HB and Dylan is a winger, inside mid.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Blood Fever]

I thought Stoddart was better in the first half and Stephens in the 2nd half. so it turned out to be a close call. I'll give the nod to Stoddart, because he was playing on the outside and had to work harder for his possessions.

If I had to take only one of the players to be on our list, I would choose Stoddart.

Stephens has shown he belongs in the heat of an AFL finals series when in form. Stoddart has played one??? game, maybe a handful. Are you pulling our leg Ludwig?

[troyjones2525]

Were Kostanty, Vickery, Owen and Edwards on managed time or injured during the match? If not their stats are worrying for listed players.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

I don't think so. Maybe Konstanty was, but either way, they all look concerning so far and are having little to nil impact in the VFL.

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[liz]

I didn't think the "contest" between Stephens and Stoddart was remotely close.

Stoddart played across half-back in a team with a decently well-organised defensive structure. He found a lot of the ball but, while he didn't shirk contests, most of his possessions were uncontested (at least on the eye, whatever the official stats say). He looks to have grown into a good VFL player, with the obvious change since he left us being that he has put on some size. I know he's being talked about as a mid-season draft chance. He might be able to adapt to the change of pace at AFL level and play a handful of games in a similar role. But there was nothing about his game yesterday (and I acknowledge it was just one game) that suggested he's far too good for VFL level.

Put Stephens in that role in a similarly well-organised VFL team and he could have played it with his eyes shut.

There is no way you could put Stoddart in the role that Stephens played yesterday, or in the AFL wing role (which is very different to what he played yesterday) and expect him to cope. Not at the moment, anyway.

I know Stephens has started the year slowly, and we all want more from him. Who knows if it's a confidence thing, a workrate thing, a symptom of playing in a team that hasn't quite come together (yet) this season, or something else altogether. His game yesterday was far from perfect but it was high energy and he was clearly the best player on the Swans' team, almost certainly the best player on the ground from either side. Unless we thrash the Pies this afternoon and it is impossible to drop anyone, I expect he'll be back in the seniors next week and I hope that outing will prove to be the spark to get him playing better at senior level.

That was the first VFL game I've seen this year (and I've watched all but one, I think) where there was sufficient effort and intensity across the team and across most of the game to get a handle on what this team is about. So in that respect it was their best performance but it also laid stark the limitations of how they are playing. I don't know if the style reflects a lack of cohesion amongst the players, if it's a style they've developed because of the obvious limitations of available players, or it the coach thinks it's actually a productive style to play. Very little run through the midfield. No running to receive handballs to get the ball to a spot where it's possible to actually target a kick at a forward.

And it doesn't help that there are four guys in the team who, essentially, can't kick. Not that they are inconsistent kicks, or sometimes pick one off that they shouldn't, or sometimes fluff them. More than they just throw the ball on the boot and it follows some random trajectory, usually closer to the opposition than a team mate. And with three of those players stationed across half back, transitioning the ball smoothly from one end of the ground to the other is nigh on impossible.

And then there's the forward line. I get that three of the listed players are first years, and that the method of delivery forward is far from ideal, but if the ball is just going to get honked forward like that, to stand any chance of marking it, or being in the general vicinity when the ball hits the ground, do you reckon they might actually turn and watch the ball in flight, and try to fight for body position, rather than keep their eyes on all the defenders around, or just gaze at the ground?

My final gripe is what turned out to be the last five minutes. Not the last thirty seconds. But minutes and minutes of playing time. Right from the point HHK kicked his third goal, and the team was within an optimistically straight kick of taking the lead, they played like this was the last thrust forward and they had to just get the ball into the forward line as quickly as possible and take hail Mary shots on goal (like Gould from the boundary line, when a centering kick was the way to go). Watching the game, I guess everyone assumed they did just have a few seconds left to scrounge a score. But they actually had more forays forward in that eternally long "final few seconds" than for most of the first half. (OK, an exaggeration, but only a small one.) Surely someone on the bench - right there - was telling the players they actually had a few minutes to show some craft, some skill, some calm creativity???

Or did the time clock just get stuck?

[Scottee]

I didn't think the "contest" between Stephens and Stoddart was remotely close.

Stoddart played across half-back in a team with a decently well-organised defensive structure. He found a lot of the ball but, while he didn't shirk contests, most of his possessions were uncontested (at least on the eye, whatever the official stats say). He looks to have grown into a good VFL player, with the obvious change since he left us being that he has put on some size. I know he's being talked about as a mid-season draft chance. He might be able to adapt to the change of pace at AFL level and play a handful of games in a similar role. But there was nothing about his game yesterday (and I acknowledge it was just one game) that suggested he's far too good for VFL level.

Put Stephens in that role in a similarly well-organised VFL team and he could have played it with his eyes shut.

There is no way you could put Stoddart in the role that Stephens played yesterday, or in the AFL wing role (which is very different to what he played yesterday) and expect him to cope. Not at the moment, anyway.

I know Stephens has started the year slowly, and we all want more from him. Who knows if it's a confidence thing, a workrate thing, a symptom of playing in a team that hasn't quite come together (yet) this season, or something else altogether. His game yesterday was far from perfect but it was high energy and he was clearly the best player on the Swans' team, almost certainly the best player on the ground from either side. Unless we thrash the Pies this afternoon and it is impossible to drop anyone, I expect he'll be back in the seniors next week and I hope that outing will prove to be the spark to get him playing better at senior level.

That was the first VFL game I've seen this year (and I've watched all but one, I think) where there was sufficient effort and intensity across the team and across most of the game to get a handle on what this team is about. So in that respect it was their best performance but it also laid stark the limitations of how they are playing. I don't know if the style reflects a lack of cohesion amongst the players, if it's a style they've developed because of the obvious limitations of available players, or it the coach thinks it's actually a productive style to play. Very little run through the midfield. No running to receive handballs to get the ball to a spot where it's possible to actually target a kick at a forward.

And it doesn't help that there are four guys in the team who, essentially, can't kick. Not that they are inconsistent kicks, or sometimes pick one off that they shouldn't, or sometimes fluff them. More than they just throw the ball on the boot and it follows some random trajectory, usually closer to the opposition than a team mate. And with three of those players stationed across half back, transitioning the ball smoothly from one end of the ground to the other is nigh on impossible.

And then there's the forward line. I get that three of the listed players are first years, and that the method of delivery forward is far from ideal, but if the ball is just going to get honked forward like that, to stand any chance of marking it, or being in the general vicinity when the ball hits the ground, do you reckon they might actually turn and watch the ball in flight, and try to fight for body position, rather than keep their eyes on all the defenders around, or just gaze at the ground?

My final gripe is what turned out to be the last five minutes. Not the last thirty seconds. But minutes and minutes of playing time. Right from the point HHK kicked his third goal, and the team was within an optimistically straight kick of taking the lead, they played like this was the last thrust forward and they had to just get the ball into the forward line as quickly as possible and take hail Mary shots on goal (like Gould from the boundary line, when a centering kick was the way to go). Watching the game, I guess everyone assumed they did just have a few seconds left to scrounge a score. But they actually had more forays forward in that eternally long "final few seconds" than for most of the first half. (OK, an exaggeration, but only a small one.) Surely someone on the bench - right there - was telling the players they actually had a few minutes to show some craft, some skill, some calm creativity???

Or did the time clock just get stuck?

Gee Liz, is that a rant? You too?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk