Our Clubs History Is Embarrassing

[Diego]

Originally posted by peterh_oz
No Diego that is not true. I am sick of "lets just make the 8". Most of us are. And that attitude was changed by the club about 2-3yrs ago.

Sure, it WAS the attitude, as they felt that being "up there" each year was better for long-term survival that taking a step back, rebuilding then going for the big one. They didn't think they'd survive the rebuild. Probably correct at the time.

Now they CAN survive a rebuild. They ARE going for the top. Brisbane won 3 of the last 4 flags. How many pre-seasons did they win?

It is rare for a March champion to be competitive past April. StKilda last year were an anomoly.

People complain that the season is too long, and expect a mid-season slump at some stage. No-one can peak for 7 months. Yet you want them to win everything from mid Feb to Sept?

I'm GLAD they don't care about the Wizard Cup. It goes to show that "anything" isn't good enough. They want a flag. Only. Not a March Cup. Not 8th. Not 2nd. Isn't that what you want?

Diego, Beaussie, and the others seem to be contradicting theselves: "I don't want mediocraty yet any win will do. Any silverware. Don't come 2nd, yet be happy winning 2nd-best".

Good on ya Roos - you have my FULL support. I don't agree with everything you do - I'm human just like you. But winning in March? WHO CARES. If March was important then why do we not say "hey we won back in 1982".? Because it doesn't count!.

I rest my case.

Good luck when we don't win a flag for the next 5 years. Seriously I cannot see us even going near anytime soon.

All i am saying is it would be nice to at least feel that sense of victory for once in anything. I don't care if its the chook raffle cup..something. ANYTHING FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!

Most of you don't understand and are in deep denial.

[Diego]

Originally posted by liz
Last year we opened the season proper by pushing the reigning premiers all the way at the Gabba and then with three solid wins. All that after a first round drubbing in the first round of the Wiz Cup.

So what exactly is the correlation between performance in the Wiz Cup and early success in the season proper?

We did well didnt we come sept against the pre season champs..oh yes we did.

[Diego]

Originally posted by cruiser
I cant imagine their supporters carrying on like you two. At least leave it til the real stuff starts at the end of March.

hahahaha

Brisbane 3 flags in a row in the past 5 years...

Swans 1933

Can you see why they wouldnt give a stuff?

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Hilly
Well piss off then. Our club doesnt need people like u hanging around with nothing but negative things to say.

Typical comment from a "support the club with never a negative word" swans fan.
The Swans do not understand that being a stand alone club in the greatest city in the land does not guarantee them anything.
They must produce the spoils of war.
I do not count our history since 1933 as South Melbourne as shamefull. Nor even as our history.
But our history since 1982 as the SYDNEY Swans is more than shameful!
It is an extraordinary token of the good will provided by the city of Sydney toward Australian football, that a large body of people can be drawn to Swans games, along with the atendant constant publicity provided for them.
All the Swans have given us is ready access to the glories of the game of Aussie Rules Football.
They are living off those inherent glories, without any kind of actual or at least tangible success.
The Swans give the Sydney press and public nothing to root for, other than the superiority of a sporting code which has traditionally been foreign to them; along with regular appearances and then quick dissapearances within the finals system of that footballing code.
With a second Sydney team, any sense of self satisfaction derived from merely weathering the storms of existence as a foreign footballing code in Australia's largest city would quickly evaporate, and a truer understanding of desperation for premiership glory would be its replacement.
For the Swans own sake I say bring on the Western Sydney Bulldogs. !!!! (Or even better a team created out of some footballing body that already exists whithin in the confines of western Sydney).

[SXP]

i'm not sure if Iwould agree with you, footyhead, on the subject of having a second club in Sydney giving the Swans more competition in the Harbour City.
First argument against it is that running a club in Sydney where AFL is still perceived to by a "foreign" code, is very expensive. You really need a sound business case to justify existence of two clubs.
Second argument is the Brisbane Lions. They didn't need second club to win 3 flags in a row. Brisbane managed to win the flag with arrival of Leigh Matthews who managed to change club's attitude towards final goal. I strongly believe it was his doing.

