Swans VFL 2023

[liz]

Gee Liz, is that a rant? You too?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

It wasn't intended as a rant. Or what I think of as a rant. I didn't feel in "rant mode" when I wrote it. But if that's how it reads, apologies.

I just thought that was a game we coulda, shoulda won. And we didn't.

[Ludwig]

I didn't think the "contest" between Stephens and Stoddart was remotely close.

Stoddart played across half-back in a team with a decently well-organised defensive structure. He found a lot of the ball but, while he didn't shirk contests, most of his possessions were uncontested (at least on the eye, whatever the official stats say). He looks to have grown into a good VFL player, with the obvious change since he left us being that he has put on some size. I know he's being talked about as a mid-season draft chance. He might be able to adapt to the change of pace at AFL level and play a handful of games in a similar role. But there was nothing about his game yesterday (and I acknowledge it was just one game) that suggested he's far too good for VFL level.

Put Stephens in that role in a similarly well-organised VFL team and he could have played it with his eyes shut.

There is no way you could put Stoddart in the role that Stephens played yesterday, or in the AFL wing role (which is very different to what he played yesterday) and expect him to cope. Not at the moment, anyway.

I know Stephens has started the year slowly, and we all want more from him. Who knows if it's a confidence thing, a workrate thing, a symptom of playing in a team that hasn't quite come together (yet) this season, or something else altogether. His game yesterday was far from perfect but it was high energy and he was clearly the best player on the Swans' team, almost certainly the best player on the ground from either side. Unless we thrash the Pies this afternoon and it is impossible to drop anyone, I expect he'll be back in the seniors next week and I hope that outing will prove to be the spark to get him playing better at senior level.

That was the first VFL game I've seen this year (and I've watched all but one, I think) where there was sufficient effort and intensity across the team and across most of the game to get a handle on what this team is about. So in that respect it was their best performance but it also laid stark the limitations of how they are playing. I don't know if the style reflects a lack of cohesion amongst the players, if it's a style they've developed because of the obvious limitations of available players, or it the coach thinks it's actually a productive style to play. Very little run through the midfield. No running to receive handballs to get the ball to a spot where it's possible to actually target a kick at a forward.

And it doesn't help that there are four guys in the team who, essentially, can't kick. Not that they are inconsistent kicks, or sometimes pick one off that they shouldn't, or sometimes fluff them. More than they just throw the ball on the boot and it follows some random trajectory, usually closer to the opposition than a team mate. And with three of those players stationed across half back, transitioning the ball smoothly from one end of the ground to the other is nigh on impossible.

And then there's the forward line. I get that three of the listed players are first years, and that the method of delivery forward is far from ideal, but if the ball is just going to get honked forward like that, to stand any chance of marking it, or being in the general vicinity when the ball hits the ground, do you reckon they might actually turn and watch the ball in flight, and try to fight for body position, rather than keep their eyes on all the defenders around, or just gaze at the ground?

My final gripe is what turned out to be the last five minutes. Not the last thirty seconds. But minutes and minutes of playing time. Right from the point HHK kicked his third goal, and the team was within an optimistically straight kick of taking the lead, they played like this was the last thrust forward and they had to just get the ball into the forward line as quickly as possible and take hail Mary shots on goal (like Gould from the boundary line, when a centering kick was the way to go). Watching the game, I guess everyone assumed they did just have a few seconds left to scrounge a score. But they actually had more forays forward in that eternally long "final few seconds" than for most of the first half. (OK, an exaggeration, but only a small one.) Surely someone on the bench - right there - was telling the players they actually had a few minutes to show some craft, some skill, some calm creativity???

Or did the time clock just get stuck?

Even though I raised the subject of comparing Stoddart and Stephens, It was done half in jest. I was disappointed that we cut Stoddart. I thought he played okay.

As for Stephens, our side had 76 hitouts, and the ball was coming to Stephens' lap all day. I thought he was the spark for our 2nd half revival, as meager as it was. He ran the ball out of the contest and drove it forward, which was about the only decent offence we generated.

It was a good idea playing Stephens on ball in the VFL in order to get him more active. He has a good skill set, but he's not a good decision maker. I think that's what's holding him back.

Hall-Kahan is a smart player with good vision. I would have him in our AFL side before Stephens.

I'm not at all against Stephens. He's going at the same sort of pace the Florent was and we see what a great player Ollie has become. I suspect something similar will happen with Stephens.

[Scottee]

It wasn't intended as a rant. Or what I think of as a rant. I didn't feel in "rant mode" when I wrote it. But if that's how it reads, apologies.I just thought that was a game we coulda, shoulda won. And we didn't.