What Swans need to do was covered in past postings from smart recruiting to changing their attitude towards ultimate goal. My opinion is that the Swans will have to win flag soon if the AFL wants to stay competitive with other codes in Sydney.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Re: Re: Re: Our Clubs History Is Embarrassing

Originally posted by Beaussie
Back to the pre-season, we don't deserve to have any supporters at the ground or watching on TV as our coach/team clearly doesn't give a ****. Why then should we as fans give a ****. Supporting this club ****ing drives me crazy.

That was the reason why I didn't fly down yesterday.

If the coaching staff aren't going to see it as a competitive match, neither will I. I certainly was glad not to have travelled down for that one.

I like us to win EVERY match we played. Even despite the kids we had on display yesterday, I found the footy we played exceptionally frustrating at times. Our small group at the Sydney Aussie Rules club were tearing our hair out.

Personally I think there should be more of a compromise with us playing the Wizard Cup. Sure play a few of the kids, but not ALL of them. I'd like to think we aim to win every match we play in.

It is still far easier to win a Wizard Cup than the normal Premiership. Considering that the 1982 Night Flag is all we have to cheer about since 1933, I'd love us to go for it.

JF

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Diego
You don't get the point he is making, thats the problem with the majority of you on RWO. You think anything negative about the swans is an instant attack on the club.

Let me ask you, when you done the red and the white, do you feel proud that our last flag was 1933?

Or does this not matter?

I agree with you Diego.

Good post young man!

JF

[footyhead]

Originally posted by SXP
i'm not sure if Iwould agree with you, footyhead, on the subject of having a second club in Sydney giving the Swans more competition in the Harbour City.
First argument against it is that running a club in Sydney where AFL is still perceived to by a "foreign" code, is very expensive. You really need a sound business case to justify existence of two clubs.
Second argument is the Brisbane Lions. They didn't need second club to win 3 flags in a row. Brisbane managed to win the flag with arrival of Leigh Matthews who managed to change club's attitude towards final goal. I strongly believe it was his doing.

What Swans need to do was covered in past postings from smart recruiting to changing their attitude towards ultimate goal. My opinion is that the Swans will have to win flag soon if the AFL wants to stay competitive with other codes in Sydney.

Exactly why the AFL would be stupid not to instal a second team :
The Swans have proved themselves to be quite good at drawing up a buisness plan and exsisting within the harbour city but not exceling.
They they have shown little stomach for the required faith in genius that wins AFL premiership flags.
It will help the Swans not hinder them.
Cross town rivalry always builds passion.
Left to their own devises, the Swans will probably always exist up here, but they are looking more and more like they could go a long long time to being close but having no cigar.
What actually has to happen in the Sydney culture needs to be able to enter into and alter the Victorian culture so that football can truely become national.

[Captain]

I think part of our problem since we have been in Sydney is the lack of local players. We need a club that embraces all of NSW/ACT and encourages interstate rivalry.

We have had player retention problems in the past - Rocca, Grant etc. This was due to poor recruiting. Look at this example.

There are two players. One from NSW, the other from interstate. The interstate player is slightly in front on talent, can run 3km quicker by 20 seconds and can jump 4cm higher. Who would you choose? I would choose the NSW player anyday. The NSW player would be more loyal and have a passion to represent the Swans and his state. Paul Kelly is a perfect example.

This is something we haven't previously done and hence choose Fosdike instead of Lenny Hayes. Fosdike was deemed to marginally be the better junior footballer, hence we choose him.

I'm not advocating that we draft NSW players exclusively, as a weak local comp often means that in most instances there are a lack of players available. It's when they ARE available that we should pounce on them.

I'm very encouraged by the fact we are starting to recruit local players - McVeigh, LRT, Potter, Clarke etc. It's a start, but we need more.

West Coast, Adelaide and Port have all had success at recruiting local players. Of course their local comps are far stronger, however there have been many a time where they went with a local player over a more fancied interstater.

I believe all of this is a good start to really create a team that the players are passionate about and make them hungry for success. Paul Kelly wasn't the most talented player, but if we had a team of 22 blokes with his guts, determination and a love of the jumper than our premiership drought would have been broken long ago.

[Diego]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
I agree with you Diego.

Good post young man!

JF

Jules me and you both know what if feels like to support a club that wins championships and we know how it feels when even a irrelavent cup is won. Walking around for a day or two feeling proud and alive, thinking my team is the best team in the world.
The times I was happy when Boca juniors won even the summer championship in the early 90's or even when Parramatta or the raiders for your sake were winning the NRL how proud it felt.

It seems a lot of blood supporters haven?t experienced that. Anything will do...I want to walk into the club and see at least a few trophies in our very bare cabinet. I want to show my relos when they visit from overseas that I follow a team who has achieved a few things in my lifetime.

I can't even give my partner grief about Collingwood winning 1 flag in the past 50 years as she replies with "at least I was there when we won in 1990"

I think Paul Roos should start taking everything seriously and this excuse about players being injured and recovering from pre season surgery is crap. I mean they have nearly 6 months to recover and yet they break down during the season anyway.

What I saw yesterday in terms of our pups was pathetic. The errors and the lack of depth worries me as much as some of the experts on here say some of them played well. Most of that team would get thrashed by stronger opposition.

Also by winning at least the pre season cup it generates confidence amongst supporters, the club and the team. Not to mention bringing an extra 5000 members to the games and the club.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by footyhead
For the Swans own sake I say bring on the Western Sydney Bulldogs. !!!! (Or even better a team created out of some footballing body that already exists whithin in the confines of western Sydney).

I can see where you are going Footyhead. As indeed the inclusion of Port Adelaide in the AFL was the thing that snapped the once-apathetic Adelaide Crows players into being a serious football club with a team who hurt enough after losing to Port in the first Showdown into a team hungry for victory over everything else. But Sydney is not Adelaide. And AFL footy especially in Western Sydney still is highly highly peripheral to the hearts and minds of pretty much everyone.

But as has been seen with the Swans, you can't change a club's culture overnight. The club had the culture of mere survival at the Lake. For much of its time in sydney, its culture has not been much more advanced from that. Sure we do nowaday appear to be showing signs of stepping away from this culture. And this attitude of just aiming to "survive" or "be there abouts".

I don't think you should be jumping down the "great" Beaussie's throat like many of you are. His attitude is of somebody who wants more. Wants to be hard-nosed about winning the flag. and is desperate for the taste of victory. If that is the attitude that will help force this club forward, and into progessively changing its "near enough is good enough" culture, then great.

I was at the Sydney Aussie Rules Club last Grand Final day. Whilst I was happy with Port's win, and Beaussie was musing over the sudden death of the game its its new Queensland heartland , there were several Swans members and supporters saying "When are we going to win one? And why aren't we winning flags now?" I see this as a sign of a club starting to mature and find a sense of itself. That people are hungry for more than what we have had to put up with. And are unhappy when success doesn't come.

Because when we win, the great Beaussie will be terrorising Leagueunlimited to the point that EA and Iggy Plop will be cowering into submission. And running from being pointed out their ultimate doom by the Great Man.

I actually think that Brycey wants to win a flag to stick it up those leaguies on LU. Because yet again he, and the Swans, will be copping crap from that lot for yesterday's result.

GO KILL EM BRYCEY!

JF

PS:- Go to http://www.talkingfooty.tk for more of Beaussie and his colourful antics. This is a forum made BY Beaussie for BEAUSSIE! The thread about wanting locusts to destroy all the farmers' crops is particularly funny. Beaussie at his very best, not!

[Diego]

Originally posted by Captain
I think part of our problem since we have been in Sydney is the lack of local players. We need a club that embraces all of NSW/ACT and encourages interstate rivalry.

We have had player retention problems in the past - Rocca, Grant etc. This was due to poor recruiting. Look at this example.