Definitely shoulda.

[MattW]

...

He has a good skill set, but he's not a good decision maker. I think that's what's holding him back.

Hall-Kahan is a smart player with good vision. I would have him in our AFL side before Stephens.
...

Yeah, I agree with your assessment of Stephens. He plays best when on instinct. He can run out a game, which is a valuable commodity for us at the moment.

Perhaps HHK will come in for Sheather; Marc was playing forward.

[wolftone57]

I don't think so. Maybe Konstanty was, but either way, they all look concerning so far and are having little to nil impact in the VFL.

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

That bodes badly. But I wonder if that is the coaching. I do not think this coach is an improvement on Jeremy. I am worried we made a huge mistake. Why not get Tadhg to come back? Surely our recruiters can't have gotten it this wrong. All of this year's recruits under 10 disposals and 3 under 5. @@@@.?

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[crackedactor 01]

That bodes badly. But I wonder if that is the coaching. I do not think this coach is an improvement on Jeremy. I am worried we made a huge mistake. Why not get Tadhg to come back? Surely our recruiters can't have gotten it this wrong. All of this year's recruits under 10 disposals and 3 under 5. @@@@.?

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

Agree. There are worrying signs of where our VFL side is heading in the way of nurturing players and preparing them for AFL football if good enough. Jordan Dawson was an ordinary player in the reserves for a good period and now he is one of the best defenders in the league.

[liz]

Agree. There are worrying signs of where our VFL side is heading in the way of nurturing players and preparing them for AFL football if good enough. Jordan Dawson was an ordinary player in the reserves for a good period and now he is one of the best defenders in the league.

I don't think you can apply anything happening to our VFL team this year and draw inferences to past years. Dawson took a little time to develop, full stop. But he dominated NEAFL level for a couple of seasons before establishing himself in our senior team.

Last year - a year where we had minimal injuries - we finished in the top four at the end of the VFL home and away. (Yes, we did go out in straight sets, but we came up against the dominant Casey Demons and then the surging Suns, with an extended AFL senior list due to their concessions).

The injuries - especially to taller players - have definitely played their part this season. We've typically had around half the team comprise listed players and the other half VFL squad or young development players. Even in the weaker Canberra league and then NEAFL competition, 12-13 listed players was typically the threshold between struggling and dominating.

I have reservations about the style the team is playing, but it's hard to know how much of this is coaching (ie what they are being told to do) and how much is down to the availability and mix of players. We have been short and young in almost every game compared to the opposition, notwithstanding the fitness advantage some of our players should have over VFL-listed opposition players. That fitness advantage probably won't have kicked in yet for the first year players.

[Kafka's Ghost]

I don't think you can apply anything happening to our VFL team this year and draw inferences to past years. Dawson took a little time to develop, full stop. But he dominated NEAFL level for a couple of seasons before establishing himself in our senior team.

Last year - a year where we had minimal injuries - we finished in the top four at the end of the VFL home and away. (Yes, we did go out in straight sets, but we came up against the dominant Casey Demons and then the surging Suns, with an extended AFL senior list due to their concessions).

The injuries - especially to taller players - have definitely played their part this season. We've typically had around half the team comprise listed players and the other half VFL squad or young development players. Even in the weaker Canberra league and then NEAFL competition, 12-13 listed players was typically the threshold between struggling and dominating.

I have reservations about the style the team is playing, but it's hard to know how much of this is coaching (ie what they are being told to do) and how much is down to the availability and mix of players. We have been short and young in almost every game compared to the opposition, notwithstanding the fitness advantage some of our players should have over VFL-listed opposition players. That fitness advantage probably won't have kicked in yet for the first year players.

Spot on Liz. Last year we had McLean and Amartey effectively providing a dominant forward line at VFL level, as Franklin and Reid were playing well in the seniors. We all know where we’re at this year. The one I really feel for is Amartey, who was just beginning to show what he’s capable of at senior level.


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[707]

HHK is a natural forward AND can kick straight? No brainer to come in this week, we need that.

Thanks to those that have provided extended commentary and opinion on VFL games.

Right now, the decision to draft Sheldrick the pick (18) before Van Rooyen (19) is not looking the correct one, albeit both careers are only in their second season. A KPF we need, it seems an inside mid we don't.

[Captain]

Our 3 draftees from the 2022 draft are so far pretty disappointing. Can't get a kick in the VFL.

[liz]

Our 3 draftees from the 2022 draft are so far pretty disappointing. Can't get a kick in the VFL.

We drafted six players in 2022.

Of those in the National Draft, Mitchell has been out injured for most of the season to date. Konstanty has just come back from an injury that robbed him of the second half of his pre-season. Only Vickery has been a constant. I'd be playing Vickery further up the ground, encouraging him to run past the more inside mids to provide a handball option. Especially with those who seem more as "wing-designated" players at senior level (Stephens this weekend, Warner, Roberts when playing) tend to play onball at VFL level. He could provide some structure and width in the middle of the ground and it would get him into the game more. I suspect the thinking is that he was drafted with "small defender" in mind so they may be trying to give him some experience there. But while our team is so undermanned, he tends to get a bit stuck down in a pocket.

Owen was drafted as a ruckman but with Hickey and McAndrew in the team, he's getting very little opportunity to ruck. He's playing "lone beanpole up forward", which can't be easy with the way the ball is delivered. But even allowing for that, it's fair to say he's not having great impact in that role. But he's years away from where he might eventually get to.

Edwards isn't going to rack up the numbers playing as a tall defender. He was improved this week on his statue-like performance of a fortnight ago. He got to more contests and made some timely spoils. He even took a couple of intercept marks late in the game but sadly let himself down by kicking the ball back to the opposition.

Magor is very lightly built at the moment and he looks like he's finding the step up from SANFL U18s quite steep. That said, he upped his work rate in the second half on Saturday and was quite impressive buzzing around. Unfortunately he fluffed most of the chances he had, but it was encouraging that he was getting to the right spot.

[Ludwig]

It's a shame about Mitchell's disappearance. This sort of stuff used to happen a lot in Argentina, but isn't all that common in Australia. He was playing quite well. Maybe that's the reason he was disappeared.

Magor has looked good at times, but needs to do more than just cameo appearances. His skill level is fine.

Vickery played on the wing in the previous game and did quite well. Sometimes it takes a half season for these rookies to get going.

[Captain]

We drafted six players in 2022.

Of those in the National Draft, Mitchell has been out injured for most of the season to date. Konstanty has just come back from an injury that robbed him of the second half of his pre-season. Only Vickery has been a constant. I'd be playing Vickery further up the ground, encouraging him to run past the more inside mids to provide a handball option. Especially with those who seem more as "wing-designated" players at senior level (Stephens this weekend, Warner, Roberts when playing) tend to play onball at VFL level. He could provide some structure and width in the middle of the ground and it would get him into the game more. I suspect the thinking is that he was drafted with "small defender" in mind so they may be trying to give him some experience there. But while our team is so undermanned, he tends to get a bit stuck down in a pocket.

Owen was drafted as a ruckman but with Hickey and McAndrew in the team, he's getting very little opportunity to ruck. He's playing "lone beanpole up forward", which can't be easy with the way the ball is delivered. But even allowing for that, it's fair to say he's not having great impact in that role. But he's years away from where he might eventually get to.

Edwards isn't going to rack up the numbers playing as a tall defender. He was improved this week on his statue-like performance of a fortnight ago. He got to more contests and made some timely spoils. He even took a couple of intercept marks late in the game but sadly let himself down by kicking the ball back to the opposition.

Magor is very lightly built at the moment and he looks like he's finding the step up from SANFL U18s quite steep. That said, he upped his work rate in the second half on Saturday and was quite impressive buzzing around. Unfortunately he fluffed most of the chances he had, but it was encouraging that he was getting to the right spot.

My reference was the national draft. The 3 picks from it, at this stage, all look like failures.

Konstanty might have been injured, but he is back now and literally can't get a kick in the VFL at the moment.

Can have all the excuses in the world, but the picks aren't looking good.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I too liked the look of Vickery much, much more when he was allowed out of the back pocket - sweet skills.

[i'm-uninformed2]

My reference was the national draft. The 3 picks from it, at this stage, all look like failures.

Konstanty might have been injured, but he is back now and literally can't get a kick in the VFL at the moment.

Can have all the excuses in the world, but the picks aren't looking good.

We expect waaaaaaaaay too much of first year draftees, particularly ones like Konstanty who had no pre-season.

For point of comparison, I went and looked at the 2020 draft. Of the top 20:

* Less than half are playing regular seniors in their third year
* Four or five are still battling real growing pains and regularly out injured as their bodies adjust to the rigour of an AFL club environment
* There's probably only three or four who are making a real difference to their sides yet.

Players who make a big impact in their first year are an absolute exception. It's year three or four where you can start to judge them properly, as the conditioning and hardening takes effect.