There are two players. One from NSW, the other from interstate. The interstate player is slightly in front on talent, can run 3km quicker by 20 seconds and can jump 4cm higher. Who would you choose? I would choose the NSW player anyday. The NSW player would be more loyal and have a passion to represent the Swans and his state. Paul Kelly is a perfect example.

This is something we haven't previously done and hence choose Fosdike instead of Lenny Hayes. Fosdike was deemed to marginally be the better junior footballer, hence we choose him.

I'm not advocating that we draft NSW players exclusively, as a weak local comp often means that in most instances there are a lack of players available. It's when they ARE available that we should pounce on them.

I'm very encouraged by the fact we are starting to recruit local players - McVeigh, LRT, Potter, Clarke etc. It's a start, but we need more.

West Coast, Adelaide and Port have all had success at recruiting local players. Of course their local comps are far stronger, however there have been many a time where they went with a local player over a more fancied interstater.

I believe all of this is a good start to really create a team that the players are passionate about and make them hungry for success. Paul Kelly wasn't the most talented player, but if we had a team of 22 blokes with his guts, determination and a love of the jumper than our premiership drought would have been broken long ago.

We have adressed this issue havent we by making players feel at home at the swans and making them want to stay at the club.

Part of the problem is Sydney is such a non afl city and will be for many years to come, the players do not feel the heat from the media, the supporters and anyone else. They feel they can stuff up and then hide for a few days and it all will go away.

I hope the tele and SMH stop writing feel good stories about the players and instead get stuck right into them this season to remind them what the real deal.

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Captain

..... Who would you choose? I would choose the NSW player anyday. The NSW player would be more loyal and have a passion to represent the Swans and his state.

Also if we get more Sydney kids playing AFL for the Swans, when they finish up they tend to still be involved in Football in Sydney, thereby attracting more Sydney kids into the game.
The big problem in Sydney though is getting the game into the schools and the AFL should spend a lot of money lobbying the NSW Gov to make some form of AFL mandatory for school kids. It is after all the number 1 sport in the land and it was invented in Australia !

[Captain]

Originally posted by Diego
We have adressed this issue havent we by making players feel at home at the swans and making them want to stay at the club.

We have adressed the issue of retaining players. My point is in order for us to break our premiership drought, we need players who would play for the Swans for free because the love the club so much.

Throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at a player, making him feel at home and giving him great facilities is good. However it doesn't drive a burning desire to succeed.

The entire Aussie cricket team would play for free because they love representing their country. As would a state of origin player in League.

Aussie Rules in unique in that club representation is the most important. I want our players to have the similar passion to those teams I mentioned above.

[footyhead]

!!

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG

.... And AFL footy especially in Western Sydney still is highly highly peripheral to the hearts and minds of pretty much everyone.

But as has been seen with the Swans, you can't change a club's culture overnight. The club had the culture of mere survival at the Lake. For much of its time in sydney, its culture has not been much more advanced from that. Sure we do nowaday appear to be showing signs of stepping away from this culture. And this attitude of just aiming to "survive" or "be there abouts".

Well you can't prove that something would work, but we know for sure with hind site that Sydney as a city would have about 10 000 times less interest in AFL if the Swans did not come here in 1982.
I say the same goes for western Sydney. Build it they will come.
Even the AFL is seeing this in their figure from people regularly visiting Stadium Australia. Ron Eevens said so in the press last week.
As to your other point that the culture of the club is changing! How so ??

The culture of the Swans is not changing and that is the problem.
Close enough is still good enough in Swans land!!!

@@@@ we are all baring up now cos something just happend that should have been done years ago... We got some half way decent recruits, while making full use of the Rookie list and making sure we got more than 3 Sydney kids in there as well.
The Swans are a very conservativly run and scared intitution, and that translates to their on field performance.
They don't seem very Sydney to me.
So lets get a team of real western subers battlers happening. In fact lets call them the Battlers!!

Footyhead, please do not post potentially damaging comments on RWO unless you have proof that you are willing to share - swansrock4eva